How to prove God.

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sorry, I really don’t see why your Moslem cousin and I can’t both be right?

Because your religions are mutually exclusive.
At least one of you is worshipping the wrong god. Or both.

Because we come from different faith traditions, have different names for God, perhaps read different scriptures, doesn’t imo make one of us right and the other wrong. I think of different religions as being like different languages; And I’m inclined to believe that God understands all languages equally, and that we are each free to form a relationship with our creator that is intimate and personal, and at the same time universal.

Not according to both doctrines.

As for strength and motivation, I had none at all; I was utterly defeated.

You had none. And then you found some through religion.

My strength and motivation has to come in that moment, from a power greater than myself.

Don't underestimate the power of belief. The belief itself need not be accurate or correct, to have real manifestation in terms of inspiration, motivation, mental strength or good ol' placebo effect.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Because your religions are mutually exclusive.
At least one of you is worshipping the wrong god. Or both.



Not according to both doctrines.



You had none. And then you found some through religion.



Don't underestimate the power of belief. The belief itself need not be accurate or correct, to have real manifestation in terms of inspiration, motivation, mental strength or good ol' placebo effect.

There is no wrong God for either of us to worship. There is only God.

You make some big assumptions about my religion, and that of our hypothetical Moslem brother. I'm not even sure what my religion is, but I take guidance from many sources, instructions from none. Besides, I prefer to look for similarities not differences. If someone is happy in their spiritual practice, I respect that; I do not consider it my place to correct or educate such a person.

I have no interest in looking for areas where doctrines diverge; doctrine and dogma make little appeal to me anyway. Love, faith, compassion, courage, the sincere pursuit of wisdom, and of God's will; these I consider to be the things of enduring spiritual value. These things may be sought by people of all faiths, and none.

I will never underestimate the power of belief. I have seen what it can do.

 

[Spirit of Light]

ROTFLMAO

And yet, here we are, on an internet message board being bombarded by attempts at proving gods existence.....

Though I am not sure how your bold empty claim about what god needs has to do with god not being a fact....

Maybe it is a human need problem the need to prove the God one believe in must be the right one
What if it is the left one that is the right one

 

[rational experiences]

Machines built owned designed strings to God earth. Matter. Then building changed the nature earth to manipulate it to build machine.

Already the thesis design is changed. Theoried first in natural.

O a planet is one that created its owned stone gases. Said the theist scientist men.

Theory atmosphere natural. You are natural first a human.

The highest spirit is the coldest. Says the theist a man living. Knowing what supports life.

Clear.

So you cannot see this God spirit. It is the highest.

Your machine transmits.

It encoded by its transmitters. Machine to machine. Machines exploded machine then finished. Voice human recorded transmits. Image human recorded transmits.

Man transmits man. Theories about it. Stories.

Father is first the highest natural human deceased. Our human wisdom advised.

Is recorded. You hear him as you are a man.

I am female I hear female. Suddenly I hear father. Native American Indian. Not my DNA. So I am better informed.

Knowing he is not God.

Father said after ice age he was not the scientist. The baby adult brother was.

Reinvented what he heard speaking as old man pre existing voice. Scientists. Science history men on earth. Science existed was destroyed. Science returned chosen.

Father said natural is natural as a huge mass. Anywhere.

Men speak and speak and speak explaining their reasonings. About creation. Then give huge informed statements to a single symbol.

Then take symbols claiming it represents all form. Which is an outright lie.

Says I claim such and such became something new. Strings evolving. Meaning the old first thought upon pre existing no longer exists.

I.e. a monkey became a human. Where is the monkey if you added onto it? Saying what I believe must be added to the monkey to make it human.

Comparing both bodies.
+Add the fake cross.

What sacrificed him? + The cross.

Addition to add first when I personally never created it or owned it. An outright lie. False ideal pretending I created by my words and by my thinking.

If someone says your beginning was the big bang blast he would be equating I will end you by the big bang blast. In speaking truth. Just words.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So you don't consider gravity a fact?

