How we know that there was no Flood of Noah.

[Subduction Zone]

Can you explain to me how you think this product of life began?

Most probably through abiogenesis.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How do know this? You, as an atheist, I assume don't accept the existence of God or a Creator, so how are you so confident in knowing that parts of the Bible are not meant to be read literally?

One does not need to believe the Bible to understand it. And I know this because according to most Christians God does not lie. For Genesis to be true God would have to be a liar. The evidence that tells us Genesis is a book of fables is so strong that only an all powerful God could have planted false evidence, or in other words lied to us.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That I have to explain to each different creationists these differences, just showed how little they pay attention to their science classes...that if they actually study science at all.

Any type of science at all that disproves or is contradictory to creationism causes a creationist mind to immediately go into lockdown mode and without rhyme or reason adamantly defend the nonsense they were fed with a passion like lovestruck teenagers no matter what at all costs.

It's a weird phenomena of the mind on how it clamps down like that, like a hungry dog on a bone that refuses to let go.

I speak from experience like many other people who have as well who where once bible-believing Christians.

 

[james dixon]

Evidence of a great flood is all around us. Whether it is "the" flood is debatable but still the evidence is right before your eyes----

 

[Subduction Zone]

View attachment 22538 View attachment 22539 View attachment 22540
Evidence of a great flood is all around us. Whether it is "the" flood is debatable but still the evidence is right before your eyes----

What makes you think that is evidence of a flood?

 

[nPeace]

That is fine. Meanwhile here is link to an article on scientific evidence:


Scientific evidence - Wikipedia

I hate when people are so full of themselves, they think that everyone else who doesn't believe their stupid theories, are ignorant to science and all that goes with it.

I know all about the scientific method, theory, fact - the whole 9 yards.

Now that that's off my chest.
Here's what you can teach me.

Oh, I've just used my last emoji with you.
I won't use them with you anymore,because you seem intimidated by them. They seem to bruise your ego somehow.

Let's go.

The Bible says that In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.

You make this claim... The water bursting from the earht would have killed Noah and family.

Could you say how you can go about testing your hypothesis?

The Bible says On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. They had with them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock according to their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground according to its kind and every bird according to its kind, everything with wings. Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark. The animals going in were male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the Lord shut him in.

You make this claim...
That this is impossible - couldn't happen - didn't happen, because... of what the long hair man said, and a few other videos.

Could you say how you can go about testing these hypotheses?

 

[nPeace]

View attachment 22538 View attachment 22539 View attachment 22540
Evidence of a great flood is all around us. Whether it is "the" flood is debatable but still the evidence is right before your eyes----

Nice

 

[nPeace]

How do know this? You, as an atheist, I assume don't accept the existence of God or a Creator, so how are you so confident in knowing that parts of the Bible are not meant to be read literally?

Yes, I would like to know this too.

 

[nPeace]

You probably should just start another thread about debunking the Bible since that appears to be your primary goal.

You mean you are asking him to step in a fire ants nest?

 

[Audie]

View attachment 22538 View attachment 22539 View attachment 22540
Evidence of a great flood is all around us. Whether it is "the" flood is debatable but still the evidence is right before your eyes----

Let me guess that you've never taken a geology course.

For a tiny first step, look up "karst", images. You will find
it interesting.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I hate when people are so full of themselves, they think that everyone else who doesn't believe their stupid theories, are ignorant to science and all that goes with it.

I am not "full of myself". and you really need to tone down the rude behavior.

I know all about the scientific method, theory, fact - the whole 9 yards.

I seriously doubt that. You repeatedly demonstrate that you do not understand either evidence nor the scientific method. If I am wrong it would not take you long to show that I am wrong. If I am right you might learn something.

[/B]
Now that that's off my chest.
Here's what you can teach me.

Oh, I've just used my last emoji with you.
I won't use them with you anymore,because you seem intimidated by them. They seem to bruise your ego somehow.

No , you abuse them. You use them in rude responses.

Let's go.

The Bible says that In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.

And you are already into a myth. People have never lived to be 600 years old. But I will try to keep myself under control a bit here too.

[ QUOTE]

You make this claim... The water bursting from the earht would have killed Noah and family.

