How to convert a Hindu

[ShivaFan]

Namaste.

I think Vinayaka is correct. Now, I never think about this subject much so it isn't like I have done any "research" on it, but upon obsevation:

Outside of Buddhism which in my opinion takes the most converts from Hinduism (they, however do not celebrate or make public their new converts as part of the public relations campaign as would Christian sects often do), the Catholics are very subtle and do get converts in India and I would like to make some specific observations of mine on that:

Indians, Hindus, Catholics and Conversion to Christianity:

I have noticed among Indian relatives and friends a high regard for Catholics, but THIS DEPENDS on which REGION of India you are talking about and which "crowd" you hang out with. Indians have a lot of attachment to their particular "community". And you know the saying, "birds of a feather stick together".

So from circumstance, I am surrounded by Bengalis and Oriyas and also those of the "Chowringhee" British influenced "gentlemen" and "ladies" set of Kolkata, also the "neighborhood" Devi devotees which spans from WB into Orissa along with Shaivas, and also those who were "industrialists" and also in the "gem business". This crowd likes Mother Teresa.

They also like how the nuns dress in almost Hindu like habits (vaguely but it is there).

They like Mary, because they like Kali and Durga.

They like Catholic school teachers.

They do not like Protestants.

I am not an expert enough to explain all this, but MOTHER CULTURE is also somehow identified with Catholic (e.g. Devi, Cow, Food from Mother). They like how Catholic give food to the poor.

BUT I think this depends on region. I noticed in some parts of India, they don't like any Christians.

Personally, I get along with Christians very well. My Mother In Law has more than once shouted down and "get out of my house" reaction to Protestants who might make crude comment to Deva or Devi murti in the house. But she sort of likes Catholics.

So among Christians, Catholics probably know how to integrate into a society, assimilate, are naturals at it over the last 1000 years or so, and are probably the most successful Christians at "conversion" though I want to clarify the Catholics do not emphasis "conversion" in WB India like for example Catholics from a Phillipino background who do partake in "conversion" agendas upfront verse assimilation.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[charlesischuck]

so what if they convert them? religion is like a disease if it does not convert (which every religion does) it dies like every single one of the thousands of other religions that everyone though was the "one" religion. Religion converts everyone it can now i guess you could change the meaning of converting and make it so that white people cannot be converted by Catholicism because they made it or every other religion depending on what ethnic background came up with it. Christians converting Hindus is just like Christians converting americans please stop being racist and have an open mind if the religion is failing so be it let it die like all the other thousands of religions before it was invented.

 

[Vinayaka]

so what if they convert them? religion is like a disease if it does not convert (which every religion does) it dies like every single one of the thousands of other religions that everyone though was the "one" religion. Religion converts everyone it can now i guess you could change the meaning of converting and make it so that white people cannot be converted by Catholicism because they made it or every other religion depending on what ethnic background came up with it. Christians converting Hindus is just like Christians converting americans please stop being racist and have an open mind if the religion is failing so be it let it die like all the other thousands of religions before it was invented.

The problem is the disharmony and confusion and pain it causes. This has absolutely nothing to do with racism. When people get converted, it pits brother against brother, parent against child. Then you have a lot of family disharmony and resulting pain. How many people have a dysfunctional person in their family, an alcoholic for example? It's the same with the religious 'nut'.

Within the individual, it causes confusion. I don't think our goal as humans should be to cause confusion in others. Vegetarian versus non-vegetarian, heaven/hell versus reincarnation are two such examples.

Your statement that all religions convert is true as far as I know but only two religions actively seek to convert. There is a huge difference.

 

[charlesischuck]

The problem is the disharmony and confusion and pain it causes. This has absolutely nothing to do with racism. When people get converted, it pits brother against brother, parent against child. Then you have a lot of family disharmony and resulting pain. How many people have a dysfunctional person in their family, an alcoholic for example? It's the same with the religious 'nut'.

Within the individual, it causes confusion. I don't think our goal as humans should be to cause confusion in others. Vegetarian versus non-vegetarian, heaven/hell versus reincarnation are two such examples.