It's not. It's a theory. Yes, we know that, on earth, if we drop something it won't float off into see space.
Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation tells us:

"Every point mass attracts every single point mass by a force pointing along the line intersecting both points. The force is directly proportional to the product of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses."


While the law lets us calculate quite a bit about what happens, notice that it does not tell us anything about WHY it happens.
For gravity, we use Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to explain why things fall.

It's subject to change depending on new discoveries.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Do you think God is a fact? You're referring to it as if it exists.

I think he is a fact, but that's not proof. Most people on the face of the earth believe God exists in some form. Why?
It seems almost inborn.
But God himself says he must be accepted on faith.

 

[Wildswanderer]

We do not live in a world of blind random causation because organisms have evolved sufficient complexity to go beyond just random causation.

Rotflmao.
What starts as random causation can not make itself intelligent. That's like saying a car accident can create a new car from the parts. Except in this case there are no parts. An accidental creation cannot be said to have coherent intelligence. You can not trust your mind in such a reality. It's just doing what it can't help but do.

Some athiests are honest enough to admit this.

"In the absence of will, what we have left is a system of massive mutual programmability. The logic of evolution has rendered us hyper-social, constantly monitoring our surroundings for behavioural clues which get fed into our self-corrective systems. Through the marvel of neural mirroring, we mentally experience the actions of others as our own. We fire all the preparatory neurons as if we were doing the actions ourselves, stopping just short of physical re-enactment. We do not merely observe others – we become them. Each human is a shifting conglomeration of influences – a tangle of other people’s actions and emotions woven around a genetically and epigenetically forged chemical system of evaluation."
By Dale DeBakcsy

 

[Aupmanyav]

It's subject to change depending on new discoveries.

Of course, scientific theories are liable to change but rarely completely abandoned as the theory of ether. It is modified with respect to the new information. It is not that the theory of evolution or the theory of relativity has been abandoned or even the Big Bang. There have been modifications. And why should not theories be modified? Why should we be stuck to centuries old theories for which there is no evidence?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I think he is a fact, but that's not proof. Most people on the face of the earth believe God exists in some form. Why?
It seems almost inborn.
But God himself says he must be accepted on faith.

There is hardly anything inborn except a few inborn reflexes developed by evolution. Most people on the face of the earth have left-over ideas from stone age.They don't have courage to abandon them. The rest is learnt by the child from his interaction with elders and with the world.

Reflex - Wikipedia

 

[F1fan]

Religion also becomes more accurate over time......
#273 Trailblazer, Today at 5:58 PM

but it doesn't help anyone of nobody looks at the new data and improvements.

Only when religion adjusts it's dogma to fit science, like when the Catholic Church threw out their Aristotle model of the universe and adopted Galileo's. And when the Church accepted evolution, even though many right wing Protestant sects reject evolution and try to falsely promote creationism.

 

[F1fan]

Are we as humans supposed to "improve" Gods words when we find words in the teaching we do not agree on or dislike?

To say "God's words" is what humans say and is likely as error, so yes, change your religious views to better reflect reason, facts, and science.

Thats like saying "Shut up God i know this better than you" i believe we should change our self, and not try to change God to fit in to our image of what we want it to be.

Well then you try yourself with the words of an incompetent God, because an actual God would who what is true about reality. When religious texts and beliefs are contrary to what we learn about reality then the religious views have been wrong. If you refuse to adjust, well that's an indication of a bad religion, or bad believers, or both.

 

[F1fan]

15 pages in and has anyone proved god yet?

No. But we have learned that God isn't a fact since it isn't proven to exist outside of human imagination.

 

[Spirit of Light]

To say "God's words" is what humans say and is likely as error, so yes, change your religious views to better reflect reason, facts, and science.


Well then you try yourself with the words of an incompetent God, because an actual God would who what is true about reality. When religious texts and beliefs are contrary to what we learn about reality then the religious views have been wrong. If you refuse to adjust, well that's an indication of a bad religion, or bad believers, or both.

