How to Account for Differences in Health Outcomes of Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated Children?

[Deeje]

@leibowde84 do you know what propaganda is?

Ask yourself one important question......why are vaccinations so strongly promoted when there are no independent studies that prove that they don't do more harm than good? All the so-called benefits are claimed by the ones who make the vaccines. Big pharma has an agenda, but it isn't the health of the nation.....it's their bottom line. The medical system Is controlled by an entity with immense wealth and power....it is rife with corruption.

Who benefits from the promotion of all those vaccinations pushed on parents with questionable studies and what amounts to pure emotional blackmail?
How much money is pouring into the bank accounts of all the people involved in pushing a potentially dangerous range of vaccines being pumped into innocent children because their trusting parents were convinced of the safety.

Now ask yourself what possible motive the anti-vax community has in warning people of the dangers? These are usually the parents and families of children permanently brain damaged, mostly by the mercury based preservatives etc. that are added to give their products longer shelf life. The very fact that a vaccine injury facility is set up to financially compensate parents for the damage done to their children shows you that there is an admission of liability. Billions of dollars have already been paid out in compensation.....but all the money in the world cannot give a child back their life as a normal human being. Parents are staring down the barrel of being lifelong carers for these damaged kids. It's not a small price to pay for misplaced trust.

People need to be informed so that they know the dangers and informed consent includes all the knowledge needed to make what can amount to a life altering decision.

 

[Deeje]

Firstly, your claim was 1 in 48, not 1 in 68.
Secondly, and more to the point, what source do you have to claim that the US is #1 in autism rates?

It's interesting to hear that question come from you, considering your position on this subject.

As I said, the figures vary slightly depending upon your source. The CDC gives a similar figure. It is ridiculously high and increasing exponentially with the number of vaccines given.

Are you by any chance working in the orthodox medical system?

 

[Deeje]

I'm sorry, but it is EXTREMELY irresponsible to spread dishonest conspiracy reporting like this without verifying the claims with reputable sources. The anti-vaccine movement has been proven stupid time and time again. It is an extremely dangerous idea to spread.

The thing about conspiracy theories is that some of them are actually correct, but when you surround them with the musings of nutters, they hope you will not spot the difference.

The irresponsible thing to do is not warn people that they may be doing more harm than good by putting large amounts of foreign material and known toxins into very immature bodies with underdeveloped immune systems.

You cannot 'verify claims' when the studies are only done by the ones who make the vaccines. Anyone who questions the validity of their claims is immediately labelled a "quack". The fox is guarding the hen house!

 

[Deeje]

Something else that might be contributing to the health problems we face is discussed here....

Why Is Glyphosate Sprayed on Crops Right Before Harvest?

The Real Reason Wheat is Toxic (it's not the gluten) | The Healthy Home Economist

 

[Poisonshady313]

As I said, the figures vary slightly depending upon your source. The CDC gives a similar figure. It is ridiculously high and increasing exponentially with the number of vaccines given.

Are you by any chance working in the orthodox medical system?

No. I'm just a guy who noticed that you have twice avoided telling me where you get the idea that the US is #1 in the rate of autism. I'll give you a pass for the first time because I wasn't specific enough. The second time, however, you have no excuse.

 

[Deeje]

No. I'm just a guy who noticed that you have twice avoided telling me where you get the idea that the US is #1 in the rate of autism. I'll give you a pass for the first time because I wasn't specific enough. The second time, however, you have no excuse.

That statistic was in one of the links I posted. If you Google the highest autism rates in the world, this one
( Countries With The Highest Rates of Autism ) says that the US is in the top 5. Japan is first. But they banned MMR shots because of too many adverse reactions.

Vaccination are not as safe as they make them out to be. What if your child was the 1 in 68? They are damaged for life.
Strange that I can't find any updated figures for these stats....?

This was also revealing...

