How were the days in the Genesis account to be understood?

[Bowman]

"Ereb" and "boqer" [evening and morning] are translated as plurals if the context makes it clear that this is necessary. In the case of Dan 8:14, ereb and boqer are modified by the number "2,300" - an obvious indication that the plural should be used. However, there is no such modication in Gen 1, or any other contextual data to suggest that these words should be translated as plurals. In fact, the context demands a singular translation, since the verb "wayehi" is singular so "ereb" and "boqer" must also be singular. (A Summary of Evidence for Literal 24-hr Creation Days in Genesis 1.by Andrew S. Kulikovsky B.App.Sc(Hons) MA (candidate)
​

In other words in Genesis 1, Ereb and boqer are referring to a single yom or day! I guess today is my "lucky Yom"

Not a 24hr day.

Even by your reference.

I accommodated your request now please answer my question:

Please provide an explanation why the same words for evening and morning with a number (first, second, etc) which appear in Genesis 1:5, also appear as evening and morning with the number 2300 in Dan 8:14? And what is its interpretation?

Let's start with this...

Please show us the term 'first', and define it, brother...

Once again you dodged another question this time with a nonsensical diversion. Here it is again:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say, for the sake of argument, that each day was a million years in duration. You agreed back in post#22 the days of creation followed the laws of science. You agreed plant life was created on the third day and insects on the sixth. Could you please explain to us how certain plants continued to exist 3 million years without their insect partners to pollinate them?

All you have to do is select the Hebrew word that you want to use as evidence of plants that require cross-pollination.

How hard can this be for you brother...?

 

[james2ko]

Not a 24hr day.Even by your reference.

Ereb and boqer are singular in Genesis 1 therefore indicating a single 24 hr day as evidenced by the context it is used in throughout the bible.

]Let's start with this... Please show us the term first, and define it, brother.

I asked the question. The burden of proof to define the verses is on you. Brother...Look up the definition of first and you tell me what it means.

All you have to do is select the Hebrew word that you want to use as evidence of plants that require cross-pollination.

Pollination is a scientifically proven fact. Just because there is no Hebrew word in the bible for it does not diminsh its existence. You are making it quite obvious to everyone that you are avoiding my questions.

How hard can this be for you brother...?

There you go ducking, weaving, and marginalizing. Classic behavior of someone with nothing to offer. Are you going to answer the question or are you going to continue your silly diversion tactics? Here it is one more time:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say, for the sake of argument, that each day was a million years in duration. You agreed back in post#22 the days of creation followed the laws of science. You agreed plant life was created on the third day and insects on the sixth. Could you please explain to us how certain plants continued to exist 3 million years without their insect partners to pollinate them?

If you do not answer them this time, I'll assume you just simply don't have one and your cherished fallacy of age long creation days will be confirmed.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Not generations of people, but the generations that took to complete creation.

Obviously the 24hr paradigm does not fit this verse, either.

This verse (gen. 2:4) came right after the six days were completed, and the seventh day started.

So, is the word generations, is a reference to the 6 days of creation?

If yes, then, it seems to also include the creation of human, as well as all other plants, animals, etc.

if so, how could six days be called generations?

wouldn't generations implies years and years?

 

[james2ko]

If the general understanding is that, first God created the earth, then after some days, He created human , then why would Gen. 2:4 says that generations of people were created, in the same day that God made the earth and heavens?


2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens"

Genesis 2:4 to 2:25 is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth day. The Hebrew word for "generation" can also be defined as history or account. There is no contextual or exegetical indication Gen 2:4 is referring to a generation of people.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Genesis 2:4 to 2:25 is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth day. The Hebrew word for "generation" can also be defined as history or account. There is no contextual or exegetical indication Gen 2:4 is referring to a generation of people.

Ok, maybe not.

But even then, part of the sixth day, is the creation of man. isn't it?


Now having said that, the fact that those generations were created at the same time or day that the earth and heavens were made, i think it would imply that those generations had existed for as long as the earth and heaven existed, isn't it?

and scientifically, the earth existed billions of years or more.
Which Bible also confirms that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." 1:2

 

[Bowman]

Ereb and boqer are singular in Genesis 1 therefore indicating a single 24 hr day as evidenced by the context it is used in throughout the bible.

Nope.

A single yom.

I asked the question. The burden of proof to define the verses is on you. Brother...Look up the definition of first and you tell me what it means.

The term you are looking for is ‘echad’….which means one, brother.

Not first.

Pollination is a scientifically proven fact. Just because there is no Hebrew word in the bible for it does not diminsh its existence. You are making it quite obvious to everyone that you are avoiding my questions.

You cannot even bring forth the very Hebrew term you are arguing.