Could you say how you can go about testing your hypothesis?[/quote]

Yes, we measure how temperature increases as we go down. We observe how seismic waves move through the Earth. Using the info we get people can and have developed a temperature profile for the Earth. From all accounts of flood believers the water came from deep down within the Earth But it is your ridiculous story. You need to explain where all of the water came from needed to cover the Earth.

The Bible says On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. They had with them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock according to their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground according to its kind and every bird according to its kind, everything with wings. Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark. The animals going in were male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the Lord shut him in.

You make this claim...
That this is impossible - couldn't happen - didn't happen, because... of what the long hair man said, and a few other videos.

Could you say how you can go about testing these hypotheses?

Of course. One thing that tells us that this did not happen is the lack of genetic bottlenecks. We can test those. I have already gone over this in the thread. You should have been paying attention. And of course there is the fact that over 5 miles of water would leave a mark. And no only that but of course cook Noah and family too.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let me guess that you've never taken a geology course.

For a tiny first step, look up "karst", images. You will find
it interesting.

Except those are not Karst topography. Must run, more later.

 

[nPeace]

Yes, we measure how temperature increases as we go down. We observe how seismic waves move through the Earth. Using the info we get people can and have developed a temperature profile for the Earth. From all accounts of flood believers the water came from deep down within the Earth But it is your ridiculous story. You need to explain where all of the water came from needed to cover the Earth.


Of course. One thing that tells us that this did not happen is the lack of genetic bottlenecks. We can test those. I have already gone over this in the thread. You should have been paying attention. And of course there is the fact that over 5 miles of water would leave a mark. And no only that but of course cook Noah and family too.

You failed - from the start.

You can't test your hypothesis.
The scientific method cannot include the supernatural,

God is the one who caused the waters to burst out. God is the one who saved them. He brought the animals to Noah. He caused the rains. He closed the door.

How could you know what God did or did not do? You must leave God out of your hypothesis. Therefore you cannot include the Biblical account in your hypotheses.

Are you learning? Do you see how ridiculous it is to ask anyone to prove their God's ability from the scientific method?

I actually forgot the observable part. You can't observe what you can't hypothesize. The scientists threw out your hypothesis before it even hit the table.

Okay then. Now that you learned something...

Would you like to learn more?
I'll share nonetheless. Then I will give you another exercise.

First of all, no Christian need to prove the flood ocurred. There are archaeologists looking into that.

In the same way that you guys for over a century cannot demonstrate how your single-celled organism got started, nor how it evolved to form different organisms, and for over a century there are no fossils that can support that theory - which your founder claimed that they should exceed those living and dead... species.
Yet you can present these myths as fact...

How did you go about observing this again?
Evolution of whale -

...and this incredible story as the narator calls it.

History of Earth -

Why do you not consider them myths?

I think it fair you accept that even though some of the things the Bible says may seem far-fetched to you, you cannot write them off as myth.

Time and time again, new findings verify the truthfullness of the Biblical record.
Unfortunately. I can't seem to find the pages of information I had on all the finding that critics said was not supported outside the Bible, that turned up and shut their mouths.
More of these are being found all the time. Here is one piece of evidence.
Some Very Compelling Evidence the Tower of Babel Was Real

So I have a suggestion.

I have a motor vehicle, and it's stalling. I feel there is something wrong with the battery, but how can I be sure? perhaps I should take it to the dentist, let him look at it for me.
My daughter has a bad cough. I think perhaps it's the flue. How can I be sure? Suppose it is pneumonia. I rake her to the police station.
The toilet stopped working, and I didn't know what to do. Guess who I called? Yeah! That's right - the plumber.

Yeah. I know, I know...
Silly as it sounds. What's my point?

