How the Poor and Working Class Can Finally Break the Democratic Party.

[Stevicus]

The poor and working class don't owe the Democrats loyalty. The Democrats seem more interested in cultural issues than in the poor and working class. The only reason they vote Democratic is because under the Republicans things would be worse for them. It's like voting for the parent who neglects you over the parent who will abuse you in a custody battle. It's sad and unjust.

Liberal Democrats really don't like the poor or working class. They look down on the working class who they believe are uneducated because most of the poor and working class do not have a higher education. They think the poor and the working class are a distasteful nuisance that they would rather not be bothered with because the poor and working are low class scum to the liberal elites. The would rather focus on cultural and identity issues and just give lip service and false promises to the poor and working class to get their votes while doing nothing for them and instead choose to focus on cultural and identity issues.

Over and over again in every election cycle it is a choice between being neglected by the Democrats or being abused and neglected by the Republicans. We traditionally vote for the lesser of two evils like it is someting normal - like something we deserve. But things can change.

How? Voter's Unions. Threaten to vote in blocs. The creation of nonpartisan community based and lead voter's unions focus solely on economic issues would crush the Democrats and their hypocrisy. People engaged in identity politics already understand the power of collective action and voting as a bloc to achieve specific goals. The principle behind a Voter's Union isn't new; it's about applying the same strategy more broadly to include the economic and social issues that affect the poor and working class. This way we turn the tables against them and take the spotlight for the worker! No longer will we be ignored, no longer will we accept their crumbs, no longer will we sacrifice our economic well being for the sake of others who look down upon us. It's time that our issues get addressed. Issues that have been long been neglected. Issues such as:

1. Affordable Housing: We're drowning in high rents and ****ty living conditions.
2. Healthcare Access: We’re buried under medical bills and lack decent insurance.
3, Wages and Job Security: We’re working our asses off for peanuts and can’t even rely on our jobs.
4. Education: Our kids are stuck in crappy schools while we’re buried in student debt.
5. Transportation: Public transit is a joke and getting to work costs a fortune.
6. Food Security: We’re struggling to put healthy food on the table.
7. Utilities: The costs of keeping the lights on and staying warm are sky-high.
8. Childcare: Finding affordable, quality childcare feels like a goddamn miracle.
9. Social Services: Unemployment benefits and disability support are a cruel joke.
10. Debt Relief: We’re suffocating under personal debt and being preyed upon by lenders.
11. Workplace Rights: Our jobs are unsafe, we get no paid leave, and unions are a distant dream.
12. Crime and Safety: We’re exposed to crime with nothing but empty promises of protection.
13. Mental Health Services: Affordable mental health care is practically nonexistent.
15. Environmental Issues: Pollution and unsafe living conditions are a daily reality.
16. Legal Aid: We can’t afford legal help when we need it most.
17. Economic Inequality: The wealth gap is growing while we get left further behind.
18. Public Safety: We deal with police violence and inadequate emergency services.

We keep them focus on our needs and don't let them get distracted on issues that csn't feed us. Will keep a political scorecard like the NRA does to show how politicians align with our concerns. It might even make republicans align more closely to us in order to win our votes. We will be a nonpartisan voter's Union. It constitutes a threat to the Democratic status quo. We need to stop their neglect and lip service and force them to work for us - the worker.


View attachment 95197

This is a good summary of the issues our politicians should focus on. I've been saying something similar to this for quite some time, and I've noticed that some Democrats seem to agree, while others seem to not care as much about the economy or working people (or seem to take a more Reagan/Greenspan-influenced viewpoint on economics, which has been disastrous for America).

As others have pointed out, America's economic demise was originally the Republicans' idea, but when Clinton dragged reluctant Democrats kicking and screaming into the NAFTA camp, both parties were pretty much the same at that point.