Your statement that all religions convert is true as far as I know but only two religions actively seek to convert. There is a huge difference.

actively converting is different but the culture of an individuals background can convert them out of peer pressure and if religion wasn't ******* crazy and said that every single religion is wrong but there own then there wouldn't be any confusion or violence buuuuuuttttt no religion killed and is killing millions maybe even billions in the whole scale of things

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste CharlieisChuck

No disrespect, but I do not understand anything you just said. I cannot even connect the dots. I am an American. Racism is my enemy, not sure what it has to do with conversion.

In Hinduism, for me, Hinduism is an Experience, not a "conversion" moment. So like for example it is a "becoming" not a "conversion". Honestly, that is why typically Protestant sects are failures at Hindus in large measure, while Catholics use more subtle means.

When you look at a Hindu, you must also see the others with the Hindu. The entire family, next the community, the local devatas, the Temple, the Devas and Devi, then the region.

There are massive inter connections. Also there is no "one standard" or "template" for Mother India. No. You must understand the diversity of the Family, and also long, deep love interconnections. Maybe that is why I am not making any sense out of your ideas, it might be my fault but my being if you will is larger than perhaps some others who are more "individualistic". I do not mean I am not an individual, it's just that it is sort of like a big wedding, everyone is there.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[charlesischuck]

Namaste CharlieisChuck

No disrespect, but I do not understand anything you just said. I cannot even connect the dots. I am an American. Racism is my enemy, not sure what it has to do with conversion.

In Hinduism, for me, Hinduism is an Experience, not a "conversion" moment. So like for example it is a "becoming" not a "conversion". Honestly, that is why typically Protestant sects are failures at Hindus in large measure, while Catholics use more subtle means.

When you look at a Hindu, you must also see the others with the Hindu. The entire family, next the community, the local devatas, the Temple, the Devas and Devi, then the region.

There are massive inter connections. Also there is no "one standard" or "template" for Mother India. No. You must understand the diversity of the Family, and also long, deep love interconnections. Maybe that is why I am not making any sense out of your ideas, it might be my fault but my being if you will is larger than perhaps some others who are more "individualistic". I do not mean I am not an individual, it's just that it is sort of like a big wedding, everyone is there.

Om Namah Sivaya

ok i was really just trying to offend the other people who are concerned over one religion converting another its happened for ever and it will continue for ever and the simple truth is it's the people that resist the conversion that start confusion hate and racism and umm ps. your "becoming" is exactly what conversion means you just call it something else

 

[Vinayaka]

Unitarianism comes to mind, most do not believe in a divine Christ or that Christs death on the cross is necessary for salvation. Christanity is very fractured due to dogma. I have found the messages of Christ to be what resounds for me. But certain things like "hell, heaven, divinity, salvation by faith" are not universally accepted by Christians. The Catholic Church for instance falls into the group that believe these things...though its released statements at time that may seem contradictory. But again I do not want to interrupt any further.

Please ... if you want to discuss how Christ has affected you, do it in the Christian DIR, not in the Hindu DIR. DIR means Discuss Individual Religions.

 

[Vinayaka]

ok i was really just trying to offend the other people who are concerned over one religion converting another its happened for ever and it will continue for ever and the simple truth is it's the people that resist the conversion that start confusion hate and racism and umm ps. your "becoming" is exactly what conversion means you just call it something else

Put your head in these shoes for a minute. You're a hard working man trying to support your wife and two kids. Behind your back, and without your permission or knowledge, some sneaky people go visit your wife while you're working away to support them. Your wife is converted to a new way of thinking, and you are made out to be the bad guy in all this, when you're really the good guy, just an honest Joe trying to live a simple life. But these missionaries who converted your wife are to blame. It ends in divorce. So just when you thought everything was going well, it all ends tragically.

Now tell me honestly that if you were that person, you wouldn't be concerned.

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste Charles2Chuck.

Well, I am not "converting" every single day, but I am "becoming" every single day.

