How to Serve the Word in Christianity

[Apostle John]

Someone can be brilliant in certain areas of their lives, but completely incompetent in other areas. I'd argue that very people truly are self-aware enough to recognize their own shortcomings, or "sins". I'd say they are largely naive about it. So that really has nothing to do with their IQs. It has to do with what that are aware of or not aware of.

I was discussing who will enter heaven, unfortunately naivety of not knowing the Gospel or what it means will not be an excuse.

 

[DNB]

I’d say that Christianity follows the ideals of Christ* and that Christ did not “save [him]self first”. Christ saved others by self sacrifice.

*) Man is of course not Christ, but the aim of a Christian is to try to conduct themselves as Christlike as humanly possible.


Humbly,
Hermit

One can only do that provided that they've accepted Christ as Lord & Saviour - for one who only regards Jesus, at best, as a prophet or good man, will not adhere to his precepts as a standard of living, but merely as an option under convenient circumstances.

 

[DNB]

Is the Bhagavad Gita "God's Word" as well? Just asken for a friend.

Not in my opinion - God is not divided in thought nor will - there is only one way that leads to 'Rome', for the path to truth and salvation is narrow and uncompromising.

 

[Windwalker]

I was discussing who will enter heaven, unfortunately naivety of not knowing the Gospel or what it means will not be an excuse.

So, forgiveness doesn't get someone into heaven? Exactly how then do you earn your entry? God can't love and forgive without you passing some test first?

 

[Valjean]

I’m sorry but no one gains entrance into heaven if they haven't accepted the Lord Jesus as Saviour for their sins, accept infant children who aren’t knowledgeable enough about sin.

How do you know this? Evidence, please.

 

[Apostle John]

So, forgiveness doesn't get someone into heaven? Exactly how then do you earn your entry? God can't love and forgive without you passing some test first?

When accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour a born again Christian repents and asks forgiveness for sins, then lives their life in faith according to the Bible. That is the test that earns a Christian entry into heaven.

 

[Apostle John]

How do you know this? Evidence, please.

The Bible is the evidence.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

One can only do that provided that they've accepted Christ as Lord & Saviour - for one who only regards Jesus, at best, as a prophet or good man, will not adhere to his precepts as a standard of living, but merely as an option under convenient circumstances.

But is that not the actual definition of a Christian; that they accept Christ as saviour?

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Windwalker]

When accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour a born again Christian repents and asks forgiveness for sins, then lives their life in faith according to the Bible. That is the test that earns a Christian entry into heaven.

So you have to earn your salvation, is what you are saying? You have to pass a test to merit God's love and acceptance of you? You have to make yourself worthy of God's forgiveness in order for God to forgive you? God doesn't forgive those who are unworthy? You must earn God's love. It is not freely given, is what you are saying?

So when Jesus prayed for those who had just crucified him, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do," God's answer was "no"?

 

[Apostle John]

So you have to earn your salvation, is what you are saying? You have to pass a test to merit God's love and acceptance of you? You have to make yourself worthy of God's forgiveness in order for God to forgive you? God doesn't forgive those who are unworthy? You must earn God's love. It is not freely given, is what you are saying?

So when Jesus prayed for those who had just crucified him, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do," God's answer was "no"?

This is your third response in a row to my posts that you have twisted out of context. I cannot give you a more in-depth answer than I already have regarding entrance to heaven.

 

[Windwalker]

This is your third response in a row to my posts that you have twisted out of context. I cannot give you a more in-depth answer than I already have regarding entrance to heaven.

Am I twisting your words out of context, or do you not understand what you are saying? Your exact words betray a point of view that is contrary to Grace and forgiveness. Your exact words are, "That is the test that earns a Christian entry into heaven." You used the word "earns". That is quite clear in its meaning. It's not free. It's earned.

Plus you called it a test. A test is something you have to pass in order to earn a passing grade. Again, both word choices "test and earn" speaks not of unconditional love and forgiveness, or Grace, which is unearned, but of a conditional act whereby you earn God's acceptance. How is what I am saying out of context from your own words, while I am quoting them exactly?

Do you believe God's love and forgiveness is conditional, or unconditional? What would unconditional love look like to you? Can you explain that to me please?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This is your third response in a row to my posts that you have twisted out of context. I cannot give you a more in-depth answer than I already have regarding entrance to heaven.

The problem is that if you ask different Christians what is a sin, it is different in some cases.
Further, I had this debate with a Christian once. He admitted that to him, you had to accept Jesus Christ, but he wouldn't rule out that you could get into Heaven by following the actual general moral rules, but not those about God as such.
And thus we are back to the actual moral rules and which those are.

 

[Apostle John]

Am I twisting your words out of context, or do you not understand what you are saying? Your exact words betray a point of view that is contrary to Grace and forgiveness. Your exact words are, "That is the test that earns a Christian entry into heaven." You used the word "earns". That is quite clear in its meaning. It's not free. It's earned.

Plus you called it a test. A test is something you have to pass in order to earn a passing grade. Again, both word choices "test and earn" speaks not of unconditional love and forgiveness, or Grace, which is unearned, but of a conditional act whereby you earn God's acceptance. How is what I am saying out of context from your own words, while I am quoting them exactly?

Do you believe God's love and forgiveness is conditional, or unconditional? What would unconditional love look like to you? Can you explain that to me please?

The gift of salvation through Jesus Christ is a free gift. Not everyone keeps faith because of the trials and tribulations of life. God‘s love and forgiveness is unconditional based on this free gift of salvation.

 

[Apostle John]

The problem is that if you ask different Christians what is a sin, it is different in some cases.
Further, I had this debate with a Christian once. He admitted that to him, you had to accept Jesus Christ, but he wouldn't rule out that you could get into Heaven by following the actual general moral rules, but not those about God as such.
And thus we are back to the actual moral rules and which those are.