What Many Parents Don’t Know About the MMR Vaccine
The list of adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine, straight from Merck’s vaccine package inserts, is long and alarming. A shortened version of the vaccine damage associated with the MMR vaccine includes vomiting, diarrhea, anaphylaxis, ear pain, nerve deafness, diabetes, arthritis, myalgia, encephalitis, febrile seizures, pneumonia, and death. [7, 8]

A search of the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database shows the following statistics from the United States: over 75,000 adverse events have been reported from any combination of measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines, including, most notably:

• 78 deaths
• 85 cases of deafness
• 48 cases of decreased eye contact
• 92 cases of developmental delay
• 855 reported cases of autism
• 116 cases of intellectual disability
• 401 reports of speech disorders
• 276 reports of loss of consciousness
• 143 cases of encephalitis
• 74 cases of meningitis
• 111 cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome
• 692 cases of gait disturbance (not being able to walk normally)
• 748 cases of hypokinesia (partial or complete loss of muscle movement)
• 653 reports of hypotonia (poor muscle tone)
• 4874 reports of seizures, including febrile convulsions and tonic clonic seizures
• 1576 cases of cellulitis (a potentially serious skin infection)

And finally, in some cases, the vaccine has caused the very diseases it is supposed to prevent, with the following data reported to VAERS:

• 147 cases of measles
• 384 cases of mumps
• 29 cases of rubella [9]

The number of adverse events following vaccination are vastly underreported, as acknowledged by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The National Vaccine Information Center estimates that less than one to ten percent of adverse reactions to vaccines are reported. Many of the numbers reported above could therefore be multiplied by one hundred to determine a more accurate amount of adverse reactions. [10, 11]

Japanese Government Continues to Ban the MMR Vaccine – VacTruth.com

 

[leibowde84]

The thing about conspiracy theories is that some of them are actually correct, but when you surround them with the musings of nutters, they hope you will not spot the difference.

The irresponsible thing to do is not warn people that they may be doing more harm than good by putting large amounts of foreign material and known toxins into very immature bodies with underdeveloped immune systems.

You cannot 'verify claims' when the studies are only done by the ones who make the vaccines. Anyone who questions the validity of their claims is immediately labelled a "quack". The fox is guarding the hen house!

Thus far you have presented nothing but retracted and repeatedly debunked studies. So, you haven't presented any kind of a valid argument. It is easy to find reliable sources that spell out exactly why the study you cited is fraudulent.

 

[leibowde84]

@leibowde84 do you know what propaganda is?

Ask yourself one important question......why are vaccinations so strongly promoted when there are no independent studies that prove that they don't do more harm than good? All the so-called benefits are claimed by the ones who make the vaccines. Big pharma has an agenda, but it isn't the health of the nation.....it's their bottom line. The medical system Is controlled by an entity with immense wealth and power....it is rife with corruption.

Who benefits from the promotion of all those vaccinations pushed on parents with questionable studies and what amounts to pure emotional blackmail?
How much money is pouring into the bank accounts of all the people involved in pushing a potentially dangerous range of vaccines being pumped into innocent children because their trusting parents were convinced of the safety.

Now ask yourself what possible motive the anti-vax community has in warning people of the dangers? These are usually the parents and families of children permanently brain damaged, mostly by the mercury based preservatives etc. that are added to give their products longer shelf life. The very fact that a vaccine injury facility is set up to financially compensate parents for the damage done to their children shows you that there is an admission of liability. Billions of dollars have already been paid out in compensation.....but all the money in the world cannot give a child back their life as a normal human being. Parents are staring down the barrel of being lifelong carers for these damaged kids. It's not a small price to pay for misplaced trust.

People need to be informed so that they know the dangers and informed consent includes all the knowledge needed to make what can amount to a life altering decision.

Then present some evidence that has not been debunked repeatedly. Thus far you haven't presented anything.

