-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
How to convert a Hindu
- Thread starter Vinayaka
- Start date
Maya3
Well-Known Member
I had to watch all of it. Do you think this is genuine, or do you think the kids just made it up to make a point?
It seemed to mock Christianity, the Hindu girl was very calm and well spoken but the other two girls were so ignorant that I wonder if the whole thing was staged?
How anyone would want to become Christian after watching something like this is beyond me.
Maya
It seemed to mock Christianity, the Hindu girl was very calm and well spoken but the other two girls were so ignorant that I wonder if the whole thing was staged?
How anyone would want to become Christian after watching something like this is beyond me.
Maya
ratikala
Istha gosthi
no and it put my day of to a very bad start , I wish that I thought that it was staged , ....
but unfortunately I dont , why would any one want to stage that ?
there are a lot of things I dont understand ? .....exactly how ignorant ignorance can be ? ....but unfortunately the answer to that is that ignorance knows no boundarys .
I HOPE it was a satire.... but IDK.
I hope it was a very clever troll. (Well... not that clever really... but you know what I mean?)
Not to judge but to me that was Churchianity, not Christianity.
If you follow my drift.
But maybe that is what I have to believe not to be ashamed of that part of the Path I walk in.
For the record, I do not think evangelizing is right.
I'm more of a 'preach the Truth always, and speak when I need to'...
Like the Bhagavadgita says:
Chapter 3, Verse 20-21
I doubt that I'm a 'great man', but I try to be great at being me.
I try to learn from others who I think are great....
and be what little example that I can be, unworthy as I might be say that I'm any kind of example.
But I think you get the sentiment I'm trying to share.
To my estimation, it's always been the fringe of religions that have also always been the Heart.
And I know that being my self and maintaining my participation in the Christian-life is the most radical, yet called for duty that I can do.
I can't apologize on behalf of the whole religion....
but as a person, I am sorry to everyone that videos like that exist.
And let's all hope it was a satire.
But who hasn't nearly been in a conversation like that before.
:namaste
Shalom Aleichem
SageTree
Namaste
The greatest incentive towards conversion away from Hinduism isn't the clever words of a Christian Evangelist, rather it is Hindus who are trying to escape from the suffocating oppression of the false doctrine of "by birth only" caste or jati. There may be 6000 jati or castes in the list of such castes (including the untouchables and the dalits and the outcastes), but these 6000 jati has no mention in the Vedas.
Countless dalits and "low castes" are refusing to accept oppression which is illegal in India, and many in large numbers have been converting to Buddhism, and to a lesser extent to Christianity since Christians are active in the Dalit and low caste communities.
But even more so, among the younger generation, not only is caste oppression seen as false religion, it is seen as totally out of touch with the reality of the modern world, and when they look back and hear of it as it becomes the dust bin of history (and was not part of Vedic India) many are turning totally away from all religions out pf embarrassment for the past.
Even among Westerners who have been adopted into Hinduism, the numbed one reason some later reject Hinduism or turn to Buddhism or back tp Christain religion, or no religion, is they happened to cross with extremist "by birth only" upper caste fanatics who then culturally shock such Western Hindus with vile caste centric shunning and exclusionary bigotry and statements to such Western Hindus such as "you are lower than shudras" and "are not allowed to read the Vedas because you are not Twice Born"and other such things where extremists want to tell Western Hindus they and their children are only good to be servants and are not allowed to enter the temple or hear or read Vedas simply because of their birth.
Caste extremists are the number one cause of conversion away from Hinduism, not clever evangelists. Such conversion away from Hinduism will continue until the lie of 6000 jati is done away with.
Luckily, it is in fact largely becoming irrelavent and even laughed upon by most Hindus, but not all. But this form of caste extremism and false doctrine remains the number one threat to Hinduism.
Om Namah Sivaya
The greatest incentive towards conversion away from Hinduism isn't the clever words of a Christian Evangelist, rather it is Hindus who are trying to escape from the suffocating oppression of the false doctrine of "by birth only" caste or jati. There may be 6000 jati or castes in the list of such castes (including the untouchables and the dalits and the outcastes), but these 6000 jati has no mention in the Vedas.