It's not really a Democratic vs. Republican issue as much as it's recognizing the failed policies and bad decisions made by previous administrations which led America to the problems we're facing nowadays. The apparent problem for most Democrats at present is their inability to recognize that it's the very policies which they've supported for decades which is bolstering the opposition against them and put them in a position where they're just barely hanging on against a candidate who is a convicted criminal.

Democrats refuse to ask themselves the question, "What have we done wrong to cause all of this?" Because they don't think they've done anything wrong. They attribute their current dilemmas to external factors, such as Russian hacking, Fox News, or anything else which allows them to avoid having to take a long hard look at themselves and the failed policies they've embraced. Since 1992, the past 32 years, Democrats have held power for 20 years, nearly 2/3 of that time. They can't go on blaming Republicans or other extremal factors when they've clearly held enough power to make a difference (if they really wanted to make a difference).

 

[Valjean]

Decades ago the Democrat party was noted for real liberals. When I was born liberals like Hubert Humphery defined the party. The greatest liberal in Democrat Party history was perhaps William Jennings Bryant. Today identity politics, woke leftists have replaced liberals with neo-Marxists (aka cultural Marxists, it cannot get more left than that.

How is the Democratic Party Neo-Marxist? What Democratic initiatives are Marxist? What does Marxism mean to you?

It's the Republican Party that obfuscates substantive issues with fear-mongering, identity politics, and purity & propriety issues.
It's not the Democrats who are banning and burning books, promoting evangelical religion, and and spying on citizens.

The Democrats promote social services like the ones listed in Post #19.

loons like AOC and far left Bernie Saunders have nothing in common with the Democrat party of a generation ago.

True -- they are like the Democrats of two generations ago, or the Republicans a generation or two before that.
It's pro-social policies like theirs that created the middle class and the American prosperity we used to have. Republican Neo-Liberalism is rapidly unraveling all that. Many can't even afford a roof over their heads these days.
So how are they loony?

As to 'neo-fascist' in the republican party? maybe 5%? As a libertarian I reject the Republicans based on its chrony-capitalism. All statism is authoritarian and repressive, which party is for ever increasing government taxation? The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.

A government is the only institution large and powerful enough to keeping the rich and powerful from running roughshod over the rights and prosperity of the people -- which is what they will do if not regulated and kept in check. It's the Republicans calling for small, effete government.

Libertarianism? You think that's the solution? Libertarians will promote the peoples' and environment's interests, and prevent exploitation by the corporatists?

OK, since I seem to be posting exemplars of party platforms today, here are some exerpts from the Libertarian Party platform from 1980:
“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”

“We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”

“We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”

“We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”

“We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”

“We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”

“We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”

“We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”

“As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”

“We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”

“We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”

“We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”

“We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”

“We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”

“We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”

“We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”

“We demand the return of America’s railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”

“We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called “self-protection” equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”

“We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”

“We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”

“We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”

“We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”

“We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”

“We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”
=======================================================================================
So, every man for himself, no social services, no safety net, everything privatized and unregulated.

 

[F1fan]

It's called focus. The Democrats need to focus on economic issues that benefit everyone.

Be specific, where should the focus be that isn't being done, and can be done even with republican interferance?

 

[We Never Know]

This is a good summary of the issues our politicians should focus on. I've been saying something similar to this for quite some time, and I've noticed that some Democrats seem to agree, while others seem to not care as much about the economy or working people (or seem to take a more Reagan/Greenspan-influenced viewpoint on economics, which has been disastrous for America).

As others have pointed out, America's economic demise was originally the Republicans' idea, but when Clinton dragged reluctant Democrats kicking and screaming into the NAFTA camp, both parties were pretty much the same at that point.

It's not really a Democratic vs. Republican issue as much as it's recognizing the failed policies and bad decisions made by previous administrations which led America to the problems we're facing nowadays. The apparent problem for most Democrats at present is their inability to recognize that it's the very policies which they've supported for decades which is bolstering the opposition against them and put them in a position where they're just barely hanging on against a candidate who is a convicted criminal.