There are various fields of study

Noun 1. field of study - a branch of knowledge; "in what discipline is his doctorate?"; "teachers should be well trained in their subject"; "anthropology is the study of human beings"

Science

noun
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
"the world of science and technology"
synonyms: branch of knowledge, body of knowledge/information, area of study, discipline, field
"the science of criminology"

Science is a field of study

1. uncountable noun
Science is the study of the nature and behaviour of natural things and the knowledge that we obtain about them.
The best discoveries in science are very simple.
...science and technology.
2. countable noun
A science is a particular branch of science such as physics, chemistry, or biology.
Physics is the best example of a science which has developed strong, abstract theories.
...the science of microbiology.
Synonyms: discipline, body of knowledge, area of study, branch of knowledge More Synonyms of science
3. countable noun
A science is the study of some aspect of human behaviour, for example sociology or anthropology.
...the modern science of psychology.
4. See also domestic science, exact science, Master of Science, political science, social science

I suggest putting each study in its proper place.
If you want to study the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world, go study that.
If we want to study the Bible. Using science, and worldly wisdom to do it will get us absolutely nowhere.
Study the Bible - and don't do it with a pompous, egotistic, arrogant, know-it-all attitude...
Do it with humility

Psalm 138:6 American Standard Version (ASV)

For though Jehovah is high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly;
But the haughty he knoweth from afar.

But he gives all the more grace. And so he says, "God opposes the arrogant but gives grace to the humble."
International Standard Version
Humble yourselves in the Lord's presence, and he will exalt you.

Dear me, I forgot the exercise.
See the videos above. How do you prove them by tests and observation? From the bones of three different animals scientists concluded that the whale evolved from a four footed beast. Out of water, back in water. Is that how real science works?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, I would like to know this too.

How many times must this be repeated? The evidence clearly shows that the stories in Genesis did not happen. One is left with two options. Either Genesis was not meant to be read literally or God planted false evidence and lied.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You failed - from the start.

You can't test your hypothesis.
The scientific method cannot include the supernatural,

God is the one who caused the waters to burst out. God is the one who saved them. He brought the animals to Noah. He caused the rains. He closed the door.

How could you know what God did or did not do? You must leave God out of your hypothesis. Therefore you cannot include the Biblical account in your hypotheses.

Are you learning? Do you see how ridiculous it is to ask anyone to prove their God's ability from the scientific method?

I actually forgot the observable part. You can't observe what you can't hypothesize. The scientists threw out your hypothesis before it even hit the table.

Okay then. Now that you learned something...

Would you like to learn more?
I'll share nonetheless. Then I will give you another exercise.

First of all, no Christian need to prove the flood ocurred. There are archaeologists looking into that.

In the same way that you guys for over a century cannot demonstrate how your single-celled organism got started, nor how it evolved to form different organisms, and for over a century there are no fossils that can support that theory - which your founder claimed that they should exceed those living and dead... species.
Yet you can present these myths as fact...

How did you go about observing this again?
Evolution of whale -

...and this incredible story as the narator calls it.

History of Earth -

Why do you not consider them myths?

I think it fair you accept that even though some of the things the Bible says may seem far-fetched to you, you cannot write them off as myth.

Time and time again, new findings verify the truthfullness of the Biblical record.
Unfortunately. I can't seem to find the pages of information I had on all the finding that critics said was not supported outside the Bible, that turned up and shut their mouths.
More of these are being found all the time. Here is one piece of evidence.
Some Very Compelling Evidence the Tower of Babel Was Real

So I have a suggestion.

I have a motor vehicle, and it's stalling. I feel there is something wrong with the battery, but how can I be sure? perhaps I should take it to the dentist, let him look at it for me.
My daughter has a bad cough. I think perhaps it's the flue. How can I be sure? Suppose it is pneumonia. I rake her to the police station.
The toilet stopped working, and I didn't know what to do. Guess who I called? Yeah! That's right - the plumber.

Yeah. I know, I know...
Silly as it sounds. What's my point?

There are various fields of study

Science

Science is a field of study


I suggest putting each study in its proper place.
If you want to study the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world, go study that.
If we want to study the Bible. Using science, and worldly wisdom to do it will get us absolutely nowhere.
Study the Bible - and don't do it with a pompous, egotistic, arrogant, know-it-all attitude...
Do it with humility

Psalm 138:6 American Standard Version (ASV)

Try again. I do believe that I already told you one point at a time. And I explained how my hypothesis could be tested. It appears that you did not understand. And you also demonstrated, counter to your earlier claim, that you do not understand the scientific method either.