Countless dalits and "low castes" are refusing to accept oppression which is illegal in India, and many in large numbers have been converting to Buddhism, and to a lesser extent to Christianity since Christians are active in the Dalit and low caste communities.
But even more so, among the younger generation, not only is caste oppression seen as false religion, it is seen as totally out of touch with the reality of the modern world, and when they look back and hear of it as it becomes the dust bin of history (and was not part of Vedic India) many are turning totally away from all religions out pf embarrassment for the past.
Even among Westerners who have been adopted into Hinduism, the numbed one reason some later reject Hinduism or turn to Buddhism or back tp Christain religion, or no religion, is they happened to cross with extremist "by birth only" upper caste fanatics who then culturally shock such Western Hindus with vile caste centric shunning and exclusionary bigotry and statements to such Western Hindus such as "you are lower than shudras" and "are not allowed to read the Vedas because you are not Twice Born"and other such things where extremists want to tell Western Hindus they and their children are only good to be servants and are not allowed to enter the temple or hear or read Vedas simply because of their birth.
Caste extremists are the number one cause of conversion away from Hinduism, not clever evangelists. Such conversion away from Hinduism will continue until the lie of 6000 jati is done away with.
Luckily, it is in fact largely becoming irrelavent and even laughed upon by most Hindus, but not all. But this form of caste extremism and false doctrine remains the number one threat to Hinduism.
Om Namah Sivaya
Honestly, I do not know how much caste based discrimination has to do with it. Mainly, I don't know because I haven't lived in India for very long. The couple of times I was there I didn't really notice it much, but I wasn't watching for it either. I'm guessing it varies regionally, and I know for a fact it gets carried over into Christianity. So converting doesn't rid one of caste or class anyway.
The western press, and scholarly articles on Hinduism certainly make it a big deal. Often that's the first thing you hear about. Even on here, one of the first questions people interested in SD ask is about caste. But I don't trust biased reporting or western scholars either. They like to make a big deal out of lots of things. If some guys had their way, a whole introductory book would just be about caste, animal sacrifice, snake charming, sati, and poverty.
I can't see too many people just voluntarily walking into Christianity without someone there to help them out.
But of course, you could be right.
The western press, and scholarly articles on Hinduism certainly make it a big deal. Often that's the first thing you hear about. Even on here, one of the first questions people interested in SD ask is about caste. But I don't trust biased reporting or western scholars either. They like to make a big deal out of lots of things. If some guys had their way, a whole introductory book would just be about caste, animal sacrifice, snake charming, sati, and poverty.
I can't see too many people just voluntarily walking into Christianity without someone there to help them out.
But of course, you could be right.
Last edited:
Maya3
Well-Known Member
The reason I thought it was staged was first that the teenagers were SO incredibly ignorant. Unless they were home schooled and not taught anything at all about geography I doubt there are American teenagers who thinks that Africa and Asia is somehow the same continent. They may not know that India is considered Asia, but they would not think it´s part of Africa.
It sounded like a stereotype that had been thrown around at school. "Oh you are so dark skinned, are you part African?"
Also what really got to me was that it ended with the Hindu girl saying: "No I have to leave now, I have to go home and eat the rice my mom made. She cooked rice."
That too sounds like a stereotype that might be thrown around at school about Indians only eating rice as opposed to pizza and burgers etc.
Another thing, was that the Hindu girl was very calm throughout the whole thing, not even the least bit upset when they told her they couldn´t be friends anymore.
I think they were three friends youtubing a video where they were spoofing stereotypes.
Not to say that a lot of Evangelical Christians don´t believe this. But in this case...nah..