Democrats refuse to ask themselves the question, "What have we done wrong to cause all of this?" Because they don't think they've done anything wrong. They attribute their current dilemmas to external factors, such as Russian hacking, Fox News, or anything else which allows them to avoid having to take a long hard look at themselves and the failed policies they've embraced. Since 1992, the past 32 years, Democrats have held power for 20 years, nearly 2/3 of that time. They can't go on blaming Republicans or other extremal factors when they've clearly held enough power to make a difference (if they really wanted to make a difference).

For years its been blame the other party. Point the finger. Its not us, its them.

As you said both parties have been in charge enough(had government trifecta) that if they wanted change they could have had change.

We are over $35 trillion in debt because of both parties, not one.

The two parties have became pros at deception. Both sides get richer while the working suffer.
The current the federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour but both parties are all for better wages for everyone. Thank goodness the states stepped up because the federal government didnt.

As long as they keep up their charades and keep the people split, the parties win. And when their party wins, people think they win too. If the people win when their parties win, why are things such mess?

Its like the old magic trick of get people to focus one hand so they don't notice what's the other hand is doing.
The left gets their followers to focus on the right and the right gets their followers to focus on the left.

The people on left think the right will/is destroying everything and the people on right think the left will/is destroying everything.
Both parties are to blame and that will never change as long as people are party blind.

I could go on but there isn't any point. Until people get tired of the lies and charades, the same ole shenanigans will continue and be played during every election cycle.

 

[F1fan]

If you had noticed already just about everything Democrats touch turns into nothing but a bunch of chaos and ends up being a complete mess with things far worse off than ever.

Give us some real examples.

They only know how to destroy things,

Give us examples of this actually happening.

while giving you sweet honey talks about how wonderful the world is going to be with the party and then stab you from behind when you're not looking and putting the blame on other people.

Oh, you mean like democrats wanting to provide affordable health insurance, especially those with existing condition? So you supported all the efforts of republicans to eliminate the ACA because it was bad?

 

[F1fan]

For years its been blame the other party. Point the finger. Its not us, its them.

So what do you want, for no one to point out the flaws in the other's policies and actions?

As you said both parties have been in charge enough(had government trifecta) that if they wanted change they could have had change.

We are over $35 trillion in debt because of both parties, not one.

So your approach is point a finger at both of them, and critized either party doing the same to the other as if the two parties are the same. They aren't. They are both in the same nation, operating according to the same election laws, and same need to raise tons of money, and having to manipulate messaging to appeal to both big money and the base, etc. The political system is a trap that won't change as long as there is one side who gains an advantage for how it works. And if that side wins, they have no motive to change. And whatever side it is they have their own media to manipulate the audience, so good luck getting more than about 50% of the citizens to agree on reform.

The two parties have became pros at deception. Both sides get richer while the working suffer.
The current the federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour but both parties are all for better wages for everyone. Thank goodness the states stepped up because the federal government didnt.

As long as they keep up their charades and keep the people split, the parties win. And when their party wins, people think they win too. If the people win when their parties win, why are things such mess?

Its like the old magic trick of get people to focus one hand so they don't notice what's the other hand is doing.
The left gets their followers to focus on the right and the right gets their followers to focus on the left.

The people on left think the right will/is destroying everything and the people on right think the left will/is destroying everything.
Both parties are to blame and that will never change as long as people are party blind.

I could go on but there isn't any point. Until people get tired of the lies and charades, the same ole shenanigans will continue and be played on every election cycle.

It's all a habit of tradition, and how will any of it change without the voters being informed, and skilled thinkers? There's no chance of any change without the vast majority of citizens wanting it. Would you vote for massive reform, or do you enjoy having this system as something to complain about? I see you complain. I don't see you offer solutions. That suggests to me you just like to complain, not solve the problem.

 

[We Never Know]

So what do you want, for no one to point out the flaws in the other's policies and actions?

People have to see the flaws in both instead of blaming one and being blind to the other.

