How were the days in the Genesis account to be understood?

[Youtellme]

Do you think they were meant to be understood as 24 hr days or rather an expression or figure of speech, one that signifies an indefinite period of time?

 

[sandandfoam]

Do you think they were meant to be understood as 24 hr days or rather an expression or figure of speech, one that signifies an indefinite period of time?

I think Genesis is a living myth that can usefully be applied to the world one is constantly in the process of creating for oneself.
Not literalism. Ever .

 

[Levite]

Do you think they were meant to be understood as 24 hr days or rather an expression or figure of speech, one that signifies an indefinite period of time?

I think it is deeply counterproductive to take Genesis too literally. There is an ancient maxim of textual interpretation in Judaism: dibrah Torah ki'l'shon b'nai adam meaning "The Torah speaks in the ways people use language." In other words, scripture uses metaphor, narrative compression, idioms, symbolism, allegory, allusion, imagery, hyperbole, simile...all the tools and devices we would expect from literature.

There is another old teaching, given by Rambam (Rabbi Moses Maimonides, 12th century), which I will paraphrase into English: If you're studying Torah, and something in Torah appears to contradict what science and common sense tell you is the way the world works, then you are misunderstanding Torah.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Do you think they were meant to be understood as 24 hr days or rather an expression or figure of speech, one that signifies an indefinite period of time?

My way of looking at it is that the Biblical world and the natural world are not reconcilable.

 

[james2ko]

Do you think they were meant to be understood as 24 hr days or rather an expression or figure of speech, one that signifies an indefinite period of time?

The contextual evidence clearly indicates they were literal 24hr periods.

 

[Bowman]

Do you think they were meant to be understood as 24 hr days or rather an expression or figure of speech, one that signifies an indefinite period of time?

Textually, the 'days' can only be rendered as epochs of time.

There was no other ancient Hebrew word to demark a very long period of time.

Each 'day' ends with the phrase....and there was evening....and there was morning...of which, would only be 12hrs...not the 24 hrs young earthers want to pour into the text.

Further evidence that these are not 24hr periods of time is represented by the fact that 'day' seven was never closed-out like the previous six....hence, we are still in the seventh 'day'.

This makes for a pretty long 24 hr day....

 

[james2ko]

Textually, the 'days' can only be rendered as epochs of time. There was no other ancient Hebrew word to demark a very long period of time.

A casual reading of the text may render this statement true. But a closer look "under the hood" will reveal the "Pearl of Great Price" (Mat 13:46) A careful reading of Genesis 1:3-5, 14-19 with special attention on the words evening and morning, night and day, darkness and light, which have continued since creation (Gen 8:22), will make it plain:

Each 'day' ends with the phrase....and there was evening....and there was morning..of which, would only be 12hrs...not the 24 hrs young earthers want to pour into the text.

Each day, for the exception of the seventh (which is explained below), actually ends with the words "and the evening and the morning were the first thru sixth day!, The word "day" in the Bible is often used to represent an indefinite period of time. In fact the Hebrew word, Yom, translated day is occasionally translated "time". But in every case where the numerals first, second, third, etc. occur, the word day is obviously and clearly referring to a natural 24 hr day as we know it.

Scripture speaks of a day of vengeance, the day of adversity, the day of temptation, meaning a time or season. Yet when it speaks of the fourteenth day of the month (Lev 23), the seven days of Unleavened Bread or the fifty days until Pentecost, the word "day" can only mean a 24 hr period. The word "day", in the context of the creation account, refers to the daylight part of the 24 hr period. This part of the "day" is by Christ's own definition 12 hours (John 11:9)

Note that the sun was appointed "to divide the light from the darkness"---to divide day from night (Gen 1:18). Does sundown divide anything but literal days?

Further evidence that these are not 24hr periods of time is represented by the fact that 'day' seven was never closed-out like the previous six....hence, we are still in the seventh 'day'. This makes for a pretty long 24 hr day....

Gen 2:2. He [God] rested on the seventh day from all is work." Not "is resting" from all His work. Exodus 20:11: "The Lord....rested the seventh day." Again Gen 2:3. "In it [the seventh day] He had rested." He blessed the sabbath AFTER He had rested on it. Heb 4:4. "God did rest the seventh day from all His works." Not "is resting"!