I do not know if you are a Hindu, but my wife's cooking is enough tu make almost anyone a Hindu after the first couple of mouthfuls. I know there are super Christian cooks too, but then you become an "Italian" or a "Greek" etc rather than a "Christian". Jokes aside, if you are a Christian, I can predict that if you are interested in converting anyone, it's going to fail pretty much. Or you might just be saying that by talking about the methods others use to convert means you are racist or anti American. Don't worry, it is not like that. It is just pointing out that some sects use conversion as their main focus, like a "head count", which determines their own "religiousity" or "success" in "life". Actually, most do not see it that way. So when others talk about things like this, it is sort of like talking about the door to door shoe sales person, or the used car dealership experience. It's just people cluing in others as to "heads up" here is what it is, so you are not perhaps hurt in the process.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Vinayaka]

It's just people cluing in others as to "heads up" here is what it is, so you are not perhaps hurt in the process.

Om Namah Sivaya

Exactly that, and also a vague hope that some might actually realise the harm they cause and stop doing it.

 

[charlesischuck]

Namaste Charles2Chuck.

Well, I am not "converting" every single day, but I am "becoming" every single day.



Ok for starters i am not christian i am agnostic and you are converting more and more every day to become the "best" whatever your religion says you can. And i like your idea of converting people door to door luckily now days most people just slam the door in their face and think nothing more of it. But it's the large religious organizations that believe their message is truth then try to enforce it upon others like in africa or other rural parts of the world where they can convert them by using basic incentives like food and a place to stay. Now there's nothing wrong with these generous actions but the simple act of influencing someone causes confusion if they don't take the message properly. If they do take the message properly they follow that religion's beliefs and nothing bad comes of it except mass irrationality. (which really isn't good either)

 

[Enai de a lukal]

This just in: the whole Christian missionary enterprise is underhanded and deplorable; attaching humanitarian aid to attempts at religious conversation and cultural warfare (which, lets be honest, is what it often amounts to) is one the greatest (but far from the only) sins Christianity has on its conscience.

Oh wait, that's old news... One more reason why Christianity is, in most cases, an insidious and life-destroying ideology.

 

[charlesischuck]

oh and i am actually really curious what are you becoming?

 

[charlesischuck]

This just in: the whole Christian missionary enterprise is underhanded and deplorable; attaching humanitarian aid to attempts at religious conversation and cultural warfare (which, lets be honest, is what it often amounts to) is one the greatest (but far from the only) sins Christianity has on its conscience.

Oh wait, that's old news... One more reason why Christianity is, in most cases, an insidious and life-destroying ideology.

yeah i feel you on that but the simple fact that they go to these places give them food and shelter is amazing and there are more religious aid programs because their own irrationality gives them motivation which really isn't all that bad. Also it really isn't bad that they are giving false hope to a bunch of starving third world countries let them believe that when there pointless existence that's even more pointless than those who go to school and help society ends that they will finally be happy and completely satisfied. Just as every christian in the rest of the world believes. It breed an ungodly amount of irrationality but i think as long as they don't go overboard it's all good let the masses have hope of a brighter tomorrow.

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste charles2chuck

Again I have no idea what you are talking about viz "I like your idea of going door to door", that is not my idea if that is what you think, the Sampradayas in Hinduism overwhelmingly do not partake in converting others or going out door to door, the only ones that typically do that is Christian groups. I think the one exception regarding Hinduism is perhaps ISKCON trying to sell books.

Hinduism is not about converting others. It really isn't much of an "organized" religion either, it has no "pope" or such, is is a huge and diverse family of adherents many with their own traditions. In fact, the word "Hindu" isn't really a Vedic or term per say, I don't mind the term but it was used by the British a lot. You have Shaivas, Vaishnavas, Shaktas, Sauryas, and many others, a lot of them do not even call themselves Hindu.

You do not have to be a Hindu, I have no interest in "converting" you. Hinduism is an experience, not a "conversion", on the path to moksha or liberation there is constant change all around you. Every 7 years all of your cells have been replaced with another, you are not even the same body and you are becoming or moving or going down a path all the time. You can become better or worse for yourself and others. That is what is meant by becoming.

I am not your enemy, I am not telling you to convert. The larger picture is what Hinduism is about.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

FranklinMichaelV.3;3370948]Well to the standard Christian fundamentalist it would be that "god does not send anyone to hell, people choose to" regardless if there is any basisl for hell in the bible in the first place.

