How to Incite a Riot

[SomeRandom]

That's his quote. The left tends to be much more fractious and individualistic whereas the right tends to be all in with the current leader. Our media is full of people with strong opinions about what Biden should or must not do which is typical of Democrats.

Well I’ll agree with you there. The leftists seem almost eager to criticise the “leaders.” Which is probably why I like to pal around with them

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Interpretation is very broad these days.

I think people can incite those more gullible and manipulative whos view is that theres nothing less to lose. BLM riots were no different givin a lot of political clout supported that kind of behavior as those on the left did.

I unhesitatingly condemned the only incitement to riot that I saw, which was an NPR interview with an author who said looting was okay. NPR apologized for the interview and was widely criticized.

I also voted for Biden who clearly, repeatedly condemned rioting.

Please don’t change the subject to BLM. Two wrongs don’t make a right. And I never said rioting was okay - not then, not now. Okay?

Returning to the subject: clearly Trump didn’t explicitly tell people to riot. The point is his rhetoric was irresponsible in context. You don’t yell “fire” in a theater and you don’t say “bomb” on an airplane because it’s irresponsible.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's the right. Those of us on the left do the opposite.

The Left too has blind followers. This forum even has a few. Those like Obama can do no wrong, disagree with anything and your supposedly actually on the other side, even Religious Right has LW counterparts who are heavily saturated with guilt and judging everyone guilty just for existing.

 

[Shaul]

I have question. President Trump and his speech audience were at the south lawn of the White House, about a mile and a half away from the Capitol where the rioters were. Those that were rioting on the Capitol were not listening to his speech, nor could they have done so by any account. News sources reported that the rioters broke through the first barricades at 1:00. Trump’s speech started at about noon and last an hour and twelve minutes. At about the eighteen minutes point in the speech he said, “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol Building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” Hardly inciting to violence, quite the opposite. The purportedly inciting bit about “walking down Pennsylvania Avenue” the OP mentions occurred at the very end of his speech, after the rioting had already begun.

So how did President Trump incite them by speaking purported inciting words after they were already violent?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I have question. President Trump and his speech audience were at the south lawn of the White House, about a mile and a half away from the Capitol where the rioters were. Those that were rioting on the Capitol were not listening to his speech, nor could they have done so by any account. News sources reported that the rioters broke through the first barricades at 1:00. Trump’s speech started at about noon and last an hour and twelve minutes. At about the eighteen minutes point in the speech he said, “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol Building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” Hardly inciting to violence, quite the opposite. The purportedly inciting bit about “walking down Pennsylvania Avenue” the OP mentions occurred at the very end of his speech, after the rioting had already begun.

So how did President Trump incite them by speaking purported inciting words after they were already violent?

Thats something Trumps lawyers should address. Still Trump is done all the same either way.

I agree with those that Trump played a role of a symptom as opposed to the cause which is the real issue people ought to be focusing on.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have question. President Trump and his speech audience were at the south lawn of the White House, about a mile and a half away from the Capitol where the rioters were. Those that were rioting on the Capitol were not listening to his speech, nor could they have done so by any account. News sources reported that the rioters broke through the first barricades at 1:00. Trump’s speech started at about noon and last an hour and twelve minutes. At about the eighteen minutes point in the speech he said, “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol Building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” Hardly inciting to violence, quite the opposite. The purportedly inciting bit about “walking down Pennsylvania Avenue” the OP mentions occurred at the very end of his speech, after the rioting had already begun.

So how did President Trump incite them by speaking purported inciting words after they were already violent?

Your timeline is off. Let's go over the speech first. Trump once again lied by saying that he won. Do we agree so far?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Quotes and analysis of what Trump said on January 6, and why it was irresponsible even if he didn’t say “go riot”.


Trump urged his supporters to ‘fight much harder’ against ‘bad people’ and ‘show strength’ at the Capitol.


“Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we’re going to have to fight much harder. …

“We’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them, because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.”


The president’s speech was riddled with violent imagery and calls to fight harder than before. By contrast, he made only a passing suggestion that the protest should be nonviolent, saying, “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”


During Mr. Trump’s impeachment last year, one of his defenses was that the primary accusation against him — that he abused his power by withholding aid to Ukraine in an attempt to get its president to announce a corruption investigation into Mr. Biden — was not an ordinary crime, so it did not matter even if it were true. Most legal specialists said that made no difference for impeachment purposes, but in any case that argument would not be a defense here. Several laws clearly make it a crime to incite a riot or otherwise try to get another person to engage in a violent crime against property or people.


Trump told the crowd that ‘very different rules’ applied.


“When you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules. So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do, and I hope he doesn’t listen to the RINOs and the stupid people that he’s listening to.”