 

[Audie]

Except those are not Karst topography. Must run, more later.

Did not mean to suggest they are. Mon. Valley is sandstone, I believe.

Just a suggestion for a start on actual geomorph instead of quick glance
to see what one has decided he will see.

Maybe a .001 chance.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Did not mean to suggest they are. Mon. Valley is sandstone, I believe.

Just a suggestion for a start on actual geomorph instead of quick glance
to see what one has decided he will see.

Maybe a .001 chance.

Karst topography is usually due to low solubility strata eroding through the rock being eaten away by subterranean flowing water. Caves and sinkholes are often the product of Karst topography. Monument valley was formed by more standard forms of erosion, moving water and wind mechanically removing material rather than it dissolving away.

Edit: And I thought that you did mean that they were Karst topography. Sorry about that

 

[InChrist]

One does not need to believe the Bible to understand it. And I know this because according to most Christians God does not lie. For Genesis to be true God would have to be a liar. The evidence that tells us Genesis is a book of fables is so strong that only an all powerful God could have planted false evidence, or in other words lied to us.

Do you know what happens if Genesis is dismissed as a fable? To start with you get rid of...In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (fits right in with a atheism). Besides discounting the flood, there is no literal garden, no tree or forbidden fruit, no Adam and Eve, no Deceiver, no Fall into sin, no covenant with Abraham, no twelve tribes of Israel. I suppose you must also conclude that all the Gospels and epistles are fables, too, because if Genesis is a myth there is no sin, so why did Jesus have to come as the Savior? I'm sure that science has never been able to show evidence of the resurrection, either. Basically, it sounds like you are saying that the entire Bible is a lie and you want Christians to agree with you based on the naturalistic evidence that is available.

I don't think that you would be so bold as to say that you have all the evidence or all knowledge concerning the history of the earth or the beginning of life, or even whether or not there is a supernatural element to this universe. No doubt there is a tremendous amount of yet unknown information and I believe we humans have likely only scratched the surface. I am at least open to possibility that Genesis is accurate and God does not lie because ALL the evidence has yet to be discovered or understood. If there is a Being who created everything and has revealed some information to humanity about it, I just have to conclude that this Creator knows more than I do on the subject.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you know what happens if Genesis is dismissed as a fable? To start with you get rid of...In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (fits right in with a atheism). Besides discounting the flood, there is no literal garden, no tree or forbidden fruit, no Adam and Eve, no Deceiver, no Fall into sin, no covenant with Abraham, no twelve tribes of Israel. I suppose you must also conclude that all the Gospels and epistles are fables, too, because if Genesis is a myth there is no sin, so why did Jesus have to come as the Savior? I'm sure that science has never been able to show evidence of the resurrection, either. Basically, it sounds like you are saying that the entire Bible is a lie and you want Christians to agree with you based on the naturalistic evidence that is available.

I would not go so far as to say a lie. Are Aesop's Tables lies? And the concept of original sin is a rather evil one. If you can reason rationally you can see that it paints God as being evil. You are the one making an all or nothing claim. I know that many Christians can ignore the bad morals, had science, and evil God of the Old Testament and still remain Christians.

I don't think that you would be so bold as to say that you have all the evidence or all knowledge concerning the history of the earth or the beginning of life, or even whether or not there is a supernatural element to this universe. No doubt there is a tremendous amount of yet unknown information and I believe we humans have likely only scratched the surface. I am at least open to possibility that Genesis is accurate and God does not lie because ALL the evidence has yet to be discovered or understood. If there is a Being who created everything and has revealed some information to humanity about it, I just have to conclude that this Creator knows more than I do on the subject.

Why do you think that all of the evidence is necessary? When a murderer is convicted a video of him from birth to the time of the crime is not needed.

My point was that all of the evidence we have supports the science side and no reliable evidence supports the Bible story.

 

[YoursTrue]

OK, I've got a little time tonight. To get started I will start by saying my belief is as stated in the Bible, it would take a while to state all I think, so I will start with that.

So what part do you want to discuss?

I would just like to say upon reflecting on this subject (the Flood) that the erosion of the icebergs has been going faster than expected, and threatens many coastlines.