How to Serve the Word in Christianity

[DNB]

It's not good enough to just believe in Jesus, you must also abide by his teachings and do as he did. There are different ways to be saved in the Bible, because it depends on what idols are placed ahead of love for God. Jesus was very clear on his desire for the least to be first, to be served first, etc. Those that rest on their laurels and think they should get the best because they are rich, educated, exalted in society, etc are wrong. Joel Osteen is going to have an interesting eternity; not one that he is expecting.

To be sincerely convicted of a particular principle or religion, necessitates the adherence of it - as James said '...to believe, is to act upon it...'

 

[DNB]

I’m coming from the position that it is very difficult to receive the Word and you have the view that countless individuals have received it. Do you not agree that the Word is God? Would you say that countless individuals have received God?

We should remember that there is a wide path and a narrow path. We are to seek the narrow path.

The Word is not God, the Word is God's will, and in the case of the Bible, it is God's Word in written form.

 

[DNB]

Is ”what counts” for what…?

To “serve” in a Christian sense, is to selflessly be of service to whomever one comes across - it is to live purely for others. Servitude that stems from self-interest (like a desire for God) is something different.

In your comment here, you speak of things like “benefit” and [personal] salvation. That puts all focus on the self and focus on the self is precisely what the Christian Word is not about.

The Word may dwell within, but is never reached through self-focus.


Humbly,
Hermit

In the context of the OP - one must save themselves first, before they can save others.

 

[PearlSeeker]

The idea is not to serve the self. It’s to serve the least even if that includes the self. It’s a moving target.

Christ commands to love your neighbor as yourself. The command is not to love your neighbor more than yourself. When we focus on one, we inevitably neglect the other. The one who is neglected becomes the least.

That's true. An example of neglecting the self is the burnout syndrome.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Who we are, is who we are with others.
Our interactions define us.

Where 2 or 3 are gathered... no within, without

Bruce Lee said:

"Self-knowledge involves relationship. To know oneself is to study one self in action with another person. Relationship is a process of self evaluation and self revelation. Relationship is the mirror in which you discover yourself — to be is to be related."

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

In the context of the OP - one must save themselves first, before they can save others.

I’d say that Christianity follows the ideals of Christ* and that Christ did not “save [him]self first”. Christ saved others by self sacrifice.

*) Man is of course not Christ, but the aim of a Christian is to try to conduct themselves as Christlike as humanly possible.


Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Apostle John]

You don’t need to gain entrance into the Kingdom. It’s your birthright since you have a soul. It belongs to you. If something belongs to me, I’m not going to accept conditions in order to receive it. I’m going to demand it as soon as I desire it. Let’s start there.

Now, I recognize that I’ve been separated from it, but since it belongs to me, at the level of identity, it calls to me. THAT is the Word.

I’m sorry but no one gains entrance into heaven if they haven't accepted the Lord Jesus as Saviour for their sins, accept infant children who aren’t knowledgeable enough about sin.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I’m sorry but no one gains entrance into heaven if they haven't accepted the Lord Jesus as Saviour for their sins, accept infant children who aren’t knowledgeable enough about sin.

I seem to recall a different version in recent Catholic doctrine.

 

[Ella S.]

In other words, what you serve you will become like. I don’t know what else to say about it. It’s just how reality works.

Because of this, to serve the least is a test of faith. Following Christ will test our faith.

The point is that Christ was serving them as fellow humans. So in that context, by serving them and raising them up from their degradation, you would be becoming human and rescued from the degradation of sin.

You would not be degrading yourself by helping others. How demeaning and condescending that perspective is, to the point that it undermines whatever "help" you give

 

[Windwalker]

Eternal life. Fulfillment. Death defeated. The union of heaven and earth. Oneness. Wholeness. Justice.

So do I, in so many words. So then why do you think you understand something I do not? Why do you speak condescendingly towards me, saying you've been where I've been, when you don't understand what it is I believe or experience?

 

[metis]

The Word is not God, the Word is God's will, and in the case of the Bible, it is God's Word in written form.

Is the Bhagavad Gita "God's Word" as well? Just asken for a friend.

 

[Windwalker]

I’d say that Christianity follows the ideals of Christ* and that Christ did not “save [him]self first”. Christ saved others by self sacrifice.

*) Man is of course not Christ, but the aim of a Christian is to try to conduct themselves as Christlike as humanly possible.

But to be Christlike would mean that we need to "save ourselves" from not being Christlike. Otherwise, how can you love others as yourself, if you do not first understand what self-love is, or to "be love", as was the Christ? If you don't possess self-love, how can you give what you don't have in the first place to others?