Furthermore, If the seventh day has not ended, God should still be resting. Yet scripture indicates He is busy at work:

Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." See also Jer 50:25; Exo 32:16; Jos 24:31.​

The bible as well as scientific evidence proves the earth is much older than 6,000 years old. Yet I have found no place in Scripture where God implies that He took anything but a natural week of ordinary days to bring life and order to the earth.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Do you think they were meant to be understood as 24 hr days or rather an expression or figure of speech, one that signifies an indefinite period of time?

Signified an indefinite period of time, a different timescale.

2 Peter 3:8 (New International Version)


But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

 

[james2ko]

Signified an indefinite period of time, a different timescale.

2 Peter 3:8 (New International Version)
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Symbolically, a day may represent a year (Eze 4:6) or a thousand years, as you point out, but symbolic interpretations may not be applied in all cases. There is no record found of "ages" or indefinite periods of time in the "days" of creation in the ancient history of the Hebrews or of early Christians. But in addition to the scriptural evidence in post #7, there is also scientific evidence the creation days were literal 24 hour periods of time and not 1,000 years.

Notice how the creation week followed the laws of science. At dawn the first day, light penetrated the dense clouds. As it grew warmer the clouds rose the second day and an expanse or heaven was formed, the one in which the birds fly. Thus the waters on the earth were separated from the water-laden clouds above. The ocean receded, dry land appeared and grass and herbs were planted the third day. A mist watered them and as the fourth day progressed the sun became visible through the thinning clouds. Toward the evening the moon and stars appeared. Birds and sea life were created the fifth day, the land animals with Adam and Eve the sixth, and a day of rest and worship for the man the seventh.

Consider the plants which were created on the third day. The sun did not appear until the next day. If these "days" were each 1000 years long then these plants would have had to survive 1000 years without sunshine! Or consider this, plants were made the third day, insects on the sixth. How did certain specialized plants continue to exist 3,000 years without their insect partners to pollinate them?

 

[Bowman]

A casual reading of the text may render this statement true. But a closer look "under the hood" will reveal the "Pearl of Great Price" (Mat 13:46) A careful reading of Genesis 1:3-5, 14-19 with special attention on the words evening and morning, night and day, darkness and light, which have continued since creation (Gen 8:22), will make it plain:



Each day, for the exception of the seventh (which is explained below), actually ends with the words "and the evening and the morning were the first thru sixth day!, The word "day" in the Bible is often used to represent an indefinite period of time.

‘Time’ is actually the best rendering of the term yom in the Genesis creation account.

In fact the Hebrew word, Yom, translated day is occasionally translated "time". But in every case where the numerals first, second, third, etc. occur, the word day is obviously and clearly referring to a natural 24 hr day as we know it.

Scripture speaks of a day of vengeance, the day of adversity, the day of temptation, meaning a time or season. Yet when it speaks of the fourteenth day of the month (Lev 23), the seven days of Unleavened Bread or the fifty days until Pentecost, the word "day" can only mean a 24 hr period. The word "day", in the context of the creation account, refers to the daylight part of the 24 hr period. This part of the "day" is by Christ's own definition 12 hours (John 11:9)

There are exceptions to this in scripture.

Further, even Genesis 2.4 uses ‘yom’ to denote the entire 6-day creation period…clearly showing that it does not refer to a literal 24 hr period.

Note that the sun was appointed "to divide the light from the darkness"---to divide day from night (Gen 1:18). Does sundown divide anything but literal days?

That the sun became visible from the vantage point of the surface of the earth does not indicate a literal day. It merely gives a description that there was a transformation in the earth’s atmosphere during this time period.


“Day” Four: Genesis 1.14 – 1:19


And said God, Let be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to divide between the day and the night and let them be for signs, and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens, to give light on the earth; and it was so. And brought forth God, two the luminaries great; the luminary great for the rule of the day, and the luminary small for the rule of the night, and the stars. And appointed them God in the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate between the light and the darkness; and saw God that good (it was). And was the mixing and was the breaking forth time the fourth. (Gen 1.14-19)

Gen 2:2. He [God] rested on the seventh day from all is work." Not "is resting" from all His work. Exodus 20:11: "The Lord....rested the seventh day." Again Gen 2:3. "In it [the seventh day] He had rested." He blessed the sabbath AFTER He had rested on it. Heb 4:4. "God did rest the seventh day from all His works." Not "is resting"!