Whipping up anger against Republicans who were not going along with his plan for subverting the election, like Vice President Mike Pence, Mr. Trump told the crowd that “different rules” now applied. At the most obvious level, the president was arguing that what he wanted Mr. Pence to do — reject the state-certified Electoral College results — would be legitimate, but the notion of “very different rules” applying carried broader overtones of extraordinary permission as well. (“RINO” is a term of abuse used by highly partisan Republicans against more moderate colleagues they deem to be “Republicans in Name Only.”)


Trump insinuated that Republican officials, including Pence, would endanger themselves by accepting Biden’s win.


“I hope Mike is going to do the right thing. I hope so. I hope so, because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election. … And I actually — I just spoke to Mike. I said: ‘Mike, that doesn’t take courage. What takes courage is to do nothing. That takes courage.’”


“I also want to thank our 13 most courageous members of the U.S. Senate, Senator Ted Cruz, Senator Ron Johnson, Senator Josh Hawley. … Senators have stepped up. We want to thank them. I actually think, though, it takes, again, more courage not to step up, and I think a lot of those people are going to find that out. And you better start looking at your leadership, because your leadership has led you down the tubes.”


Mr. Trump twice told the crowd that Republicans who did not go along with his effort to overturn the election — Mr. Pence as well as senators like Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, who did not join in the performative objections led by Mr. Hawley and Mr. Cruz — were actually the ones being courageous. In context, the president’s implication is that they were putting themselves at risk because it would be safer to go along with what he wanted. During the ensuing riot, the mob chanted “Hang Mike Pence.”


Trump suggested that he wanted his supporters to stop the certification of Biden’s electoral win, not just protest it.


“We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved. Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore, and that is what this is all about. And to use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal. …


“You will have an illegitimate president. That is what you will have, and we can’t let that happen. These are the facts that you won’t hear from the fake news media. It’s all part of the suppression effort. They don’t want to talk about it. They don’t want to talk about it. …

“We fight like hell, and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”


Two months after he lost the election, Mr. Trump repeatedly told his followers that they could still stop Mr. Biden from becoming president if they “fight like hell,” a formulation that suggested they act and change things, not merely raise their voices in protest.


As he dispatched his supporters into what became deadly chaos, Trump falsely told them that he would come, too.


“Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you. … We are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give — the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote, but we are going to try — give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re try — going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.”


As he sicced his supporters on Congress, Mr. Trump assured them that he would personally accompany them to the Capitol. In fact, as several of his followers and police officers were being injured or dying in the ensuing chaos, the president was watching the violence play out on television from the safety of the White House.

Source: Incitement to Riot? What Trump Told Supporters Before Mob Stormed Capitol

I hereby nominate @Mr Spinkles to the Trump prosecution team! By gum, this is a trial I wanna see!

Sic 'em, Spinkles!

 

[Shaul]

Thats something Trumps lawyers should address. Still Trump is done all the same either way.

I agree with those that Trump played a role of a symptom as opposed to the cause which is the real issue people ought to be focusing on.

So the rationale for the Impeachment being floated about that he incited violence has no legs.

 

[Shaul]

Your timeline is off. Let's go over the speech first. Trump once again lied by saying that he won. Do we agree so far?

You went from the speech time line to trying to discuss its contents. The speech started around noon. There are recording showing it lasted an hour and twelve minutes. Just as I wrote. Washington Post reports (no friends of Trump) tweeted at 1:00 that the barricades were broken through. That is the time of the tweet. There could have been a delay between when the reporters tweeted about the breaking of the barricades and when it actually happened. In other words the barricades were breached before or no later than 1:00. Long before Trump spoke the purported inciting words. The timeline I described is correct.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You went from the speech time line to trying to discuss its contents. The speech started around noon. There are recording showing it lasted an hour and twelve minutes. Just as I wrote. Washington Post reports (no friends of Trump) tweeted at 1:00 that the barricades were broken through. That is the time of the tweet. There could have been a delay between when the reporters tweeted about the breaking of the barricades and when it actually happened. In other words the barricades were breached before or no later than 1:00. Long before Trump spoke the purported inciting words. The timeline I described is correct.

Like I said, your timeline is off. First things first.

 

[Shaul]

Like I said, your timeline is off. First things first.

It isn’t my timeline. It is independently verifiable times from independent sources.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It isn’t my timeline. It is independently verifiable times from independent sources.

And it is wrong. Also why is it so hard to accept a factual statement? From my previous post:

"Trump once again lied by saying that he won. Do we agree so far?"

 

[Twilight Hue]

So the rationale for the Impeachment being floated about that he incited violence has no legs.

Thing is interpretation is a funny thing. Trumps influence certainly played a role and those radical enough responded in their own way thinking Trump approved.

I dont think Trump expected the storming of the capital but it occurred nonetheless.

People can so easily build a scenario that they themselves have convinced that its true and acted on.

