How Similar Would an Alien Intelligence be to Ours?

[Twilight Hue]

Consider....
Humans with detectable technology have existed for less than 10K years.
But given the age of all the planets capable of supporting life, it's likely that
other critters with technology would've achieved it within a window of a few
billions of years previous.
Now, take their head start on us (in years)....subtract the time it takes for
light to travel from there to here....& the result is how far advanced (relative
to us) they'd appear to be. I wonder what the signature for infinite
improbability drive would be?

That could be assuming that an asteroid didn't hit their home planet, a black hole didn't engulf them, or their star or stars didn't expand and go supernova , they didn't create a greenhouse effect on the planet*, amongst anything else that could happen.

I mean look at how many Extinction events happened since our planet was formed.

*Had to throw that in for all the climate alarmists out there.

 

[Revoltingest]

That could be assuming that an asteroid didn't hit their home planet, a black hole didn't engulf them, or their star or stars didn't expand and go supernova , they didn't create a greenhouse effect on the planet*, amongst anything else that could happen.

I mean look at how many Extinction events happened since our planet was formed.

*Had to throw that in for all the climate alarmists out there.

It's a safe assumption that not every civilization is destroyed by asteroids, black holes or GW.
Consider the frequency those things happen on Earth.

 

[Valjean]

Did the squirrel buy the land to build its nest on? Did it get planning permission for its design from the local government? Did it get an architect to design it according to its idea of a good nest, buy building materials to make it out of and hire people to construct it? And pay for all of this out of the money it had, which it earned from having a salary from a job?

Basically: Was civilisation required to build the squirrel's nest?

I'd say not.

Human made habitation happens within the context of a civilisation whereas animal habitation happens because of instinct

A squirrel and its nest exist in a state of nature

A human and their dwelling exist in a state of being civilised

Define "civilized, please." You're using it in an odd way.

 

[Eddi]

Define "civilized, please." You're using it in an odd way.

Gladly

To quote trusty old Wikipedia, a civilisation is:

any complex society characterised by urban development, social stratification imposed by a cultural elite, symbolic systems of communication (for example, witting systems), and a perceived separation from and domination over the natural environment

A civilised society is politically and economically organised, as opposed to personally organised

This can be contrasted to a "state of nature"

Basically:

Civilised = complex society - characterised by diversity and competing interests, politically organised
State of Nature = tribe - characterised by uniformity and a single collective interest - personally organised

A tribe is how homo sapiens organise in a state of nature

Families are similar to tribes, indeed I'd say that tribes are familial in nature (?)

 

[We Never Know]

How similar would an alien intelligence* be to our intelligence?

PLEASE NOTE: Answers along the lines of "we cannot know" etc are of course true. They are also -- as any reasonably intelligent alien would presumably know -- dull, boorish, obvious, and unimaginative. Please do not pollute this thread with such boring answers.



......
My own thoughts on this are that we would have more in common with an alien who evolved in an environment similar to ours than we would have in common with an alien who evolved in a dissimilar environment to ours.

For instance, I think anything approaching a sensible answer to the question would necessarily begin by first taking into account the life-form's external environment. For instance, did it evolve to live in social groups? Did it evolve to live as a surface creature like us? Did it evolve on a rocky world like us? e.g. we are a social species whose brain grew (relatively) huge primarily in order to deal with our living in larger and larger social groups.

Second, I think a sensible answer would take into account the natural means that the life-form has at its disposal with which to manipulate its environment. e.g. we have opposable thumbs, among other means of manipulating our environment. Our form of intelligence is most likely to some extent shaped by that fact -- by the fact we use our opposable thumbs to manipulate our environment.

And then of course, there would be other factors worth taking into account....


______________________________
*For the purposes of this thread, "intelligence" can be defined as "the effectiveness with which a life-form is able to interact with its external environment in order to realize its goals".

_____________________________
And now...

Other factors could be is it carbon based, does it need oxygen, how does it reproduce(diversity), etc., how long has it been in existence(billions of years ahead), the possibilities could be anything.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is actually a really great answer to the question. Look especially at the statement "they would still have to overcome many of the same challenges we do." That leads you directly to evolution, and the pressures that govern it.

A nice argument, Shadow Wolf.