That really shows the mind set of the so called fundamentalist and who actually are the fundies, conversion then becomes a restriction of a persons choice rather then the so called good intentions of a christian. So there is never a Good intention in conversion, its all personal gain. If the fundamentalist are those who have been taught that the rest of the world is going to hell and they believe it is the choice of the person to go to hell, they engage in conversion by putting the fear of hell in the minds of those who they want to convert by any means and giving it a mask called good intention.

For me I stopped believing in hell, because if my whole reason for believing in God was out of fear of punishment than my belief was not sincere. It certainly makes it harder in Christianity, but it also meant and means that I need to focus on what it means to be a "Christian".

That is good for you that you don't believe in Hell, its good for me not to believe in Christianity.

I had heard from someoneWhat Christianity had offered at the time in the western world, was "answers". It rose during a time of much philosophical thinking in the western world and provided answers to questions such as "why is there evil?" It was also the poor mans religion it taught that God loved you regardless of your station and that it did not matter where you came from, what you were born into, you were deserving of grace like anyone else.

What do you mean by the western world?

What was the Answer to Why there is Evil?

Was it only for the "Poor man", and not the rich?

What you say above is similar to the tactics used by those fundamentalist to convert the uneducated, poor and lower cast of Hindus.

You're right in that it did not offering anything particularly new but it provided it to more than one group. It came off as a religion that was not exclusive to one particular set of people.

And how was it provided to more then one group? the answer is through conversion, and why do they convert, well "Good Intentions" i guess.

Like most things though, it soon became the philosophical battle grounds for intellectuals and the doctrines of those who could yell loudest became the foundation for many of the beliefs held now.

The Philosophical battle ground of the Intellectuals is not a bad thing, unless the doctrine is not for the Philosopher nor the Intellectual.

 

[Kalidas]

Honestly i do not mind the Christians trying to help the poor, that's great it's what their Jesus told them to do. Now to use these gifts of charity for conversion to me is wrong, it's almost akin to extortion. "Hey I will give you this food so you won't starve, but only if you become a Christian." Back in my Christian days my dad always taught me to "spread through actions" do good "Christian" things and they will come to you. If these Jesus is really as much of a powerful man as he is Conversion is unnecessary, it should happen simply by the fact that it is "right" and all men and women will be drawn to it (I do NOT believe that at all). I don't even have problems with people converting I'm a convert, but I did it on my own accord. I merely had a friend teach me what Hinduism was and what they (He) believed. I then chose to do more research and decided for myself to convert.

These missionary groups on the other hand are actively trying to convert people. I bet if people in India stopped converting they would stop with their charity (The Catholic church told Washington DC if they legalized gay marriage they would stop sending them aid to feed and house the homeless). These zealous converts care little for the suffering of their fellow man and focus more on gaining "more spiritual power" (if we have more members we must be right! )

FYI I do not think all Christians are like this or are trying to convert everyone and anyone.

 

[Vinayaka]

These missionary groups on the other hand are actively trying to convert people.

Absolutely. But sometimes it's subtle. That's why this thread ... to demonstrate some of the subtle ways. Frankly, I'd far rather a missionary come to my door, and say "I'm John. I'm a Catholic, and I'm here to try to convert you to my way of thinking." At least this John is an honest man, and I can respect that.

 

[Kalidas]

Absolutely. But sometimes it's subtle. That's why this thread ... to demonstrate some of the subtle ways. Frankly, I'd far rather a missionary come to my door, and say "I'm John. I'm a Catholic, and I'm here to try to convert you to my way of thinking." At least this John is an honest man, and I can respect that.

Here's the super funny part about that, that's against the ten comandmenta. Thou shall not lie. Decietful practices is a form of lying. So again they are breaking their own laws. Back to my other statement. If Christianity is such the perfect religion and Jesus the only son of God.why even decieve or convert? Have they such little faith in their messiah that they must do all the work?

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

I think a lot has been discussed regarding the Christian conversion tactics, i would like the readers here also to research some Islamic conversion tactics. links below of what i know of misinterpreting Hinduism to get converts.

Islamic Research Foundation - Hinduism-Introduction


Kalamullah.Com | Videos | Ahmed Deedat


Dawah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Conversation with a Hindu Convert to Islam | Clergy Corner | Islamic Insights

Contemporary Da'wah: Hinduism

Hinduism - Islam and Hinduism Initiative