 

[Deeje]

Thus far you have presented nothing but retracted and repeatedly debunked studies. So, you haven't presented any kind of a valid argument. It is easy to find reliable sources that spell out exactly why the study you cited is fraudulent.

Cite these "reliable" sources. You have no idea how 'unreliable' they really are. Did you read any of my links? How do you know the information is not valid? The only sources you will accept are the very ones who have a vested interest in promoting vaccinations.

You think they care about the health of children? They want you to think so. It parallels the care they exhibit when treating cancer patients, most of whom die despite their horrendous treatments, in the worst pain and suffering imaginable...and only after they have paid out ridiculous amounts of money for the privilege. You really think the makers of these drugs and vaccines care about people? How must doctors feel when they are tied into such a cruel and heartless system? They are not permitted to offer any other treatment or they will lose their licence....did you know that?

Then present some evidence that has not been debunked repeatedly. Thus far you haven't presented anything.

Again..."debunked" by whom? You severely underestimate the power behind this industry.....in fact, behind the whole orthodox medical system. This is not a slight on the many sincere people who work in health care...it is about a system that has the world thoroughly deceived.

Can you tell me what possible motive anti-vaxers have for issuing their warnings, apart from genuine concerns that more children will be damaged for life? Take your fingers out of your ears.

 

[leibowde84]

Cite these "reliable" sources. You have no idea how 'unreliable' they really are. Did you read any of my links? How do you know the information is not valid? The only sources you will accept are the very ones who have a vested interest in promoting vaccinations.

You think they care about the health of children? They want you to think so. It parallels the care they exhibit when treating cancer patients, most of whom die despite their horrendous treatments, in the worst pain and suffering imaginable...and only after they have paid out ridiculous amounts of money for the privilege. You really think the makers of these drugs and vaccines care about people? How must doctors feel when they are tied into such a cruel and heartless system? They are not permitted to offer any other treatment or they will lose their licence....did you know that?



Again..."debunked" by whom? You severely underestimate the power behind this industry.....in fact, behind the whole orthodox medical system. This is not a slight on the many sincere people who work in health care...it is about a system that has the world thoroughly deceived.

Can you tell me what possible motive anti-vaxers have for issuing their warnings, apart from genuine concerns that more children will be damaged for life? Take your fingers out of your ears.

Just look at my previous post where I list 5-6 articles that spell out exactly why your study is fraudulent and has been repeatedly debunked. They don't just say that it was wrong. They spell out specifically WHY it was was wrong. What was wrong with the study.

There are many people who believe and perpetuate conspiracy theories for no apparent reason other than being duped by misinformation. The reasoning doesn't matter. It is the facts that do. Read the articles I cited and get back to me. But, if your only argument is that they are minions of the vaccine industry, don't bother. As that is a merely a pathetic attempt to avoid the facts.

 

[Poisonshady313]

That statistic was in one of the links I posted. If you Google the highest autism rates in the world, this one
( Countries With The Highest Rates of Autism ) says that the US is in the top 5. Japan is first. But they banned MMR shots because of too many adverse reactions.

You didn't say "top 5". You said #1. You have yet to support that statement.

Vaccination are not as safe as they make them out to be. What if your child was the 1 in 68? They are damaged for life.

If I ever have a child, and he or she turns out to be autistic, first of all I don't believe I'd ever use the word "damaged" to describe them. Secondly, I'd be more interested in the actual cause of autism, and not latch onto some nonsense drummed up by a disgraced unlicensed doctor in a fraudulent paper that was retracted from the medical journal it was published in.

This was also revealing...