@Sunstone and I had a conversation about the OP, and the way he put was a way that, to me, seemed obvious but yet hidden from sight. We spend so much time thinking how they would be different that we don't think of how they would be the same, and in some ways it's inescapable they will be similar because the same laws of science will apply to them, as should the same principles that guide biology and evolution (though I would be equally shocked, stunned, and utterly stupefied to learn they "grew up" under different biological principles as I would laws of science). And if this species evolves under similar conditions as earth, their intelligence and technology will depend on the fundamentals of who and what they are. We have opposable thumbs, but basically no fur. So this shapes our world view (how many other animals even remotely come close to displaying some sort of concept or behavioral reactions towards nakedness?) and our intelligence. The physics are the same, but their biological anatomy likely will not.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Civilised = complex society - characterised by diversity and competing interests, politically organised

That all applies to primate troupes.

 

[Eddi]

That all applies to primate troupes.

I don't think it does...

You don't get liberal and conservative factions in a troupe of primates - no identity politics either, e.g. there is no LGBTQ lobby in a primate troupe, and they don't form associations or political parties

You don't get competing interests, either, all they do is live off the land, they don't have any boss/employee conflicts, theirs is a classless society - they are basically living the communist dream - there is no concept of possessions or private property

I'd say there's no diversity or competing interests in a troupe of primates either, or even in a hunter-gatherer tribe of humans

Hunter-gatherer tribes are socially homogenous and communistic in how they are organised - as opposed to socially diverse and with competing interests, which require a degree of political organisation

 

[ChristineM]

How similar would an alien intelligence* be to our intelligence?

PLEASE NOTE: Answers along the lines of "we cannot know" etc are of course true. They are also -- as any reasonably intelligent alien would presumably know -- dull, boorish, obvious, and unimaginative. Please do not pollute this thread with such boring answers.



......
My own thoughts on this are that we would have more in common with an alien who evolved in an environment similar to ours than we would have in common with an alien who evolved in a dissimilar environment to ours.

For instance, I think anything approaching a sensible answer to the question would necessarily begin by first taking into account the life-form's external environment. For instance, did it evolve to live in social groups? Did it evolve to live as a surface creature like us? Did it evolve on a rocky world like us? e.g. we are a social species whose brain grew (relatively) huge primarily in order to deal with our living in larger and larger social groups.

Second, I think a sensible answer would take into account the natural means that the life-form has at its disposal with which to manipulate its environment. e.g. we have opposable thumbs, among other means of manipulating our environment. Our form of intelligence is most likely to some extent shaped by that fact -- by the fact we use our opposable thumbs to manipulate our environment.

And then of course, there would be other factors worth taking into account....


______________________________
*For the purposes of this thread, "intelligence" can be defined as "the effectiveness with which a life-form is able to interact with its external environment in order to realize its goals".

_____________________________
And now...

Considering the earth is full of creatures that evolved in essentially the same global environment and every one of them shows intelligence in some degree yet none can reasonably be compared to another in the intelligence stakes. Even different creatures living in precisely the same local environment show difference in several aspects.

I very much doubt if alien would be comparable to human in anything but the most rudimentary way.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think it does...

Your thinking it doesn't has no bearing on fact. Primate troupes are organized and hierarchical.

You don't get liberal and conservative factions in a troupe of primates - no identity politics either, e.g. there is no LGBTQ lobby in a primate troupe, and they don't form associations or political parties

We as human haven't had those things until pretty recently. Even our ideas of homosexual and heterosexual themselves are both new concepts for our species.

I'd say there's no diversity or competing interests in a troupe of primates either, or even in a hunter-gatherer tribe of humans

Resources and mates are very common. Even in non-primate, non-social species. Food alone will make almost any hungry animal fight.

 

[Eddi]

Your thinking it doesn't has no bearing on fact. Primate troupes are organized and hierarchical.

We as human haven't had those things until pretty recently. Even our ideas of homosexual and heterosexual themselves are both new concepts for our species.

Resources and mates are very common. Even in non-primate, non-social species. Food alone will make almost any hungry animal fight.

I'm willing to concede that how primates organise themselves is similar to how civilised humans do, in some respects

But I stand by my assertion that they are not civilised and are living in a state of nature, like our hunter-gatherer human ancestors did

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm willing to concede that how primates organise themselves is similar to how civilised humans do, in some respects

But I stand by my assertion that they are not civilised and are living in a state of nature, like our hunter-gatherer human ancestors did

Pretty much just about every anthropologist out there would say hunter-gatherers were/are encultured and civilized.