You have nothing.

There you go ducking, weaving, and marginalizing. Classic behavior of someone with nothing to offer. Are you going to answer the question or are you going to continue your silly diversion tactics? Here it is one more time:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say, for the sake of argument, that each day was a million years in duration. You agreed back in post#22 the days of creation followed the laws of science. You agreed plant life was created on the third day and insects on the sixth. Could you please explain to us how certain plants continued to exist 3 million years without their insect partners to pollinate them?

Here are your Hebrew choices for plants…

• Deshe
• Eseb
• Ets

Now…according to you one (or more) of these are so ‘specialized’ as to require cross-pollinization via insects in order to survive.

All you need to do is tell us which one(s) of these fit your ‘argument’ and why….

Simple.

 

[Bowman]

This verse (gen. 2:4) came right after the six days were completed, and the seventh day started.

So, is the word generations, is a reference to the 6 days of creation?

If yes, then, it seems to also include the creation of human, as well as all other plants, animals, etc.

if so, how could six days be called generations?

wouldn't generations implies years and years?

Indeed...generations implies a great length of time transpired during each creation 'Day'.

Thus, this is merely more insurmountable evidence against a 24hr creation 'Day.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Indeed...generations implies a great length of time transpired during each creation 'Day'.

Thus, this is merely more insurmountable evidence against a 24hr creation 'Day.

If so, then, for example between, the 5th day, and the sixth day, could be thousands, or millions of years.
and between, the sixth day, and the seventh day also thousands or millions of years.

is it generally understood that based on Bible, human was created on the sixth day?

 

[Bowman]

If so, then, for example between, the 5th day, and the sixth day, could be thousands, or millions of years.
and between, the sixth day, and the seventh day also thousands or millions of years.

Since the days are sequential, I would say that all time is actually contained within the 'day' itself.

The actual duration of each 'day' would be available to us through the record of nature.

is it generally understood that based on Bible, human was created on the sixth day

Agreed.

God's last creative event before ceasing to create.

This is the seventh Day that we are in now...

God will create once again with the New Jerusalem, at the end of the time.

 

[Pegg]

It has to be metaphoric and parables. It's not literal at all, otherwise it wouldn't make sense.
Consider, on the third day, it says, earth yielded fruits. But the grass and trees require light of the sun to grow. How is it possible that fruit was yielded before the Sun was created on the fourth day? Also, the grass and fruit does not grow in only one day, it takes time!
On the third Day:
"...grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit..." 1:13

on the fourth Day:

“…And God made two great lights..” 1:16

the sun was not created on the 4th day, it already existed on the 1st day and the proof is in the hebrew words used.

The Hebrew word in the 1st day is ’ohr - it means light in general. On day 4 word changes to ma‧’ohr′, which means a light 'source'
So on the first day, light was coming into the atmosphere, but the source of that light could not be seen until the 4th day when the skies cleared enough for the sun and moon (the source of light) to be visible.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I fail to see how any one can seriously debate the "Creation" in Genesis as if it were supported by scientific fact, or was any way a concept with a base in reality.

If faith has to depend on fables and primitive suppositions as if they were true, It would result in a Faith with no substance, and no reality.

No wonder so many have turned away from the Church.

Churches should face the facts, and Teach the messages to be derived from these Fables, not teach them as if they had some reality.

 

[james2ko]

You cannot even bring forth the very Hebrew term you are arguing.You have nothing.]Here are your Hebrew choices for plants…Deshe..Eseb..Ets All you need to do is tell us which one(s) of these fit your ‘argument’ and why….[/SIZE][/FONT]

Any basic encyclopedia will tell us that two groups of insects which include bees, wasps, butterflies and moths could not have existed without the honey or nectar bearing plants, nor could these plants have existed without the insects. Without insects to pollinize them they could not bear seed.

Not all plants require insects to pollinate them. The types of specialized plants which do are those with brightly colored flowers, having an odor to attract insects and containing nectar to provide them with food. They include such common plants as the maple tree, strawberry, blackberry, honeysuckle, and poppy.

The Bible states these plants were made on the third day and the insects were not made until three "days" later. Which you claim could have been millions of years! The fact these original plants must have survived millions of years before they could produce seed is an utter impossibility!!!

So once again, you failed to answer the question:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say, for the sake of argument, that each day was a million years in duration. You agreed back in post#22 the days of creation followed the laws of science. You agreed plant life was created on the third day and insects on the sixth. Could you please explain to us how certain plants continued to exist 3 million years without their insect partners to pollinate them? Could you please explain to us how certain specialized plants like nectar bearing plants as well as the maple tree, strawberry, blackberry, honeysuckle, and poppy, continued to exist 3 million years without their insect partners to pollinate them?
​

Nope.A single yom.