What Many Parents Don’t Know About the MMR Vaccine
The list of adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine, straight from Merck’s vaccine package inserts, is long and alarming. A shortened version of the vaccine damage associated with the MMR vaccine includes vomiting, diarrhea, anaphylaxis, ear pain, nerve deafness, diabetes, arthritis, myalgia, encephalitis, febrile seizures, pneumonia, and death. [7, 8]

A search of the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database shows the following statistics from the United States: over 75,000 adverse events have been reported from any combination of measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines, including, most notably:

• 78 deaths
• 85 cases of deafness
• 48 cases of decreased eye contact
• 92 cases of developmental delay
• 855 reported cases of autism
• 116 cases of intellectual disability
• 401 reports of speech disorders
• 276 reports of loss of consciousness
• 143 cases of encephalitis
• 74 cases of meningitis
• 111 cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome
• 692 cases of gait disturbance (not being able to walk normally)
• 748 cases of hypokinesia (partial or complete loss of muscle movement)
• 653 reports of hypotonia (poor muscle tone)
• 4874 reports of seizures, including febrile convulsions and tonic clonic seizures
• 1576 cases of cellulitis (a potentially serious skin infection)

And finally, in some cases, the vaccine has caused the very diseases it is supposed to prevent, with the following data reported to VAERS:

• 147 cases of measles
• 384 cases of mumps
• 29 cases of rubella [9]

The number of adverse events following vaccination are vastly underreported, as acknowledged by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The National Vaccine Information Center estimates that less than one to ten percent of adverse reactions to vaccines are reported. Many of the numbers reported above could therefore be multiplied by one hundred to determine a more accurate amount of adverse reactions. [10, 11]

Japanese Government Continues to Ban the MMR Vaccine – VacTruth.com

From the VAERS website:

When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index

 

[Deeje]

Just look at my previous post where I list 5-6 articles that spell out exactly why your study is fraudulent and has been repeatedly debunked. They don't just say that it was wrong. They spell out specifically WHY it was was wrong. What was wrong with the study.

And you believe them...I get it. I believe that your faith is misplaced.

I did read some of them.....total rubbish from the pro-vax crowd. You will find out one day how very wrong you are about all this. Propaganda works because people don't know its propaganda. Some people are laughing all the way to the bank.
Doctors are completely brainwashed by the system that gives them their licence to practice medicine or should I say 'prescribe' drugs....often extremely harmful ones with equally harmful side-effects. Isn't the first part of the Hippocratic Oath to "do no harm"? Who conducts the trials for these drugs and vaccines?....the people who stand to make lots of money selling them.

There are many people who believe and perpetuate conspiracy theories for no apparent reason other than being duped by misinformation. The reasoning doesn't matter. It is the facts that do. Read the articles I cited and get back to me. But, if your only argument is that they are minions of the vaccine industry, don't bother. As that is a merely a pathetic attempt to avoid the facts.

How do you know that you haven't been duped by misinformation? What will you do if you find out that you have?

If you are interested in facts....you ignored this one....A search of the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database shows the following statistics from the United States: over 75,000 adverse events have been reported from any combination of measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program run by the U.S. government, and has paid more than $3.3 billion for vaccine injury. "

https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/vicpmonthlyreporttemplate5_1_17.pdf

One can only imagine what parents have to go through to prove their case....years of court appearances. The only ones benefiting here are the lawyers who made a whopping $164,012,495.29.

 

[Deeje]

You didn't say "top 5". You said #1. You have yet to support that statement.

Oh please...look these things up for yourself. Its hard to get figures past 2009, which, if the rate is increasing every year, its probably up there by now. Lets just say its way too high.....

If I ever have a child, and he or she turns out to be autistic, first of all I don't believe I'd ever use the word "damaged" to describe them

If the damage was done by someone injecting a toxic substance into them whilst assuring you that they are safe....then I would call them "damaged"....technically neurologically damaged. Its a brain injury.

Secondly, I'd be more interested in the actual cause of autism, and not latch onto some nonsense drummed up by a disgraced unlicensed doctor in a fraudulent paper that was retracted from the medical journal it was published in.

The actual cause of autism can be from a range of toxic elements in our environment....all of which are known to cause neurological damage.