Furthermore, If the seventh day has not ended, God should still be resting. Yet scripture indicates He is busy at work:

Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." See also Jer 50:25; Exo 32:16; Jos 24:31.
​

The term translated as ‘rested’ means to cease….as in cease to create anything new.



H7673
שׁבת
shâbath
BDB Definition:
1) to cease, desist, rest
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to cease
1a2) to rest, desist (from labour)
1b) (Niphal) to cease
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to cause to cease, put an end to
1c2) to exterminate, destroy
1c3) to cause to desist from
1c4) to remove
1c5) to cause to fail
2) (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2323, 2323c

Even the scientific record shows that no new species have arisen since homo sapiens sapiens have been on this planet.

Thus, clearly, God has ceased to create after the creation of mankind.

The bible as well as scientific evidence proves the earth is much older than 6,000 years old.

Agreed.

There is no issue with a cira 14 billion year old Universe and a circa 4.5 billion year old earth.

Yet I have found no place in Scripture where God implies that He took anything but a natural week of ordinary days to bring life and order to the earth.

Then you haven’t studied the Bible very closely…

 

[james2ko]

Time’ is actually the best rendering of the term yom in the Genesis creation account.

Based on personal opinion, perhaps, but certainly not scriptural evidence.

There are exceptions to this in scripture. Further, even Genesis 2.4 uses ‘yom’ to denote the entire 6-day creation period…clearly showing that it does not refer to a literal 24 hr period.

You may want to re-read my post. I did mention the word Yom sometimes can refer to a longer period of time than 24 hrs. Gen 2:4 is one of those examples. It refers, "collectively", to the first 6 days or 144 hrs of creation. As I stated in post 7, throughout scripture, every time a number follows the word day, it indicates a literal 24 hr period. Such is the case for the creation account.

That the sun became visible from the vantage point of the surface of the earth does not indicate a literal day. It merely gives a description that there was a transformation in the earth’s atmosphere during this time period.

Unfortunately, you are reading something into the text which is not present and clearly contrary to the biblical evidence presented in post #7.

The term translated as ‘rested’ means to cease….as in cease to create anything new.Thus, clearly, God has ceased to create after the creation of mankind. Even the scientific record shows that no new species have arisen since homo sapiens sapiens have been on this planet. Thus, clearly, God has ceased to create after the creation of mankind.

Correct. He ceased to create anything new because He rested from the creative process which, based on the scriptural evidence presented in post #7, indicates the beginning and end of the seventh day. Your claim was "day seven was never closed-out like the previous six.....hence, we are still in the seventh "day".

My rebuttal included biblical evidence that if the seventh day was never closed out, God would still be resting. And if He's still resting, then He cannot be working as evidenced by John 5:17 and other scriptures. But it was closed out indicated by God's rest period where He ceased from His creative works and your rebuttal just confirmed it.

 

[Bowman]

Based on personal opinion, perhaps, but certainly not scriptural evidence.

Not only based upon scriptural evidence, but by the very definition of the term itself…

H3117
יום
yôm
BDB Definition:
1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) as a division of time
1b2a) a working day, a day’s journey
1c) days, lifetime (plural)
1d) time, period (general)
1e) year
1f) temporal references
1f1) today
1f2) yesterday
1f3) tomorrow
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from an unused root meaning to be hot
Same Word by TWOT Number: 852

You may want to re-read my post. I did mention the word Yom sometimes can refer to a longer period of time than 24 hrs. Gen 2:4 is one of those examples. It refers, "collectively", to the first 6 days or 144 hrs of creation.

Nope.

The Hebrew day begins and ends in the evening. Thus, if it were 24hr periods of time, then the text would have stated…and there was evening….and there was evening.

However, the text does not state this at all…in fact, the expression…and there was evening, and there was morning, only appears in Genesis 1.

As I stated in post 7, throughout scripture, every time a number follows the word day, it indicates a literal 24 hr period. Such is the case for the creation account.

Nope.

