How the chickens learned the need to sit on it's eggs ?

[LuisDantas]

I don't believe that for a moment.

And yet it is quite true.

That's a dodge and weave Luis.

No, it actually is insistence in being honest.

This game of pretending that your sense of being doesn't exist is utterly disingenuous.

Maybe it does exist. I simply don't know what you mean by "sense of being", and therefore won't casually say that it does exist.

The fact that you disown your experience of self-awareness because scientism is bullying you is lamentable, but also symptomatic of the post-modern scientific atheist syndrome - which denies the foundation of person, the sense of being, on the grounds that it is not scientifically testable !

Is that even a fact, though?

You are assuming a huge lot about me, based in just a few words that are of questionable clarity in the best of days.

Extraordinary. Without scientific confirmation, you cannot acknowledge your sense of existence !

I have strong suspicion that people's sense of existence, if it is at all universal, varies a lot among people.

I will not tell you that I have whatever you believe it to be, though, because I can't do so in good faith. I have neither a good idea of what you mean with that expression, nor means to tell whether I have it.

Would you rather have me lying to you?

That's as pernicious as any religious superstition or dogma in my book. Even worse - religion is about claiming belief in something you don't experience, whereas this is denying something you do experience because science has no theory for it.

So I am a pernicious liar because I don't know what you are talking about?

Really?

 

[FearGod]

That may be the truth. Or it may be an illusion of some kind. How would I know?

Jump from a high mountain and in the mid way,you may realize if it is illusion or not.

If you say so. I can't say that, though. For me it is an inescrutable concept.

But for me it is easy and obvious to be observed.

There are people who swear to be rabbits or vampires.

i didn't see such insane people except in terror movies only.

 

[Shia Islam]

How the evolutionist explain how the chicken acquired the knowledge that it needs to sit on the eggs for fertilizing ?

Does knowledge also acquired by random mutation and natural selection.

Are you assuming that evolution is against the Islamic teachings?

 

[Aquitaine]

Are you assuming that evolution is against the Islamic teachings?

I assume that is the case. Honestly I'm quite suprised at how there appears to be a large divide between Muslims who believe TOE is "part of" or "compatible" with Islam, and those who reject TOE altogether. But hey, atleast it shows diversity of thought.

 

[Alceste]

I have no interest in discussing your whims regarding how you believe the synapse of the human mind operates. The two are not reconcilable.

Things that are not testable do not exist "in the eyes of science" because they cannot be reasoned or observed. Whatever it is you believe in and whether or not you believe we have a soul means absolutely nothing to me.

Unless you have reasonable evidence in support other than "experience" then don't bother.

Please refrain from incorrectly using the word belief. There is nothing regarding science that is a belief. It's simply an observation of factual evidence that is available. I disregard anyone with the opinion that anything scientific or within the scientific method involves a belief.

You're not completely correct, there. Scientists don't dismiss what they cannot explain or deny that or exists. They seek understanding. I've yet to meet any scientist who isn't excited by a mystery.

Not having worked out a testable hypothesis to explain the origin or nature of sapience yet does not indicate we never will.

 

[Alceste]

Now I have a mystic and a 'scientist' (scientism-ist ?) both shooting me down because -

The mystic can't grasp that - "This experience is not evidence of the correctness of any proposition with which it may be associated."

And the scientism-ist can't accept the fact that a sense of presence is inexplicable, and somehow characterises me as religious because if I "ain't for him then I must be agin him."

It's almost funny.

It is funny! I completely understand and agree with you. I also respect your keen ability to find a position that neither side of the boring, bog standard argument can agree with. Well played!

 

[FearGod]

Are you assuming that evolution is against the Islamic teachings?

No, i understand evolution to be started from the simpler life to the more complex till the creation of ADAM PBUH but all progress from previous forms to the newest one are all planned and designed by god and not as evolutionists understand it to be as a consequence of random mutations and natural selection.

Say: Journey in the land, then behold how He originated creation; then God causes the second growth to grow; God is powerful over everything, (29:20)

 

[Alceste]

No, i understand evolution to be started from the simpler life to the more complex till the creation of ADAM PBUH but all progress from previous forms to the newest one are all planned and designed by god and not as evolutionists understand it to be as a consequence of random mutations and natural selection.

Say: Journey in the land, then behold how He originated creation; then God causes the second growth to grow; God is powerful over everything, (29:20)

If this is the case, then why have the majority of species that have ever existed died out? Was that part of God's plan?

 

[WyattDerp]

behold how He originated creation

Oh yeah! Behold how that happened billions of years ago!

No, actually... just read it in a book, and then substitute that for actually having seen what it describes.

And then go pwn the theory of evolution with this razor sharp logic.

 

[FearGod]

If this is the case, then why have the majority of species that have ever existed died out? Was that part of God's plan?