So your approach is point a finger at both of them, and critized either party doing the same to the other as if the two parties are the same.

People have to acknowledge the flaws in both instead of only blaming one. The problem is a whole, not a half.(both parties, not one).

They aren't. They are both in the same nation, operating according to the same election laws, and same need to raise tons of money, and having to manipulate messaging to appeal to both big money and the base, etc.

We have the worst government money can buy.
Example... Last presidential election cost around $14 billion. People don't throw out that kind of money unless its about profit and control.

The political system is a trap that won't change as long as there is one side who gains an advantage for how it works.

Show me a politician who hasn't gained by how it works.

And if that side wins, they have no motive to change. And whatever side it is they have their own media to manipulate the audience, so good luck getting more than about 50% of the citizens to agree on reform.

Both manipulate the media to their favor and use that to manipulate their followers.

It's all a habit of tradition, and how will any of it change without the voters being informed, and skilled thinkers? There's no chance of any change without the vast majority of citizens wanting it. Would you vote for massive reform, or do you enjoy having this system as something to complain about? I see you complain. I don't see you offer solutions. That suggests to me you just like to complain, not solve the problem.

There isn't a chance of any change until people get their heads out of the parties asses.

As I've said before, term limits on them all for a start. We won't have change with lifer politicians.

Speaking of complaining, do you ever read your own posts?

 

[F1fan]

People have to see the flaws in both instead of blaming one and being blind to the other.

There is a difference between flaws in the system and flaws in a party's policies. As we see the demoocrats are very braod and cover a wide range of interests, and that means less chance for compromise that will pealse the majority. The republicans are very narrow and that means they have an easier time with policy and management of their messaging, even when it is a disturbed guy like Trump and weird like Vance.

People have to acknowledge the flaws in both instead of only blaming one. The problem is a whole, not a half.(both parties, not one).

The flaws are often a result of compromises, so not really a flaw. There can't be a one size fits all policy. To increase taxes on the wealthy to pay for healthcare for the poor will **** of the rich, and the republicans are happy to oppose this policy. Sorry poor folks. It's a moral flaw, but is it a flaw politically? No. Repuiblicans want the power, just like democrats. But the democrats are selected because they have a moral concern for the poor, but they may not have enough support from the masses. Sorry poor folks.

We have they worst government money can buy.

And how can that change? Just more complaints as you offer?

Show me a politician who hasn't gained by how it works.

Because those are the rules they have to follow to compete. Gotta change the rules of the game before the game changes. Don't blame the players.

Both manipulate the media to their favor and use that to manipulate their followers.

Yup, that's part of the game. What do you want to see changed?

There isn't a chance of any change until people get their heads out of the parties asses.

And how do you think that happens? Got any answers, or just complaints?

 

[We Never Know]

There is a difference between flaws in the system and flaws in a party's policies. As we see the demoocrats are very braod and cover a wide range of interests, and that means less chance for compromise that will pealse the majority. The republicans are very narrow and that means they have an easier time with policy and management of their messaging, even when it is a disturbed guy like Trump and weird like Vance.

The flaws are often a result of compromises, so not really a flaw. There can't be a one size fits all policy. To increase taxes on the wealthy to pay for healthcare for the poor will **** of the rich, and the republicans are happy to oppose this policy. Sorry poor folks. It's a moral flaw, but is it a flaw politically? No. Repuiblicans want the power, just like democrats. But the democrats are selected because they have a moral concern for the poor, but they may not have enough support from the masses. Sorry poor folks.

And how can that change? Just more complaints as you offer?

Because those are the rules they have to follow to compete. Gotta change the rules of the game before the game changes. Don't blame the players.

Yup, that's part of the game. What do you want to see changed?

And how do you think that happens? Got any answers, or just complaints?

All I see in this post is..
-Flaws aren't problems.
-Its them not us.
-Excuses and Complaining.

Several months ago I said Trump is old and a narcissist that he belongs on a psych ward and Biden is old and mentally failing that he belongs on a nursing home.