Maya
Caste system is a huge, huge problem in India. We have this bad tendency of taking all negative things in Hindu society and blaming it on "biased Western scholars". There are high and low castes among low castes. It's a severe problem
I repeat. "I don't know." You could be right. "I don't know." When I was there I didn't notice it. I believe you live in India, but I'm not sure. It is one sixth of the human population on this planet. Have you lived in all 15 states that have over 10 million people? I've also met many people who thought their version of Hinduism was the only version of Hinduism. So I'm never sure when someone makes a sweeping generalisation like this about India.
I do believe that distribution of wealth is a global problem. We have statistics that back this up. But things like caste, and caste based discrimination, I have little idea. According to this http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/ India is ranked 98th worst in malnutrition.
Last edited:
Almustafa
Member
the Dharmas, are not supposed to be "castes" they are supposed to be Dharmas (ways of life)
for example a king and a craftsmen have two different minds pointed towards different skill sets, a crafts men would make a terrible king, & a king would be a terrible craftsmen.
they are random, out of ignorance, indians made it a hereditary thing "since im a king, my son will be a king, & then his son" etc.
but really every persons dharma genetically instilled randomly at birth, it was chosen by God.
this is what happens when you put a religion in the hands of unenlightened teachers, they interpret it until the true meaning is lost...
for example a king and a craftsmen have two different minds pointed towards different skill sets, a crafts men would make a terrible king, & a king would be a terrible craftsmen.
they are random, out of ignorance, indians made it a hereditary thing "since im a king, my son will be a king, & then his son" etc.
but really every persons dharma genetically instilled randomly at birth, it was chosen by God.
this is what happens when you put a religion in the hands of unenlightened teachers, they interpret it until the true meaning is lost...
Namaste
UK recently passed an anti-discrimination law that forbids employers from discrimination against others based on caste (e.g. being a "low caste" for example and being discriminated against by public enterprises by owners who are "high caste", but also this protects any discrimination based on caste from others such as Muslim employers discriminating against someone of Indian origin who identifies as a caste including against Brahmins). This legislation was coming from the demand of the Indian and specifically Hindu and Dalit communities who were starting to face this in the UK.
In America, there is the HAF organization, also mostly Indian and Hindu, exploring civil rights issues of Hindus in the US.
I myself have faced caste discrimination here in the US, told directly by birth-only caste advocates of Brahminism exclusiveness that I should not be allowed to read the Vedas, and various examples of praising Manu and such "Law Books" as to punishments that should be dealt out to me if they had the power to do so, some rather extreme statements..
So it can happen even here if it is allowed.
But that is a long, long story. I have very close and immediate relations with Hinduism, India, relatives from India, it is a long, long story but also there is countless examples of welcoming to all as adoptees to Hinduism for Westerners.
Om Namah Sivaya
.
UK recently passed an anti-discrimination law that forbids employers from discrimination against others based on caste (e.g. being a "low caste" for example and being discriminated against by public enterprises by owners who are "high caste", but also this protects any discrimination based on caste from others such as Muslim employers discriminating against someone of Indian origin who identifies as a caste including against Brahmins). This legislation was coming from the demand of the Indian and specifically Hindu and Dalit communities who were starting to face this in the UK.
In America, there is the HAF organization, also mostly Indian and Hindu, exploring civil rights issues of Hindus in the US.
I myself have faced caste discrimination here in the US, told directly by birth-only caste advocates of Brahminism exclusiveness that I should not be allowed to read the Vedas, and various examples of praising Manu and such "Law Books" as to punishments that should be dealt out to me if they had the power to do so, some rather extreme statements..
So it can happen even here if it is allowed.
But that is a long, long story. I have very close and immediate relations with Hinduism, India, relatives from India, it is a long, long story but also there is countless examples of welcoming to all as adoptees to Hinduism for Westerners.
Om Namah Sivaya
.
And some Hindus objected because they rightly or wrongly claimed that caste based discrimination wasn't really a problem in the first place, and it was just the British government's way of negatively bringing the whole idea of caste back into the limelight. Not having an insider's look int the politics within the British Indian community, I really have no idea.
Namaste
Actally British members of Parliment and non-Indian politicians held up such legislation, many didn't want to go there. It took a lot of repeated demands to get it through.