"Researchers link more pollutants to disorders of brain development; call for global prevention strategy to control their use
February 18, 2014

A new report implicates a growing number of industrial chemicals as contributing to autism and other disorders of brain development. The authors call for a global strategy to reduce exposure.

The report appears online in Lancet Neurology. The authors are Harvard environmental epidemiologist Philippe Grandjean and Mount Sinai Medical School pediatrician and epidemiologist Philip Landrigan.

The new report summarizes evidence from published studies on industrial chemicals and brain toxicity and updates the review that the authors conducted in 2006.

Five known threats to brain development
Their 2006 review identified five widely used industrial chemicals as "developmental neurotoxicants." Such chemicals can contribute to developmental brain disorders such as autism. The five were lead, methylmercury, polychlorinated biphenyls, arsenic and toluene. . . .

Six more chemicals on the danger list
The new report adds six chemicals to the list of developmental neurotoxicants. They are high doses of manganese or fluoride, the pesticides chlorpyrifos and DDT, the solvent tetrachloroethylene and polybrominated diphenyl ethers. Polybrominated diphenyl ethers are flame retardants applied to furniture."

Autism and Toxic Chemicals: Are Pollutants Fueling Rising Prevalence?

From the VAERS website:

When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

You honestly think that anyone is going to willingly admit liability? Considering how hard it would be to win a case involving vaccines, 3.3 Billion dollars is quite a chunk of liability, don't you think?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Oh please...look these things up for yourself. Its hard to get figures past 2009, which, if the rate is increasing every year, its probably up there by now. Lets just say its way too high.....

You made an unsubstantiated claim, failed to provide substance when asked to do so, and now you're asking me to substantiate your claim.

That's not how this works.

And now you're whining about how hard it is to get figures, when all I wanted you to do was support your #1 in autism claim, which you have walked back on twice already.

You have successfully proven to me that you can't be taken seriously on this subject.

 

[Nous]

It was a fraudulent study that was retracted and proved false.

The Mawson et al. study was published in Journal of Translational Science on April 24, 2017, and has never been retracted. Here, again, is the link to the paper hosted by the publisher, which I provided in the OP:

Pilot comparative study on the health of vaccinated and unvaccinated 6- to 12- year old U.S. children

The writers of the blogs you've linked to are simply not honest enough to state the truth--despite the fact that one of the blog posts you linked to quoted a 2016 tweet from the parent company of the published stating that "This article was provisionally accepted but not published. In response to concerns raised, we have reopened its review. @70Hertz". Obviously after "reopen[ing] its review," the journal published the study.

The writers of the blog posts you linked to are not just dishonest, they are fools. You should try to learn the difference between someone who knows shat s/he is talking about and an idiot. One of the posts you linked to claims numerous times that the study and author is "biased," the blog writer apparently ignorant of what "bias" is in science: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_(statistics) Click and learn what "bias" is in statistics.

None of the lying idiots that you linked to have shown that the Mawson et al. study is "fraudulent" or "false." Right?

The entire scientific community lashed out at the Mawson study as being "quackery". It's complete and utter dishonesty by a fraud.

Your claims here are ignorant and false. If you disagree, then show that "the entire scientific community lashed out at the Mawson study as being "quackery".

 

[Nous]

Bacteria and viruses mutate in the presence of vaccines also.

I said this, but the "also" at the end makes it sound like I may have been referring to "in addition to people who are not vaccinated". I didn't mean that. I meant "also" as "in addition to antiobiotics". Both antibiotics and vaccines exert selection pressure on bacteria and viruses. People who are not vaccinated, just like people who do not take antibiotics, do not exert selection pressure on targeted pathogens (my underlining):