 

[dfnj]

How similar would an alien intelligence* be to our intelligence?

PLEASE NOTE: Answers along the lines of "we cannot know" etc are of course true. They are also -- as any reasonably intelligent alien would presumably know -- dull, boorish, obvious, and unimaginative. Please do not pollute this thread with such boring answers.
My own thoughts on this are that we would have more in common with an alien who evolved in an environment similar to ours than we would have in common with an alien who evolved in a dissimilar environment to ours.
For instance, I think anything approaching a sensible answer to the question would necessarily begin by first taking into account the life-form's external environment. For instance, did it evolve to live in social groups? Did it evolve to live as a surface creature like us? Did it evolve on a rocky world like us? e.g. we are a social species whose brain grew (relatively) huge primarily in order to deal with our living in larger and larger social groups.

Assume the Universe has a purpose. And that purpose is evolution. And purpose of evolution is to produce ever more complex lifeforms that experience the Universe in ever increasing deeper and more interesting ways. We are the Universe's way of experiencing itself. Our consciousness questioning existence and thinking about God is an expression of how a result of evolution creates a particular way to appreciate God.

I think we can assume there are extraterrestrial lifeforms that exist that are millions of years perhaps billions of year more advanced than we are in terms of evolution and how they would appreciate God and existence. Just like I can imagine some lifeforms would use a different liquid for blood that remains a liquid at much lower or higher temperatures, and just like I can imagine lifeforms that have metabolisms not bases on processing sugar for energy, I can also imagine extraterrestrial lifeforms with many more additional senses over reality experiencing reality a much deeper and profound way that is beyond what I am capable of imagining.

Regardless of our depth of perception and experience of God's created existence, I would imagine our extraterrestrial friends would have to deal with the four great existential questions:

1. Who am I?
2. Why am I here?
3. What does it all mean?
4. What is going to happen to me when I die?

I think these four essentially unaswerable questions we would have in common and a common ground of conversation.

I found this really great video on the Fermi paradox and reasons why we do not experience a Universe teeming with extraterrestrial life:

 

[Valjean]

Pretty much just about every anthropologist out there would say hunter-gatherers were/are encultured and civilized.

Nope.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nope.

They were organized with clearly know leaders, socially organized, they had social rituals, customs, and traditions, and we do have evidence of art.

 

[Milton Platt]

How similar would an alien intelligence* be to our intelligence?

PLEASE NOTE: Answers along the lines of "we cannot know" etc are of course true. They are also -- as any reasonably intelligent alien would presumably know -- dull, boorish, obvious, and unimaginative. Please do not pollute this thread with such boring answers.



......
My own thoughts on this are that we would have more in common with an alien who evolved in an environment similar to ours than we would have in common with an alien who evolved in a dissimilar environment to ours.

For instance, I think anything approaching a sensible answer to the question would necessarily begin by first taking into account the life-form's external environment. For instance, did it evolve to live in social groups? Did it evolve to live as a surface creature like us? Did it evolve on a rocky world like us? e.g. we are a social species whose brain grew (relatively) huge primarily in order to deal with our living in larger and larger social groups.

Second, I think a sensible answer would take into account the natural means that the life-form has at its disposal with which to manipulate its environment. e.g. we have opposable thumbs, among other means of manipulating our environment. Our form of intelligence is most likely to some extent shaped by that fact -- by the fact we use our opposable thumbs to manipulate our environment.

And then of course, there would be other factors worth taking into account....


______________________________
*For the purposes of this thread, "intelligence" can be defined as "the effectiveness with which a life-form is able to interact with its external environment in order to realize its goals".

_____________________________
And now...

I would posit that an alien life form would possibly have evolved in an environment that was also completely beyond our own understanding, that all bets are off on guessing anything about it at all.

 

[Valjean]

They were organized with clearly know leaders, socially organized, they had social rituals, customs, and traditions, and we do have evidence of art.

Did they have a division of labor, a ruling class, religious specialists, a writing system, monumental architecture?

 

[night912]

I've met and know some aliens from a different country that have similar level of intelligence as me.

 

[Valjean]

Proof of Life: How Would We Recognise an Alien If We Saw One? - Aeon - Pocket