You however would only go on about Trump while continually making excuses for Biden, "he had a cold."
That is a perfect example of party blind.

Well played lol

 

[Stevicus]

For years its been blame the other party. Point the finger. Its not us, its them.

As you said both parties have been in charge enough(had government trifecta) that if they wanted change they could have had change.

We are over $35 trillion in debt because of both parties, not one.

The two parties have became pros at deception. Both sides get richer while the working suffer.
The current the federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour but both parties are all for better wages for everyone. Thank goodness the states stepped up because the federal government didnt.

As long as they keep up their charades and keep the people split, the parties win. And when their party wins, people think they win too. If the people win when their parties win, why are things such mess?

Its like the old magic trick of get people to focus one hand so they don't notice what's the other hand is doing.
The left gets their followers to focus on the right and the right gets their followers to focus on the left.

The people on left think the right will/is destroying everything and the people on right think the left will/is destroying everything.
Both parties are to blame and that will never change as long as people are party blind.

I could go on but there isn't any point. Until people get tired of the lies and charades, the same ole shenanigans will continue and be played during every election cycle.

Some of it is due to maladies within the political culture itself, such as the tendency for voters to make their choices based on fear more than anything else. People don't vote for a candidate or a political party anymore. By and large, their primary goal is to vote against the other candidate/party whom they fear and detest more than the other.

Of course, the other side of that question is why it seems that every election, voters have to choose between the "lesser of two evils," as opposed to the "greater of two goods"? One could argue that it's always been like this to some degree, but it seems that things have degenerated quite a bit.

Technology has made some huge differences. When radio came on the scene, more information could be disseminated to a wider audience than the printed word. Television was also a big game changer - not just in terms of election campaigns, but also in how people perceived the country and the world around them. And then, with the advent of the internet, it's had an even greater effect, especially now that we've had some 30 years to gauge its impact on our culture and politics. The old guard, traditional news outlets appear to be giving way to other more modern incarnations - many of which are branded as "unreliable" or "fake news." Social media also seems to be a double-edged sword, potentially able to reach millions of people - to be used either for disseminating truth or propagating lies (or something in between).

I've also noticed where political debates can sometimes become distractive and direct attention more towards pointless irrelevancies rather than anything that's truly meaningful, instructive, or helpful.

 

[We Never Know]

Some of it is due to maladies within the political culture itself, such as the tendency for voters to make their choices based on fear more than anything else. People don't vote for a candidate or a political party anymore. By and large, their primary goal is to vote against the other candidate/party whom they fear and detest more than the other.

Fear is a great controller. Both sides use it and play it.

Of course, the other side of that question is why it seems that every election, voters have to choose between the "lesser of two evils," as opposed to the "greater of two goods"? One could argue that it's always been like this to some degree, but it seems that things have degenerated quite a bit.

Yep. Didn't used to be that way, or at least not as bad/noticeable.

Technology has made some huge differences. When radio came on the scene, more information could be disseminated to a wider audience than the printed word. Television was also a big game changer - not just in terms of election campaigns, but also in how people perceived the country and the world around them. And then, with the advent of the internet, it's had an even greater effect, especially now that we've had some 30 years to gauge its impact on our culture and politics. The old guard, traditional news outlets appear to be giving way to other more modern incarnations - many of which are branded as "unreliable" or "fake news." Social media also seems to be a double-edged sword, potentially able to reach millions of people - to be used either for disseminating truth or propagating lies (or something in between).

Social media was the icing on the cake. It allows the people, not the MSN, to control the spread of more BS, fake news and fear.

I've also noticed where political debates can sometimes become distractive and direct attention more towards pointless irrelevancies rather than anything that's truly meaningful, instructive, or helpful.

Personal attacks before policies is becoming the norm.

 

[Magic Man]

The poor and working class don't owe the Democrats loyalty. The Democrats seem more interested in cultural issues than in the poor and working class.