I can only say that i found truth in the spiritual teaching i follow in Sufism, it happens from within me, My physical eyes do not see the truth as it really are, due to i still have an ego and a vail in front of wisdom, only when those are gone may i know and understand the full truth.

 

[leroy]

Says the cdesign proponentsists

That is my point, you are in “attack mode” from what I’ve seen in this forum, you seem to be more interested in defending atheism rather than looking at both views objectively.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That is my point, you are in “attack mode” from what I’ve seen in this forum, you seem to be more interested in defending atheism rather than looking at both views objectively.

No.

I just can't stand obvious intellectual dishonesty.
And I am by far not the only one to notice.
Even your fellow christians noticed it and brought it to your attention.

Having said that, the point you made goes for yourself as well.
But as usual, you act as if you are exempt from all the rules you make up for others.

 

[F1fan]

You must have understood what I meant by what I said. I meant that God reveals more in every new age but most people don't like anything new so they reject what God reveals.

Exce[pt a God doesn't;t reveal anything. By your claims it is God's messengers. And since humans are these messengers, and humans are fallible and prone to error, we other humans can't just believe those who claim to be messengers. So no one has any basis for credible belief. It's all about what sounds good to a person. And they have their own intellectual authority to reject what some guy says even though he claims to be God's messenger. That could be any fruitcake claiming such a thing.

That's like saying "Shut up God, I do not want to hear any more from you because I already know all there is to know."

If an actual God comes forth then your point is credible. But Gods never come forward except in the minds of some folks, who may be mistaken.

So you should be truthful and write:

That's like saying "Shut up God's messenger, I do not want to hear any more from you because I already know a lot that's factual, and what you claim in not consistent with facts, reason, and knowledge."

 

[F1fan]

I can only say that i found truth in the spiritual teaching i follow in Sufism, it happens from within me, My physical eyes do not see the truth as it really are, due to i still have an ego and a vail in front of wisdom, only when those are gone may i know and understand the full truth.

The truth and meaning YOU find might be awesome for you, but not good enough for anyone else. So I suggest a humility that understands you done't speak for anyone else beyond the confines of your own melon. That is a very difficult endeavor, and a flaw that erodes any truth we think we have.

The harder we seek truth, and think we've found a final truth, the farther away we get from it.

Facts and science extends to the whole of the universe. Our personnel meaning ends at our skull.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The truth and meaning YOU find might be awesome for you, but not good enough for anyone else. So I suggest a humility that understands you done't speak for anyone else beyond the confines of your own melon. That is a very difficult endeavor, and a flaw that erodes any truth we think we have.

The harder we seek truth, and think we've found a final truth, the farther away we get from it.

Facts and science extends to the whole of the universe. Our personnel meaning ends at our skull.

I speak only for my self, i can not and will not speak for what others should believe in, i thought i had made that very clear in the past too.

 

[Wildswanderer]

There is hardly anything inborn except a few inborn reflexes developed by evolution. Most people on the face of the earth have left-over ideas from stone age.They don't have courage to abandon them. The rest is learnt by the child from his interaction with elders and with the world.

Reflex - Wikipedia

Doesn't wash. Even people who aren't raised with religion believe God exists.
That doesn't come from the stone age.

We are no more enlightened, anyway, just more arrogant, IMO, if we think we just clawed our way up out of the muck.

 

[leroy]

No.

I just can't stand obvious intellectual dishonesty.
And I am by far not the only one to notice.
Even your fellow christians noticed it and brought it to your attention.

Having said that, the point you made goes for yourself as well.
But as usual, you act as if you are exempt from all the rules you make up for others.

Looking at the evidence openly and with as little bias as possible is not intellectual dishonesty.

All you need is pray, ask God for reasons to believe and keep an open mind (and an open hart)…if God exists he will eventually lead you to the evidence that you need. If he doesn’t exist, then nothing happens.

From my observations in this forum, you don’t seem interested in looking at the evidence with an open mind, you are more like in “attack mode” as if you were a lawyer.