Of course that was his plan,then what we have to find by travelling through the earth other than finding the fossils and evidences for the extincted creations.

God had destroyed a complete human generation and they were the descended of LOT and they were completely extincted.

Also god destroyed the descended of NOH.

So yes god can destroy a whole generation if he wish and he indeed did.

Of course that looks to you as a myth but to me it is the truth.

 

[Alceste]

Of course that was his plan,then what we have to find by travelling through the earth other than finding the fossils and evidences for the extincted creations.

God had destroyed a complete human generation and they were the descended of LOT and they were completely extincted.

Also god destroyed the descended of NOH.

So yes god can destroy a whole generation if he wish and he indeed did.

Of course that looks to you as a myth but to me it is the truth.

Eh. OK. I suppose I was given a very different impression of the nature of God in the church I grew up with. The Christian God is meant to be all-knowing, all-loving, and all-powerful. It simply is not consistent with the arbitrarily destructive deity you describe.

OTOH, I never thought such a being actually existed either way, and it's totally irrelevant to the subject of evolution.

 

[FearGod]

Eh. OK. I suppose I was given a very different impression of the nature of God in the church I grew up with. The Christian God is meant to be all-knowing, all-loving, and all-powerful. It simply is not consistent with the arbitrarily destructive deity you describe.

OTOH, I never thought such a being actually existed either way, and it's totally irrelevant to the subject of evolution.

One of his 99 names is The Distressor, The Harmer, The Afflictor,
so yes god can destroy and can harm but in the church god is the father and he loves his children.

i think this will be off-topic,so back to the eggs.

 

[Alceste]

One of his 99 names is The Distressor, The Harmer, The Afflictor,
so yes god can destroy and can harm but in the church god is the father and he loves his children.

i think this will be off-topic,so back to the eggs.

I believe we already explained the eggs for you, and we've moved through several other randomly selected attributes and settled on murder.

 

[FearGod]

I believe we already explained the eggs for you, and we've moved through several other randomly selected attributes and settled on murder.

Just kidding .

 

[sunni56]

Are you assuming that evolution is against the Islamic teachings?

The theory of evolution as understood by scientists, is without a shadow of a doubt, incompatible with Islam and the Qur'anic account of genesis. The maximum that a Muslim can go is to believe that all living things have evolved exactly as described by the theory of evolution with the SOLE exception of human beings. That's basically the furthest a Muslim can go. And to be honest, we believe in God's miracles anyway, so it is not difficult to believe that God created Adam at the most perfect time to fit in with the environment around him.

 

[Alceste]

The theory of evolution as understood by scientists, is without a shadow of a doubt, incompatible with Islam and the Qur'anic account of genesis. The maximum that a Muslim can go is to believe that all living things have evolved exactly as described by the theory of evolution with the SOLE exception of human beings. That's basically the furthest a Muslim can go. And to be honest, we believe in God's miracles anyway, so it is not difficult to believe that God created Adam at the most perfect time to fit in with the environment around him.

So, despite having established a perfectly suitable mechanism (evolution) for generating practically any imaginable form of life over millions of years from basic raw materials and natural laws, God still had to wave a magic wand to create humans suddenly, out of nothing?

Why?

 

[sunni56]

So, despite having established a perfectly suitable mechanism (evolution) for generating practically any imaginable form of life over millions of years from basic raw materials and natural laws, God still had to wave a magic wand to create humans suddenly, out of nothing?

Why?

"magic wand"? "out of nothing"? I don't respond to such ridiculous insinuations. And as for asking "why?", it is pretty clear that I am not God, so I wouldn't know the answer to that. Also your initial assumption is without basis.

 

[Falvlun]

That may be the truth. Or it may be an illusion of some kind. How would I know?

Even if it is an illusion there must be something to which that illusion is happening.

 

[darkendless]

Actually, if you read the posts , you will find that you and Chinu initiated the personal insults.

Check for yourself.

As I said -

there is nothing more aggravating to fundamentalists than that one simple fact of life - we don't know anything about our sense of existence. Nothing at all.

Except that we do have this inexplicable sense of existence. This presence.

It's the "inexplicable" which is upsetting you both. Scary stuff ! LOL

I don't have an explanation. Neither do you.

Why are you so distressed about that ? That is a question which could stand a little of your attention IMO.

I did not, the discussion was purely factual until you began throwing around insults as I was not receptive to your ideals and philosophy.

 

[Alceste]

"magic wand"? "out of nothing"? I don't respond to such ridiculous insinuations. And as for asking "why?", it is pretty clear that I am not God, so I wouldn't know the answer to that. Also your initial assumption is without basis.

What process did God use to make humans, then, if not magic? What did he make them from, if not nothing?

Could he not have made them from their less complex / less fit ancestors, the same way he made every other life form on earth?