So many times I have to convince myself that not everything is as it appears to be.

 

[Shaul]

And it is wrong. Also why is it so hard to accept a factual statement? From my previous post:

"Trump once again lied by saying that he won. Do we agree so far?"

You, know, simply repeating something doesn’t make it so. Show which parts of the timeline are incorrect. If you can.

 

[Shaul]

Thing is interpretation is a funny thing. Trumps influence certainly played a role and those radical enough responded in their own way thinking Trump approved.

I dont think Trump expected the storming of the capital but it occurred nonetheless.

People can so easily build a scenario that they themselves have convinced that its true and acted on.

So many times I have to convince myself that not everything is as it appears to be.

Goat entrails time? Interpretations are like opinions, everyone has them. I suppose someone somewhere could interpret that the Leftists were the influence of the rioters. I was basing my comments on facts. Hypotheses non fingo.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You, know, simply repeating something doesn’t make it so. Show which parts of the timeline are incorrect. If you can.

You made the same error. And I have dealt with too many dishonest people. It is pointless to have a discussion with them. I have my sources ready. So one more time:

"Trump once again lied by saying that he won. Do we agree so far?"

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I have question. President Trump and his speech audience were at the south lawn of the White House, about a mile and a half away from the Capitol where the rioters were. Those that were rioting on the Capitol were not listening to his speech, nor could they have done so by any account. News sources reported that the rioters broke through the first barricades at 1:00. Trump’s speech started at about noon and last an hour and twelve minutes. At about the eighteen minutes point in the speech he said, “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol Building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” Hardly inciting to violence, quite the opposite. The purportedly inciting bit about “walking down Pennsylvania Avenue” the OP mentions occurred at the very end of his speech, after the rioting had already begun.

So how did President Trump incite them by speaking purported inciting words after they were already violent?

Whatever garbage source you have willingly believed has been lying to you, and you in turn passed this false rumor along as if it were fact. Period. (The alternative is against the forum rules for me to suggest.)

Here’s the minute by minute timeline @Shaul
Timeline: How One Of The Darkest Days In American History Unfolded

12:00. Trumps meandering inflammatory speech which goes on for just over an hour. There was only one time in his 1 hour and 11 minutes when the word “peaceful” come out of his mouth.
Here is the transcript of his anti-democracy spew on that day.
This is what Trump told supporters before many stormed Capitol Hill

This is a good spot to tell you about these things called cellphones and televisions, that let the presidents words be heard on the other side of the planet, before the first rioters headed for the Capital Building.

13:00 (1PM) - Counting the legal and repeatedly verified ballots begins at the Capital.

1:15PM. The first wheedling sentaors, purely out of greed and sucking up to their god-king Trump object to the counting. At the same time the remaining members of Trumps rioting insurgents leave his stage and walk toward the Capital Building (roughly 1 mile, so 1/2 an hour at a leisurely pace).

14:07 (2:07PM) - The first barricades get torn down. That’s right @Shaul , you were lied to by whatever “news” source you had been watching. I strongly suggest you never use them again.

14:16 - The first photos of the first rioters inside the Capital are tweeted out.

14:24 (2:24 p.m.) Trump tweets that Vice President "Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done." During Trump's speech earlier on the Ellipse, he also targeted Pence, saying, "We're going to have to fight much harder and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. If he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country because you're sworn to uphold our Constitution."

Etc...

etc....

etc....
This all of course ignores completely the years of lies and hate speech and inciting violence Chump has spewed since before he was elected, as well as the several months of unadultered lying about the election results, and requesting the crowd members to come to DC to fight against this “fraudulant election”. That is of course why the crowd was in the city in the first place. That is why some came armed. Even one guy (at least) who brought handcuffs (from another state) with the intent to hold congress persons hostage.

Now @Shaul - Can you say “Guilty?”.
Can you say “The punishment for treason is death?”.
Can you say “The punishment for insurrection or instigating insurrection is fines and up to 10 years in prison; as well as no chance for political office ever again?”

 

[Father Heathen]

Is this still debated among Americans? Even the nightly news in my country outright blamed The Donald for inciting the violence.

His supporters claim it was antifa in disguise; i.e. street hoodlums pulling off elite secret agent ****. Conservatives here tend to live in a cartoon fantasy.

 

[Father Heathen]

Dang. You Americastans treat your politicians the way we treat our sports teams. Blindly loyal to the bitter end

Because god (gays and abortion) and guns, mostly.

 

[SomeRandom]

His supporters claim it was antifa in disguise; i.e. street hoodlums pulling off elite secret agent ****. Conservatives here tend to live in a cartoon fantasy.

Lmao I saw that. Bit inconvenient that basically all the hardcore Trumpers went online to brag about their violence. Now they’re upset that they’ve being called Antifa by their brethren.
Couldn’t make this stuff up, Jesus