They're interested in quite a few things, including helping the poor and working classes. That's why they support unions, higher minimum wage, better protection for jobs, more restrictions on corporations and many other things that benefit the lower classes.

The only reason they vote Democratic is because under the Republicans things would be worse for them. It's like voting for the parent who neglects you over the parent who will abuse you in a custody battle. It's sad and unjust.

It's true that the democratic party isn't ideal for left-leaning people, and it's true that part of the appeal is that republicans are much, much, much worse. Still, democrats, for the most part, are a decent option.

Liberal Democrats really don't like the poor or working class. They look down on the working class who they believe are uneducated because most of the poor and working class do not have a higher education. They think the poor and the working class are a distasteful nuisance that they would rather not be bothered with because the poor and working are low class scum to the liberal elites. The would rather focus on cultural and identity issues and just give lip service and false promises to the poor and working class to get their votes while doing nothing for them and instead choose to focus on cultural and identity issues.

Nope. This is the narrative sold to you by republicans. Liberal democrats work for the poor and working classes, including those in rural areas. They don't sell false hope like "we'll bring coal jobs back" because that's not going to happen. But they do work toward improving the situation for the rural poor and working-class people. They do not look down on them or think they're a distasteful nuisance or any of that other nonsense.

Over and over again in every election cycle it is a choice between being neglected by the Democrats or being abused and neglected by the Republicans. We traditionally vote for the lesser of two evils like it is someting normal - like something we deserve. But things can change.

How? Voter's Unions. Threaten to vote in blocs. The creation of nonpartisan community based and lead voter's unions focus solely on economic issues would crush the Democrats and their hypocrisy. People engaged in identity politics already understand the power of collective action and voting as a bloc to achieve specific goals. The principle behind a Voter's Union isn't new; it's about applying the same strategy more broadly to include the economic and social issues that affect the poor and working class. This way we turn the tables against them and take the spotlight for the worker! No longer will we be ignored, no longer will we accept their crumbs, no longer will we sacrifice our economic well being for the sake of others who look down upon us. It's time that our issues get addressed. Issues that have been long been neglected. Issues such as:

1. Affordable Housing: We're drowning in high rents and ****ty living conditions.
2. Healthcare Access: We’re buried under medical bills and lack decent insurance.
3, Wages and Job Security: We’re working our asses off for peanuts and can’t even rely on our jobs.
4. Education: Our kids are stuck in crappy schools while we’re buried in student debt.
5. Transportation: Public transit is a joke and getting to work costs a fortune.
6. Food Security: We’re struggling to put healthy food on the table.
7. Utilities: The costs of keeping the lights on and staying warm are sky-high.
8. Childcare: Finding affordable, quality childcare feels like a goddamn miracle.
9. Social Services: Unemployment benefits and disability support are a cruel joke.
10. Debt Relief: We’re suffocating under personal debt and being preyed upon by lenders.
11. Workplace Rights: Our jobs are unsafe, we get no paid leave, and unions are a distant dream.
12. Crime and Safety: We’re exposed to crime with nothing but empty promises of protection.
13. Mental Health Services: Affordable mental health care is practically nonexistent.
15. Environmental Issues: Pollution and unsafe living conditions are a daily reality.
16. Legal Aid: We can’t afford legal help when we need it most.
17. Economic Inequality: The wealth gap is growing while we get left further behind.
18. Public Safety: We deal with police violence and inadequate emergency services.

We keep them focus on our needs and don't let them get distracted on issues that csn't feed us. Will keep a political scorecard like the NRA does to show how politicians align with our concerns. It might even make republicans align more closely to us in order to win our votes. We will be a nonpartisan voter's Union. It constitutes a threat to the Democratic status quo. We need to stop their neglect and lip service and force them to work for us - the worker.

The biggest reason democrats don't get more done on these issues is having to deal with republicans. Republicans push everything to the right, and democrats have to compromise with them. They also have to appeal to people who lean to the right in order to get elected or stay in office.