Hos 6.2 After two daysH4480 H3117 will he reviveH2421 us: in the thirdH7992 dayH3117 he will raise us up,H6965 and we shall liveH2421 in his sight.H6440

Unfortunately, you are reading something into the text which is not present and clearly contrary to the biblical evidence presented in post #7.

Where, exactly…?

Correct. He ceased to create anything new because He rested from the creative process which, based on the scriptural evidence presented in post #7, indicates the beginning and end of the seventh day. Your claim was "day seven was never closed-out like the previous six.....hence, we are still in the seventh "day".

My rebuttal included biblical evidence that if the seventh day was never closed out, God would still be resting. And if He's still resting, then He cannot be working as evidenced by John 5:17 and other scriptures. But it was closed out indicated by God's rest period where He ceased from His creative works and your rebuttal just confirmed it.

Nope.

You seem to be confusing the ceasing of creating with ceasing of work.

Gen 2.3 And GodH430 blessedH1288 (H853) the seventhH7637 day,H3117 and sanctifiedH6942 it: becauseH3588 that in it he had restedH7673 from allH4480 H3605 his workH4399 whichH834 GodH430 createdH1254 and made.H6213

 

[james2ko]

Not only based upon scriptural evidence, but by the very definition of the term itself…

huhhh??? There must be some mis-understanding. You continue to confirm my rebuttal...you ok?

Nope.The Hebrew day begins and ends in the evening. Thus, if it were 24hr periods of time, then the text would have stated…and there was evening and there was evening.

Jesus Christ, the Creator of the Universe and the very One who inspired the author of Genesis, makes it very clear about how many hours are in the evening and morning or day and night in the creation account. In John 11:9-10 He states, Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. 10 But if one walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him."

Evening=Night (12 hours)
Morning=Day (12 hours)= 24 hrs

However, the text does not state this at all…in fact, the expression…and there was evening, and there was morning, only appears in Genesis 1.

"Evening and morning, or night and day, is the Hebrew phrase used for a natural day. (Clarkes Commentary Mat 12:40) It is simply a figure of speech for a full 24 hr day.

Here's Thayer's Lexicon take on the word "Yome": As I stated previously, when the word day is followed by a number, it is always referring to a 24 hr period.

1) day, time, year
a) day (as opposed to night)
b) day (24 hour period)
1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
2) as a division of time
a) a working day, a day's journey
c) days, lifetime (pl.)
d) time, period (general)
e) year
f) temporal references
1) today
2) yesterday
3) tomorrow

Nope.

Hos 6.2 After two daysH4480 H3117 will he reviveH2421 us: in the thirdH7992 dayH3117 he will raise us up,H6965 and we shall liveH2421 in his sight.H6440

In this verse, the prophet Hosea uses a Hebrew idiom to convey a prophecy of the Messiah's resurrection. The prophet expressly mentions "two days," after which life should be given, and a "third day, on" which the resurrection should take place. The two days indicates the length of time in which the Body of Christ lay in the tomb, and the third day, on which He rose again, as "the Resurrection and the life" which was a literal 72 hr period.

Nope.

You seem to be confusing the ceasing of creating with ceasing of work.

During the first six days of Genesis, God ceasing to work on the seventh day is akin with Him ceasing to create.

Gen 2:2-3 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...and unlike the six creative days the seventh day has no closing time.
The seventh day was still on going in Paul's day.-Hebrews 4vs4-10

There is also nothing in Genesis to show if each of the six creative days were of the same length of time. Just as was stated the six are summed up as a 'day' at Gen 2v4.

 

[james2ko]

...and unlike the six creative days the seventh day has no closing time.
The seventh day was still on going in Paul's day.-Hebrews 4vs4-10

There is also nothing in Genesis to show if each of the six creative days were of the same length of time. Just as was stated the six are summed up as a 'day' at Gen 2v4.

This has all been refuted. Read the thread from the beginning.

 

[Bowman]

Jesus Christ, the Creator of the Universe and the very One who inspired the author of Genesis, makes it very clear about how many hours are in the evening and morning or day and night in the creation account. In John 11:9-10 He states, Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. 10 But if one walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him."

Evening=Night (12 hours)
Morning=Day (12 hours)= 24 hrs

Complete your train of thought….and there was evening and there was morning….i.e. twelve hours.