Putting the cart in front of the horse doesn't work that well.

 

[Windwalker]

I’m sorry but no one gains entrance into heaven if they haven't accepted the Lord Jesus as Saviour for their sins, accept infant children who aren’t knowledgeable enough about sin.

So would that exception also apply to adults who don't understand or are knowledgeable enough about sin too? Don't you think that most people are just as naive as little children are about such things?

Didn't Jesus at one point even forgive adults who didn't know any better about what they were doing, without them even asking for forgiveness? I seem to recall that was some of the last words he spoke as he was dying. Wasn't that making an exception too, for the same reasons, that they "aren't knowledgeable enough about sin"?

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

But to be Christlike would mean that we need to "save ourselves" from not being Christlike. Otherwise, how can you love others as yourself, if you do not first understand what self-love is, or to "be love", as was the Christ? If you don't possess self-love, how can you give what you don't have in the first place to others?

Putting the cart in front of the horse doesn't work that well.

I’d say that this sort of paradox stems from not applying the spiritual meaning of “self”.

In general; any study of religious scripture that does not take into account its spiritual aspect, can only really result in nonsensical interpretation and paradox.

The spiritual “self” is not your person, your body or your individual, worldly predicament. The “self” here is that which, beyond worldly manifestation, is One. The “self” in biblical terms, is us all.

In context of these sort of things, there is no difference between you and I. Your misfortunes and blessings are everyone’s.

By serving yourself, you remain the centre of your own reality and struggle to surpass the perspective of your own predicaments.
By serving those you encounter, you allow for a broader experience, which with practice and time, enables you to see that “you” were never what you might have thought you were in the first place - you were never a position, a body, a predicament.

There was never a “you” to serve. And one way to discover this (the way that Christ recommends) is by the wholehearted service to others.


Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Apostle John]

So would that exception also apply to adults who don't understand or are knowledgeable enough about sin too? Don't you think that most people are just as naive as little children are about such things?

Didn't Jesus at one point even forgive adults who didn't know any better about what they were doing, without them even asking for forgiveness? I seem to recall that was some of the last words he spoke as he was dying. Wasn't that making an exception too, for the same reasons, that they "aren't knowledgeable enough about sin"?

I believe it could apply to adults with severe learning disabilities who cannot understand the concept of sin but certainly not most people who can think.
When Jesus said on the cross, ”forgive them for they know not what they do”, that wasn’t forgiveness for the sins of the people He was referring to because they hadn’t accepted Who He was then. That comment was demonstrating His perfection of showing forgiveness to enemies and not their sin.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

The point is that Christ was serving them as fellow humans. So in that context, by serving them and raising them up from their degradation, you would be becoming human and rescued from the degradation of sin.

You would not be degrading yourself by helping others. How demeaning and condescending that perspective is, to the point that it undermines whatever "help" you give

You are equating helping someone with being a servant to them. These two are not the same. Serving is a much deeper idea. It happens within the context of hierarchy. I don’t care to expound further. I’m out.

Edit: Last thing. You are right that he is elevating those whose feet he is washing. Both are happening. He is lowering himself and elevating the other. We are to see ourselves in both positions. This thread was focused on one side of it.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

You are equating helping someone with being a servant to them. These two are not the same. Serving is a much deeper idea. It happens within the context of hierarchy. I don’t care to expound further. I’m out.

Edit: Last thing. You are right that he is elevating those whose feet he is washing. Both are happening. He is lowering himself and elevating the other. We are to see ourselves in both positions. This thread was focused on one side of it.

When he noticed how the guests picked the places of honor at the table, he told them this parable: “When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

In this parable, Jesus assumes hierarchy. He doesn’t say all seats at the wedding banquet are equal. He is saying to lower yourself.

When we serve the least, we are placing ourselves below the one at the bottom of the hierarchy. If you tell yourself that there is no hierarchy or that the one at the bottom of the hierarchy is not degraded, then you are deluding yourself.

 

[Windwalker]

I’d say that this sort of paradox stems from not applying the spiritual meaning of “self”.

I don't think that applies in the context of what Jesus was speaking about. "The love your neighbor as yourself," was to summarize the Law and the Prophets commandments, which had to do with how we treat other individuals, such as not stealing their goats, or coveting their wife, lying to them, etc. The "self" that is the focus there is their individual egoic selves, not their Atman, or their True Self, or their Christ Consciousness. But that's not to say that when we can see that they are more than just their egoic selves, and we can see the Divine in them, that does not apply, which it of course does.

