How to prove God.

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, many tribes believe/used to believe in spirits of forests, spirit of water, spirit of various animals, some were considered their ancestors. Stone age superstition being carried on to 21st Century, IMHO. There are prehistoric drawings from caves. And burials colored with red ochre.
Homo heidelbergensis 700,000 - 200,000 years ago (i.e., before modern humans arrived on the stage).
Good that you realize that we are arrogant (regarding our individual views) and not enlightened.

Bust of a Homo heidelbergensis at the Natural History Museum, London.

 

[Aupmanyav]

All you need is pray, ask God for reasons to believe and keep an open mind (and an open hart)…if God exists he will eventually lead you to the evidence that you need. If he doesn’t exist, then nothing happens.

Most of the atheists were theists at one time or the other. I was a theist for half my life. No God led me evidence for his existence. Would you say that only the Christian God is true and all the rest are false, that is why I did not get any evidence.

 

[F1fan]

Doesn't wash. Even people who aren't raised with religion believe God exists.
That doesn't come from the stone age.

There are reasons for this. That a child isn't exposed to religion in the home they are exposed to it in their society as a whole. This is why religion is largely a geographic phenomenon. So a child will hear about other citizens religious beliefs and adopt those if they want to built a connection with those people. Humans evolved to conform to tribal norms and beliefs.

We are no more enlightened, anyway, just more arrogant, IMO, if we think we just clawed our way up out of the muck.

How is it arrogant to look at the facts of how life evolved over billions or years? I suggest it's arrogant to assume a fallible mortal can know a God exists despite no evidence to lead a rational person to that conclusion.

 

[leroy]

You are still evading my main question. In recent posts you are saying you accept natural evolution but as the collection of multiple natural just random mutation events or at least that is how I interpreted your posts. Just so I am not misinterpreting, is that your interpretation without divine (ID) intervention or not?

You are still evading my main question. In recent posts you are saying you accept natural evolution but as the collection of multiple natural just random mutation events or at least that is how I interpreted your posts. Just so I am not misinterpreting, is that your interpretation without divine (ID) intervention or not?

Yes I believe that God intervenes in some way (both in cosmology and biology), it seems to me that God uses natural mechanisms as a tool.


If you have sufficient knowledge you can predict when an apple will fall from tree and put a basket under the tree in order to collect that apple.

My view is that this is morels analogous to how God interacts with the world.

 

[leroy]

Most of the atheists were theists at one time or the other. I was a theist for half my life. No God led me evidence for his existence. Would you say that only the Christian God is true and all the rest are false, that is why I did not get any evidence.

Interesting, and how old where you when you decided to reject theism? What happened?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Looking at the evidence openly and with as little bias as possible is not intellectual dishonesty.

If you actually do it, indeed.
You don't though. As evidenced in the @tas8831 thread concerning Sanford, where your dishonest ways were exposed and laid out for all to see in the last couple posts.

I'm not sure if it is on purpose or not... but your confirmation bias is glaringly obvious in all arguments you make.

All you need is pray, ask God for reasons to believe and keep an open mind (and an open hart)…if God exists he will eventually lead you to the evidence that you need. If he doesn’t exist, then nothing happens.

And if it works, then I can believe in god (on faith, because this "test" means nothing as it can't distinguish between self-delusion, mistakes, hallucination and the real thing).
And if it doesn't work, then "I didn't do it right". Or "my mind wasn't open enough". Or "I'm a silly closed minded atheist". Or whatever. Because for some reason, the option "therefor god doesn't exist" simply does not exist in this test apparantly.

This is an idiotic test.

From my observations in this forum, you don’t seem interested in looking at the evidence with an open mind, you are more like in “attack mode” as if you were a lawyer.

I'm interested in evidence.
This "test" isn't evidence.

This "test" rather is "heads I win, tails you lose".

I'm sorry, but my standards are just a tiny bit higher then this mumbo jumbo.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Most of the atheists were theists at one time or the other. I was a theist for half my life. No God led me evidence for his existence.

Following @leroy 's "logic", this would mean any of the following:
- you didn't do it right
- you're too closed minded
- you didn't wait long enough


In no way can this mean that god doesn't exist. That is not an option in his mind.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Interesting, and how old where you when you decided to reject theism? What happened?

He just told you what happened. He found that he had no reason to believe, due to reason and lack of evidence.