In India itself, the British East India Company and the British Raj used caste to divide Indians against each other, they played up caste divisions to divide Indian against Indian to help maintain their power. There were other religious groups who preached against birth-based caste, not only Christians but of course Hindus, but the British overlords played up caste divisions and not the opposite of promoting equality.
Caste divisions, specifically the 6000 jati or caste which is not in the Vedas, became prominate later and was a major cause of weaking India to be subject to foreign invasion including from Islam. This is why the Hindu Nationalist movements of the early 1900's promoted unrestrictions based on cast, why membership and awarding the "Black Topi" or black cap of the RSS was open for all as equal Hindus regardless of caste and the founder of the RSS though a specific Brahmin heritage was against such discrimination of other Hindus.
I have been to India over a dozen times, there is still a problem. Indians in the UK do not want this problem in England. Those who are proponents of caste extremism are a minority among Hindus, but so are Jihadist terrorists among Islam. For Western Hindus, which I count myself among and stand with, as you actually dive deep and live Hinduism with Indians, you will see this problem. It has nothing to do with anti-Hindu propaganda albeit there are such propagandists. What is funny is, when I have encountered it, those who are such extremists pre-judged me immediately as a foreign, Western, mleecha, knowing nothing of my actual past nor my family but simply upon looks.
But in the end, only truth will triumph.
Om Namah Sivaya.
Actally British members of Parliment and non-Indian politicians held up such legislation, many didn't want to go there. It took a lot of repeated demands to get it through.
In India itself, the British East India Company and the British Raj used caste to divide Indians against each other, they played up caste divisions to divide Indian against Indian to help maintain their power. There were other religious groups who preached against birth-based caste, not only Christians but of course Hindus, but the British overlords played up caste divisions and not the opposite of promoting equality.
Caste divisions, specifically the 6000 jati or caste which is not in the Vedas, became prominate later and was a major cause of weaking India to be subject to foreign invasion including from Islam. This is why the Hindu Nationalist movements of the early 1900's promoted unrestrictions based on cast, why membership and awarding the "Black Topi" or black cap of the RSS was open for all as equal Hindus regardless of caste and the founder of the RSS though a specific Brahmin heritage was against such discrimination of other Hindus.
I have been to India over a dozen times, there is still a problem. Indians in the UK do not want this problem in England. Those who are proponents of caste extremism are a minority among Hindus, but so are Jihadist terrorists among Islam. For Western Hindus, which I count myself among and stand with, as you actually dive deep and live Hinduism with Indians, you will see this problem. It has nothing to do with anti-Hindu propaganda albeit there are such propagandists. What is funny is, when I have encountered it, those who are such extremists pre-judged me immediately as a foreign, Western, mleecha, knowing nothing of my actual past nor my family but simply upon looks.
But in the end, only truth will triumph.
Om Namah Sivaya.
ElizabethGould
Iik Onkaar
Sad given the long and important part Hinduism has played in Indian culture and history.
Do you have a link to the wording in the legislation, or was it like an amendment to existing legislation, and they added caste to race, gender, etc. Or was it a brand new law? I just need more information in order to have a complete idea.
The Brits are some to talk considering the class consciousness that exists in that society.
Namaste Vinayaka
* Yes, those who came into India, such as the British starting in the 17th Century, but not just the British but variations of Islamic cultures who were just as class oriented as the British and Dutch and this is a sentiment of most societies and not exclusive of the "Brits", and of course also existed in India, understood this divide and rule method very well, and PROMOTED "caste" as birth right and not simply conceptual ideation around wealth in social strata. *Before the 17th Century, there were 200 jati thereabouts, it rose to 6000 under the British who promoted stratification as part of divide and rule. *The Hindu Nationalists understood this and thus opposed it.
* It is still a problem today, though the extremists are the minority. *
One thing must be understood. *Western Hindus who are often demonized by such extremists do NOT have, nor have any agenda to tell some other Hindu they must "give up their caste". If a Brahmin wants to hold the title of such, and give the title to his son as a birth right (note, women are typically discriminated against no matter if Brahmin or not), do not expect a "Western Hindu" to tell this Brahmin otherwise, this isn't the issue here.