But technically, you don't need to love your Atman, or your true Self, as that IS love itself, as it is the divine Nature, or the "Christ in you", which is Love itself. You do however have to "Love yourself" in the sense of self-forgiveness of the ego's shortcomings and sins, an acceptance of one's human nature and not a rejection of it as dirty and awful, and trying to disown yourself. All of that is about the ego and letting go of self-condemnation and self-loathing, which manifests itself as hatred towards others.

We all have an ego, but there is legitimately a healthy ego, which is necessary and good in order to function as a human being in societal relationships, and an unhealthy, or damaged ego. The teachings of forgiveness, is directed to healing the damaged ego, and making it healthy. Then.... once the ego has been healed, it can more easily allow the true Self, or the spiritual nature to breathe Life and Love into it, which then is able to "forgive others and we forgive ourselves," or "love your neighbor as yourself.

In general; any study of religious scripture that does not take into account its spiritual aspect, can only really result in nonsensical interpretation and paradox.

Actually, when you start encountering paradox, you know you are on the right track. If you can resolve it rationally, then you're not dealing with the nondual, but your dealing with the dualistic mind instead.

The spiritual “self” is not your person, your body or your individual, worldly predicament. The “self” here is that which, beyond worldly manifestation, is One. The “self” in biblical terms, is us all.

As I pointed out, that is not the context of the "two great commandments", which have to do with your individual ego in relationship with both itself and with other individual egos. Enlightenment, or knowing the Self, is not how you fulfill "the law and the prophets". But being receptive to divine Love is. "Love works no ill." If you are filled with love in yourself, you won't attack or harm others.

By serving yourself, you remain the centre of your own reality and struggle to surpass the perspective of your own predicaments.

By taking care of yourself first, you are then able to actually help and be of service to others. But not before that. Think of it like putting on your oxygen mask in an airplane. You need to put yours on first so you can breathe, before you can help others. If you pass out, nobody is helped. If you want to help others, you need to be healed first.

By serving those you encounter, you allow for a broader experience, which with practice and time, enables you to see that “you” were never what you might have thought you were in the first place - you were never a position, a body, a predicament.

There is a path of service as one of the 5 yogas, that works towards that end. I'm not saying you can't heal yourself by helping others, but that may not be the best path, or effective at all for others who need a different type of path. The ego can actually never be dealt with as someone is always out there trying to save everyone else, as a way to avoid looking within.

How many of our RF saviors do you know that fit that scenario? The louder the preaching, the greater the avoidance of confronting themselves.

There was never a “you” to serve. And one way to discover this (the way that Christ recommends) is by the wholehearted service to others.

Yes it can be. But I believe he also teaches other ways as well, such as forgiveness, letting go, surrender of the ego, and so forth. Those are all there as well. In fact, I think he pretty much covers the five basic yogas found in Hinduism, except of any explicit mention of the physical of hatha yoga. Certainly if you look these over, you can see these taught in scripture as well as Karma yoga, or the path of service to others you mention.

The 5 Traditional Paths of Yoga - Travis Eliot

EPISODE 35 - The 5 Traditional Paths of Yoga The word yoga

traviseliot.com

 

[Windwalker]

I believe it could apply to adults with severe learning disabilities who cannot understand the concept of sin but certainly not most people who can think.

Someone can be brilliant in certain areas of their lives, but completely incompetent in other areas. I'd argue that very people truly are self-aware enough to recognize their own shortcomings, or "sins". I'd say they are largely naive about it. So that really has nothing to do with their IQs. It has to do with what that are aware of or not aware of.

When Jesus said on the cross, ”forgive them for they know not what they do”, that wasn’t forgiveness for the sins of the people He was referring to because they hadn’t accepted Who He was then. That comment was demonstrating His perfection of showing forgiveness to enemies and not their sin.

So he wasn't actually forgiving those who had just crucified him in their ignorance? But isn't God forgiving someone, forgiveness of sins? Are you say he forgave them, but not really? He was just saying that because he should forgive others for sinning in their ignorance, but didn't really mean it? It was for effect?

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

not a rejection of it as dirty and awful, and trying to disown yourself.

I’d say that it is here where I see that you have misread what I wrote.

For to live selflessly is not to belittle or degrade oneself. Nor is it to see oneself as “dirty”, “awful”, etc. That would be self-hatred and I agree; self-hatred -like all hatred- is destructive in every way.

To live selflessly (in the ‘image’ of Christ, if you are Christian) is to live in the knowledge that the “self” simply is not [you].

There is no one in the “self” to love/hate/deny. But to assert the [empty] “self” -though it can feel empowering in a worldly way- does obstruct one’s ability to live selflessly and experience spiritual unity within worldliness.


Humbly,
Hermit