Almost every single thing you listed is something democrats are trying to improve. They just can't do it by magic. They have to work within the bad system we have and work with a populace who is averse to change.

 

[Valjean]

It's not really a Democratic vs. Republican issue as much as it's recognizing the failed policies and bad decisions made by previous administrations which led America to the problems we're facing nowadays. The apparent problem for most Democrats at present is their inability to recognize that it's the very policies which they've supported for decades which is bolstering the opposition against them and put them in a position where they're just barely hanging on against a candidate who is a convicted criminal.

Democrats refuse to ask themselves the question, "What have we done wrong to cause all of this?" Because they don't think they've done anything wrong. They attribute their current dilemmas to external factors, such as Russian hacking, Fox News, or anything else which allows them to avoid having to take a long hard look at themselves and the failed policies they've embraced. Since 1992, the past 32 years, Democrats have held power for 20 years, nearly 2/3 of that time. They can't go on blaming Republicans or other extremal factors when they've clearly held enough power to make a difference (if they really wanted to make a difference).

I agree the American electorate is pretty clueless about politics and history, but between the two parties, I'd bet it's the Democrats who are the more historically 'woke' and seem, in my experience, more likely to be conversant with political history. Their ineffectualness in introducing new bills or bringing them to a vote is, in large part, due to the Corporate funded GOP blocking them.

Republicans often tend to see things as black or white, ignore secondary and tertiary causes and effects, and follow their guts or leaders.
Some even discourage their kids from going to college because they're seen as hotbeds of liberalism, which has become a bad word lately, for some reason.

Q: What are some of these failed policies and bad decisions you mentioned?

 

[Valjean]

Oh, you mean like democrats wanting to provide affordable health insurance, especially those with existing condition? So you supported all the efforts of republicans to eliminate the ACA because it was bad?

I remember how getting "Obamacare" passed was like pulling teeth, with the Republicans predicting all sorts of dire consequences.
And even though it did pass, the Republicans managed to sabotage it by blocking the Risk Corridors, forcing Insurers to raise prices prophylactically.

 

[Magic Man]

This is a good summary of the issues our politicians should focus on. I've been saying something similar to this for quite some time, and I've noticed that some Democrats seem to agree, while others seem to not care as much about the economy or working people (or seem to take a more Reagan/Greenspan-influenced viewpoint on economics, which has been disastrous for America).

As others have pointed out, America's economic demise was originally the Republicans' idea, but when Clinton dragged reluctant Democrats kicking and screaming into the NAFTA camp, both parties were pretty much the same at that point.

I loathe how far to the right democrats have gone to keep trying to appeal to the majority of voters, but both parties have not been "pretty much the same", and they are far, far apart right now.

It's not really a Democratic vs. Republican issue as much as it's recognizing the failed policies and bad decisions made by previous administrations which led America to the problems we're facing nowadays. The apparent problem for most Democrats at present is their inability to recognize that it's the very policies which they've supported for decades which is bolstering the opposition against them and put them in a position where they're just barely hanging on against a candidate who is a convicted criminal.

Democrats refuse to ask themselves the question, "What have we done wrong to cause all of this?" Because they don't think they've done anything wrong. They attribute their current dilemmas to external factors, such as Russian hacking, Fox News, or anything else which allows them to avoid having to take a long hard look at themselves and the failed policies they've embraced. Since 1992, the past 32 years, Democrats have held power for 20 years, nearly 2/3 of that time. They can't go on blaming Republicans or other extremal factors when they've clearly held enough power to make a difference (if they really wanted to make a difference).

1) This is a very broad claim. Saying "democrats refuse..." covers a very large group of diverse people. Some democrats would fall under this, but most wouldn't.

2) Russian interference is a major issue. Putin's goal is to sow division and promote chaos. Their misinformation campaign does just that.

3) Fox News and the whole right-wing outlet sphere is also a huge problem. They do the same job as that Russian misinformation. They're in it for the money, and they know that selling outrage will make them money. They have no problem with pushing false narratives, as long as it appeals to the people who will continue to tune in or click and give them money.