I keep the two greatest commandments according to the Lord Jesus and respect the other nine of the Ten Commandments because that is where morals come from. You can find out all about sin and how to gain salvation from it in the Bible.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I keep the two greatest commandments according to the Lord Jesus and respect the other nine of the Ten Commandments because that is where morals come from. You can find out all about sin and how to gain salvation from it in the Bible.

Yeah, your understanding is the correct one, I get it. But you see, the certainty you have that yours is the correct one, is matched by those, for whom, they are certain that yours is not the correct one.
As a deist and agnostic I know nothing about that. I have my faith and point out as you have no business in my faith, just as I have no business in yours.

 

[metis]

Not in my opinion - God is not divided in thought nor will - there is only one way that leads to 'Rome', for the path to truth and salvation is narrow and uncompromising.

Then how could you possibly know that the Bible is Divinely inspired but the Gita is not? How do you know that "truth and salvation" supposedly cannot be found in any other religion?

And if "truth and salvation" is only found within Christianity, then what about all those people who lived more than 2000 years b.p.? What about all the others in today's world that couldn't even give us a simple explanation of Jesus and Christianity? Why would God ignore all of them?

 

[Windwalker]

The gift of salvation through Jesus Christ is a free gift. Not everyone keeps faith because of the trials and tribulations of life. God‘s love and forgiveness is unconditional based on this free gift of salvation.

So then we don't need to pass a test to earn entry into heaven? The only thing we would need to do to avail ourselves of the personal benefit of that unconditional love in this life, is to be receptive of it and enjoy the fruits of it, but God's forgiveness is there at all times unconditionally, no tests, no earning, etc, right? So God does forgive everyone then, regardless of anything they do to earn it or not. Correct?

 

[PearlSeeker]

Does Christianity claim to serve the Word? Serve one’s brother, follow Christ and worship God, yes; but serve the Word…?

Yes, serving the Word is Christian. Logos (the Word) is Christ (John 1).

The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ (Mt 25:40)

 

[Apostle John]

So then we don't need to pass a test to earn entry into heaven? The only thing we would need to do to avail ourselves of the personal benefit of that unconditional love in this life, is to be receptive of it and enjoy the fruits of it, but God's forgiveness is there at all times unconditionally, no tests, no earning, etc, right? So God does forgive everyone then, regardless of anything they do to earn it or not. Correct?

That is the doctrine of Grace, it is what is taught in the Bible.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The Bible is the evidence.

Books are evidence that they were written, that somebody had some words that they wanted written down. Nothing in the Christian Bible is known to be true because it appears there. Believers acknowledge that when they point to evidence that supports some passage in scripture. They are telling us that evidence is the standard for justified belief, not scripture.

The gift of salvation through Jesus Christ is a free gift.

That sounds like Pascal's Wager. Free in this context means at no cost or risk, but such a belief is not free. I was a Christian for nearly a decade. I wonder how many hours were spent reading scripture, praying, and going to church? And how many dollars did I give in tithes to support and promote religion? How many hours and dollars have been saved since by leaving religion? I paid a high price by making an important decision by faith. Lesson learned.

You serve the Word by believing in what it promises (abundant life) and following its commands.

Why would I believe "the Word" and its promises? Why would I consider its advice commands to me, and why would I follow them? I'd need a reason beside promises that don't have to be kept.

Neglecting it inevitably results in deterioration and destruction. Death.

My experience has been the opposite. Claim falsified. Death to me is closer to what I left than what I found. Death of the autonomous and self-actualized self. Death of reason and rational ethics.

Are you reacting this way because “lowering self” seems unpleasant and inconvenient to you? If so, that is exactly what I mean. It is a struggle.

We seek to elevate ourselves and others. Christian ethics is fit for subjects and slaves. The message is always to stand down, which is why Constantine made it his state religion. Be meek. Be longsuffering. Submit. Nothing is beneath you. If stricken, present the other cheek. Because if you do, equality and reward await you - after death. We promise. That's what you tell people you are exploiting so that they accept their lot without resistance.

"How can you have order in a state without religion? For, when one man is dying of hunger near another who is ill of surfeit, he cannot resign himself to this difference unless there is an authority which declares 'God wills it thus.' Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon Bonaparte

No matter how at peace you think you are, you’re surrounded by a world full of suffering and death.

That is not a reason to become religious.

Ultimately I’m speaking to how to navigate the journey through the world within.

Thanks, but I've already got that covered. It's done empirically. Empirically, we learn how the world works and how to navigate it to achieve preferred outcomes, how to recognize and benefit from opportunities, and how to avoid pitfalls. We also learn what kind of experiences are desirable and undesirable experiences. Experience generates a spectrum of mild and intense euphorias and dysphorias, and we use that knowledge of how the world works and what makes us happy both first short-term and eventually, if we are smart, long-term, to navigate life. We call this wisdom, and no holy books needed in its acquisition, not to mention that the bad advice given by many that cause us to fail to find that happiness. Spoiler: It is not blessed to be meek (not a synonym of humble, polite, or cooperative). It's a poverty of spirit and a curse. Coming soon: the folly of loving enemies and of turning the other cheek to them.

Christ commands to love your neighbor as yourself.

Commands? Even as a suggestion, they're empty words for most people.

And why would one do that? I'll help my neighbor when he needs it. I'll do much more for myself. I'll help myself when I want something. I'll help the loving people in my life more than the ones living nearby. I'll help them get things they want, whereas with strangers, it's going to be limited to things they need if I have to expend time, money, or labor, because there is a limited supply of all of that.