The Brahmin may retain any title, even if such is an extremist "by birth only" caste centric adherent. The issue is an extremist telling other Hindus such as myself that me and my children must be delegated to a demeaning profession or designated to only wash toilets or be rag pickers "by birth", that my daughter cannot be allowed to not only to read the Vedas but not be allowed an education, that I must be a servant to wash the Brahmin temple but not worship in it during puja, and I am by birth given a life sentence of exclusion because I am called by them a Shudra, or a Dalit, or no-caste, or mleecha. 6000 jati is man made and not Divine. The very word jati was not birth based caste, but description of different regional communities such as we use "Texans" or "New Yorkers" today.
Or as you used in your term "Brits".
They can become stereotypes, as can anything else. They are not castes.
The story of caste is a complicate one that would require a discussion of varna, jati, kuta, gotra and in proper context of it's own and not the "conversion" thread (e.g. conversion away from Hinduism). But it does pertain to this thread in one manner.
And that is, despite popular media to the contrary that such conversion away from Hinduism is towards Christianity, I will predict that the true historical trend in India regarding such conversion will likely continue in a direction not far from home at all but also in the soil of Mother India. I can tell you that leaders in major Sampradayas are working this issue, with meetings among many Sampradayas, with hope and notable progress. For those who leave Hinduism due to this issue, the trend will continue to benefit another tradition from India called Buddhism.
I am not a Buddhist. I am a Hindu.
Om Namah Sivaya
* Yes, those who came into India, such as the British starting in the 17th Century, but not just the British but variations of Islamic cultures who were just as class oriented as the British and Dutch and this is a sentiment of most societies and not exclusive of the "Brits", and of course also existed in India, understood this divide and rule method very well, and PROMOTED "caste" as birth right and not simply conceptual ideation around wealth in social strata. *Before the 17th Century, there were 200 jati thereabouts, it rose to 6000 under the British who promoted stratification as part of divide and rule. *The Hindu Nationalists understood this and thus opposed it.
* It is still a problem today, though the extremists are the minority. *
One thing must be understood. *Western Hindus who are often demonized by such extremists do NOT have, nor have any agenda to tell some other Hindu they must "give up their caste". If a Brahmin wants to hold the title of such, and give the title to his son as a birth right (note, women are typically discriminated against no matter if Brahmin or not), do not expect a "Western Hindu" to tell this Brahmin otherwise, this isn't the issue here.
The Brahmin may retain any title, even if such is an extremist "by birth only" caste centric adherent. The issue is an extremist telling other Hindus such as myself that me and my children must be delegated to a demeaning profession or designated to only wash toilets or be rag pickers "by birth", that my daughter cannot be allowed to not only to read the Vedas but not be allowed an education, that I must be a servant to wash the Brahmin temple but not worship in it during puja, and I am by birth given a life sentence of exclusion because I am called by them a Shudra, or a Dalit, or no-caste, or mleecha. 6000 jati is man made and not Divine. The very word jati was not birth based caste, but description of different regional communities such as we use "Texans" or "New Yorkers" today.
Or as you used in your term "Brits".
They can become stereotypes, as can anything else. They are not castes.
The story of caste is a complicate one that would require a discussion of varna, jati, kuta, gotra and in proper context of it's own and not the "conversion" thread (e.g. conversion away from Hinduism). But it does pertain to this thread in one manner.
And that is, despite popular media to the contrary that such conversion away from Hinduism is towards Christianity, I will predict that the true historical trend in India regarding such conversion will likely continue in a direction not far from home at all but also in the soil of Mother India. I can tell you that leaders in major Sampradayas are working this issue, with meetings among many Sampradayas, with hope and notable progress. For those who leave Hinduism due to this issue, the trend will continue to benefit another tradition from India called Buddhism.
I am not a Buddhist. I am a Hindu.
Om Namah Sivaya
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. It honestly has never happened to me.