Evening to morning cannot be more than twelve hours, brother.

Not 24hrs.

"Evening and morning, or night and day, is the Hebrew phrase used for a natural day. (Clarkes Commentary Mat 12:40) It is simply a figure of speech for a full 24 hr day.

Nope.

It cannot possibly be a 24hr day even in the Hebrew.

Further, if you knew anything at all about cosmology, the earth was rotating about its axis at a much higher rate in its early formation than it is today.

Here's Thayer's Lexicon take on the word "Yome": As I stated previously, when the word day is followed by a number, it is always referring to a 24 hr period.

1) day, time, year
a) day (as opposed to night)
b) day (24 hour period)
1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
2) as a division of time
a) a working day, a day's journey
c) days, lifetime (pl.)
d) time, period (general)
e) year
f) temporal references
1) today
2) yesterday
3) tomorrow

The very first definition states, time, brother….

In this verse, the prophet Hosea uses a Hebrew idiom to convey a prophecy of the Messiah's resurrection. The prophet expressly mentions "two days," after which life should be given, and a "third day, on" which the resurrection should take place. The two days indicates the length of time in which the Body of Christ lay in the tomb, and the third day, on which He rose again, as "the Resurrection and the life" which was a literal 72 hr period.

Nope.
This is a time which has yet to transpire….again a pretty long 24 hr period would you not say?

During the first six days of Genesis, God ceasing to work on the seventh day is akin with Him ceasing to create.

Gen 2:2-3 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

No mention of the seventh ‘day’ being closed-out.

We are still in the seventh ‘day.

Again…hardly a 24 hr period of time.

 

[Bowman]

...and unlike the six creative days the seventh day has no closing time.
The seventh day was still on going in Paul's day.-Hebrews 4vs4-10

There is also nothing in Genesis to show if each of the six creative days were of the same length of time. Just as was stated the six are summed up as a 'day' at Gen 2v4.

Good example...!

 

[james2ko]

Complete your train of thought….and there was evening and there was morning….i.e. twelve hours.

Evening to morning cannot be more than twelve hours, brother.

Not 24hrs.

Of course it can. Do you even read my posts? It might help you know.

Nope.

It cannot possibly be a 24hr day even in the Hebrew.

Further, if you knew anything at all about cosmology, the earth was rotating about its axis at a much higher rate in its early formation than it is today.

If you knew anything about correct biblical interpretation you would not need to know about cosmology to figure out the creation days were 24 hr literal periods.

The very first definition states, time, brother….

As I stated and proven twice, throughout scripture when followed by a number, it always refers to a 24 hr period of time.

Nope.[/FONT]
This is a time which has yet to transpire….again a pretty long 24 hr period would you not say?No mention of the seventh ‘day’ being closed-out.

The biblical and scientific evidence presented clearly indicates the creation days were literal 24 hr periods. The seventh day has ended. Scriptures have been presented to overwhelmingly refute all of your claims which you choose to ignore. It's ok. My job is not to convert but to witness. One day your mind will be opened to the truth. Until then...

 

[Bowman]

Of course it can. Do you even read my posts? It might help you know.

The passing of a 24hr period of time in the OT was expressed with 'evening to evening'...or occasionally 'morning to morning'.

The phrase in Genesis 1 is completely different and clearly indicates something other than a 24hr passage of time.

If you knew anything about correct biblical interpretation you would not need to know about cosmology to figure out the creation days were 24 hr literal periods.

Cosmology fits with the Biblical description in all locations - thus, when cosmology tells us that the earth was spinning about its axis at a much higher rate in the past, and that the earth is slowing down today, then you really have nothing to stand on...

The biblical and scientific evidence presented clearly indicates the creation days were literal 24 hr periods.

You have not provided any scientific evidence for a 24hr creation day.

The seventh day has ended.

Nope.

Scriptures have been presented to overwhelmingly refute all of your claims which you choose to ignore. It's ok. My job is not to convert but to witness. One day your mind will be opened to the truth. Until then...

Your knowledge of scripture and science is weak at best...

 

[tumbleweed41]

....scientific evidence presented clearly indicates the creation days were literal 24 hr periods.

I agree that the original author(s) of Genesis 1 meant 24 hour days, but I am not sure what you mean by scientific evidence.