 

[Wildswanderer]

How is it arrogant to look at the facts of how life evolved over billions or years? I suggest it's arrogant to assume a fallible mortal can know a God exists despite no evidence to lead a rational person to that conclusion.

So 93% of the people on the Earth are irrational but you are rational?

 

[McBell]

So 93% of the people on the Earth are irrational but you are rational?

How did you come up with that number 93?

IMO 100% of the world's human population are irrational.
That is simply a truth of any emotionally dominated species.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So 93% of the people on the Earth are irrational but you are rational?

Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy.

All humans are fallible. We all have the same psychological weaknesses. We all fall prey to cognition errors.
Some of us more then others. But none of us can escape our human nature.

 

[leroy]

If you actually do it, indeed.
.

Well form what I have observed, it seems to me that your are not even interested in understanding the arguments. In most of the cases you are not even capable of spotting your points of disagreement.

When atheist make a positive case at least I have the courtesy of explaining my specific points of disagreement,

 

[Wildswanderer]

How did you come up with that number 93?

IMO 100% of the world's human population are irrational.
That is simply a truth of any emotionally dominated species.

According to sociologists Ariela Keysar and Juhem Navarro-Rivera's review of numerous global studies on atheism, there are 450 to 500 million positive atheists and agnostics worldwide (7% of the world's population), with China having the most atheists in the world (200 million convinced atheists).

 

[Wildswanderer]

Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy.

All humans are fallible. We all have the same psychological weaknesses. We all fall prey to cognition errors.
Some of us more then others. But none of us can escape our human nature.

But you just essentially said that belief in God is irrational.

 

[tas8831]

So 93% of the people on the Earth are irrational but you are rational?

Cool argument... for children.

 

[McBell]

According to sociologists Ariela Keysar and Juhem Navarro-Rivera's review of numerous global studies on atheism, there are 450 to 500 million positive atheists and agnostics worldwide (7% of the world's population), with China having the most atheists in the world (200 million convinced atheists).

Ah...
So instead of actually addressing the points, you prefer to attack a strawman over your feeling being hurt?

 

[Trailblazer]

Cool argument... for children.

No, it is better for adults who have good math abilities.

 

[F1fan]

So 93% of the people on the Earth are irrational but you are rational?

Your stat sounds high. Even religious affiliation is dropping in the USA way below that. If you read about the biology of belief and learn about how the human brain evolved to believe then you'd understand why tribal belief is so prevalent. This is the phenomenon called "wired for God" and it's estimated that about 85% of humans have brains that are attracted to religious belief and the religion they adopt from their social experience.

No one comes to an objective conclusion a God exists via facts and reasoning. People believe because they are predisposed genetically to believe and usually adopt specific or general beliefs of their culture or community.

 

[Bear Wild]

Yes I believe that God intervenes in some way (both in cosmology and biology), it seems to me that God uses natural mechanisms as a tool.


If you have sufficient knowledge you can predict when an apple will fall from tree and put a basket under the tree in order to collect that apple.

My view is that this is morels analogous to how God interacts with the world.

So you made its sound like you were only arguing against just random mutations when your real agenda was to slip in a god. It is true that Odin helped form the earth but I have not ever heard you reference him yet.

If you are slipping Odin into the picture or some other god you have to explain some question. If you have the answers or evidence you then have an argument otherwise you position fails.

1. How often does a god intervene with the genetic material. Is it once every 7 days, every 100 days, or everyday all of the time? What is your evidence?

2. Does god manipulate every organism or only the few god wants to work on and what is your evidence?

3. If god has control why in the world would a god be so malicious to not correct genetic disorders. A god in control of evolution has to take responsibility for all of the good and the bad that occurs. Why would that god allow for cancers to form if that god is so powerful and in control?

4. Do you have any example were an organism where we have enough understanding of their genetic material changed so much that it is unexplainable by natural means?. Genetic sequence in an organism that is totally novel and could not have occured by epigenetics, transposons, natural engineering or mutations?

Your claim that Odin or a god is involved should be able to answer these four questions!

 

[F1fan]

But you just essentially said that belief in God is irrational.

It is. No one comes to a rational conclusion that any Gods exist. Theists know what they believe but don't know why they believe it. We see this in most every discussion we have about religion. The reasons believers give for their belief is never rational. Some claim evidence, but as we discover the evidence is exceptionally subjective and weak, and useless for an argument.