Herd immunity can potentially induce a change of circulating viruses. However, it remains largely unknown that how bacterial pathogens adapt to vaccination. In this study, Bordetella pertussis, the causative agent of whooping cough, was selected as an example to explore possible effect of vaccination on the bacterial pathogen. We sequenced and analysed the complete genomes of 40 B. pertussis strains from Finland and China, as well as 11 previously sequenced strains from the Netherlands, where different vaccination strategies have been used over the past 50 years. The results showed that the molecular clock moved at different rates in these countries and in distinct periods, which suggested that evolution of the B. pertussis population was closely associated with the country vaccination coverage. Comparative whole-genome analyses indicated that evolution in this human-restricted pathogen was mainly characterised by ongoing genetic shift and gene loss. Furthermore, 116 SNPs were specifically detected in currently circulating ptxP3-containing strains. The finding might explain the successful emergence of this lineage and its spread worldwide. Collectively, our results suggest that the immune pressure of vaccination is one major driving force for the evolution of B. pertussis, which facilitates further exploration of the pathogenicity of B. pertussis.​

Whole-genome sequencing reveals the effect of vaccination on the evolution of <i>Bordetella pertussis</i>

Malaria vaccine developers are concerned that antigenic escape will erode vaccine efficacy. Evolutionary theorists have raised the possibility that some types of vaccine could also create conditions favoring the evolution of more virulent pathogens. Such evolution would put unvaccinated people at greater risk of severe disease. Here we test the impact of vaccination with a single highly purified antigen on the malaria parasite Plasmodium chabaudi evolving in laboratory mice. The antigen we used, AMA-1, is a component of several candidate malaria vaccines currently in various stages of trials in humans. We first found that a more virulent clone was less readily controlled by AMA-1-induced immunity than its less virulent progenitor. Replicated parasites were then serially passaged through control or AMA-1 vaccinated mice and evaluated after 10 and 21 rounds of selection. We found no evidence of evolution at the ama-1 locus. Instead, virulence evolved; AMA-1-selected parasites induced greater anemia in naïve mice than both control and ancestral parasites. Our data suggest that recombinant blood stage malaria vaccines can drive the evolution of more virulent malaria parasites.​

The Evolutionary Consequences of Blood-Stage Vaccination on the Rodent Malaria Plasmodium chabaudi

I guess these are "antivax" studies conducted by "antivaxxers".

 

[leibowde84]

None of the lying idiots that you linked to have shown that the Mawson et al. study is "fraudulent" or "false." Right?

The health and scientific community has shown time and time again that the Mawson study and other so called studies claiming to show that vaccination of children is more dangerous than non-vaccination are fraudulent, unreliable, and dangerous. You can provide studies on anything that will push their authors agendas. That is why it is important to look to actual, official publications to get the facts. Below are some from the World Health Organization, Scientific American, and the Federal Government who all agree that vaccinating children is absolutely necessary.
Questions and answers on immunization and vaccine safety
What's in Vaccines | Vaccines.gov
Safety | Vaccines.gov
Straight Talk about Vaccination

Your claims here are ignorant and false. If you disagree, then show that "the entire scientific community lashed out at the Mawson study as being "quackery".

Shown above. There are quacks who will perform "studies" that might disagree, just as there are scientists who disagree with evolution and climate change, but that doesn't mean that the scientific community supports evolution and climate change.

 

[Nous]

I'm sorry, but it is EXTREMELY irresponsible to spread dishonest conspiracy reporting like this without verifying the claims with reputable sources.

Who "spread dishonest conspiracy reporting"? Quote the "dishonest conspiracy reporting". It seems you might not know what the word "conspiracy" means. Look it up.

 

[Nous]

The health and scientific community has shown time and time again that the Mawson study and other so called studies claiming to show that vaccination of children is more dangerous than non-vaccination are fraudulent, unreliable, and dangerous.

Prove it.

 

[Nous]

You can provide studies on anything that will push their authors agendas.

Obviously you can't provide even a single study to prove your claims about the "fraud" of the Mawson et al. study.

All you've done so far is linked to blog posts by idiots who've stated provable lies and don't even know what the word "bias" means.