4) You say they've "held power" for 20 years out of 32. You'd need to specify further. What does that mean? Did they have control of the presidency, the House and the Senate that whole time? The good and bad of our system is that there are so many checks and balances. "Holding power" is usually not enough to get stuff done. You'd need to hold more than just one of those things. Even then, the democrats are somewhat diverse, and so they can have significant opposition just within their party. Just look at Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin.

 

[PureX]

It's called focus. The Democrats need to focus on economic issues that benefit everyone.

Why aren't you saying that the republicans need to focus on those? O will tell you why ... because you know full well that they will not. The republicans are party of the rich and of any poor people stupid enough to vote for them. And everyone knows it.

You're angry at the democrats for not saving the middle class FROM the republicans. That makes no sense at all.

 

[Magic Man]

People have to see the flaws in both instead of blaming one and being blind to the other.

People have to acknowledge the flaws in both instead of only blaming one. The problem is a whole, not a half.(both parties, not one).

We have the worst government money can buy.
Example... Last presidential election cost around $14 billion. People don't throw out that kind of money unless its about profit and control.



Show me a politician who hasn't gained by how it works.

Both manipulate the media to their favor and use that to manipulate their followers.


There isn't a chance of any change until people get their heads out of the parties asses.

As I've said before, term limits on them all for a start. We won't have change with lifer politicians.

Speaking of complaining, do you ever read your own posts?

This "both sides"ism is one of the biggest reasons for the mess we're in. Making it seem like both parties are equally bad and equally guilty of all of this stuff gives people the impression that the extremism on the right is just par for the course and nothing to get outraged about. It allows the right to keep pushing farther and farther in that direction, because it's all "just typical politics".

It's true that democrats are far from perfect, and that they sometimes engage in "typical politics". Some of them get rich through politics. Some manipulate the media and their base. But there's such an immense difference between democrats in general and republicans that it's silly to lump them together like this and pretend they're equally bad (or even close to equally bad).

 

[F1fan]

I remember how getting "Obamacare" passed was like pulling teeth, with the Republicans predicting all sorts of dire consequences.
And even though it did pass, the Republicans managed to sabotage it by blocking the Risk Corridors, forcing Insurers to raise prices prophylactically.

Don’t forget how Trump cancelled the mandate and pulled funding for subsidies. That caused immediate cost increases to the insured. And then right wingers call liberals haters.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Liberal Democrats really don't like the poor or working class.

I've never polled "Liberal Democrats,' nor am I interested in castigating them.

I do, however, have exceedingly little regard for those who bloviate sophomorically about them.

 

[We Never Know]

This "both sides"ism is one of the biggest reasons for the mess we're in. Making it seem like both parties are equally bad and equally guilty of all of this stuff gives people the impression that the extremism on the right is just par for the course and nothing to get outraged about. It allows the right to keep pushing farther and farther in that direction, because it's all "just typical politics".

It's true that democrats are far from perfect, and that they sometimes engage in "typical politics". Some of them get rich through politics. Some manipulate the media and their base. But there's such an immense difference between democrats in general and republicans that it's silly to lump them together like this and pretend they're equally bad (or even close to equally bad).

Its not a matter if who is worse. Its a matter of them constant saying its them not us.

Ignoring that both sides are part of the problem is why we are in a mess.

The right ignores their own problems and only focus on the left.
The left ignores their own problems and only focus on the right.

When an old convicted felon and an old mentally failing are the two chosen to lead this country, that should be a big red flag.
Yet both parties were fine with their choice, make/made excuses for their choice, and even though both choices are bad, think their choice is good.(though now one has been forced out).

As another poster pointed out, we only have choices of the lesser of two evils.
Used to people voted for the best candidate, not the lesser evil. Those days have disappeared.

It used to be 'vote for us because we will do...'
Now its 'vote for us or else because they will do...'