I gave you the grammatical rule---you didn't even know existed---to properly determine when yom is to be translated as one 24 hr day or many 24 hr days and you dismiss it in order to hold on to your fantasy. That's actually quite sad..I'm begnning to feel sorry for you.

The term you are looking for is ‘echad’….which means one, brother.Not first.

Is not "one" a number as my question purports???

Please provide an explanation why the same words for evening and morning with a number (first, second, etc) which appear in Genesis 1:5, also appear as evening and morning with the number 2300 in Dan 8:14? And what is its interpretation?​

That is not answering the question I asked about Dan 8:14. Face it Bowman, the long creation is nothing but an elaborate fallacy which you just confirmed by ducking and bobbing--like a good boxer--the two questions that have been asked four times. The truth is undeniable and complete. All of the scientific and biblical evidence points toward a 24 hr per day creation week. If you choose to disregard or ignore it that is certainly your perogative..My witness to you is done. I will no longer play into your juvenile diversion tactics.The truth has been told.

 

[Bowman]

the sun was not created on the 4th day, it already existed on the 1st day and the proof is in the hebrew words used.

The Hebrew word in the 1st day is ’ohr - it means light in general. On day 4 word changes to ma‧’ohr′, which means a light 'source'
So on the first day, light was coming into the atmosphere, but the source of that light could not be seen until the 4th day when the skies cleared enough for the sun and moon (the source of light) to be visible.

Another thing we can agree upon.

 

[Bowman]

I fail to see how any one can seriously debate the "Creation" in Genesis as if it were supported by scientific fact, or was any way a concept with a base in reality.

If faith has to depend on fables and primitive suppositions as if they were true, It would result in a Faith with no substance, and no reality.

No wonder so many have turned away from the Church.

Churches should face the facts, and Teach the messages to be derived from these Fables, not teach them as if they had some reality.

The scientific method came from Genesis, brother.

 

[Bowman]

Any basic encyclopedia will tell us that two groups of insects which include bees, wasps, butterflies and moths could not have existed without the honey or nectar bearing plants, nor could these plants have existed without the insects. Without insects to pollinize them they could not bear seed.

Not all plants require insects to pollinate them. The types of specialized plants which do are those with brightly colored flowers, having an odor to attract insects and containing nectar to provide them with food. They include such common plants as the maple tree, strawberry, blackberry, honeysuckle, and poppy.

The Bible states these plants were made on the third day and the insects were not made until three "days" later. Which you claim could have been millions of years! The fact these original plants must have survived millions of years before they could produce seed is an utter impossibility!!!

So once again, you failed to answer the question:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say, for the sake of argument, that each day was a million years in duration. You agreed back in post#22 the days of creation followed the laws of science. You agreed plant life was created on the third day and insects on the sixth. Could you please explain to us how certain plants continued to exist 3 million years without their insect partners to pollinate them? Could you please explain to us how certain specialized plants like nectar bearing plants as well as the maple tree, strawberry, blackberry, honeysuckle, and poppy, continued to exist 3 million years without their insect partners to pollinate them?

​

You still cannot provide the Hebrew word that you are arguing over, brother.

Keep trying...

I gave you the grammatical rule---you didn't even know existed---to properly determine when yom is to be translated as one 24 hr day or many 24 hr days and you dismiss it in order to hold on to your fantasy. That's actually quite sad..I'm begnning to feel sorry for you.

No Hebrew rule of grammar was provided by you.

Is not "one" a number as my question purports???

Please provide an explanation why the same words for evening and morning with a number (first, second, etc) which appear in Genesis 1:5, also appear as evening and morning with the number 2300 in Dan 8:14? And what is its interpretation?
​

That is not answering the question I asked about Dan 8:14. Face it Bowman, the long creation is nothing but an elaborate fallacy which you just confirmed by ducking and bobbing--like a good boxer--the two questions that have been asked four times. The truth is undeniable and complete. All of the scientific and biblical evidence points toward a 24 hr per day creation week. If you choose to disregard or ignore it that is certainly your perogative..My witness to you is done. I will no longer play into your juvenile diversion tactics.The truth has been told.

Show us the Hebrew word 'yom' in Daniel 8.14, brother...

 

[james2ko]

You still cannot provide the Hebrew word that you are arguing over, brother.

Keep trying...
No Hebrew rule of grammar was provided by you. Show us the Hebrew word 'yom' in Daniel 8.14, brother...

 

[Bowman]

Since you are reluctant to even show the Hebrew word(s) that you are arguing over, let’s show them to you…


Gen 1.11 And GodH430 said,H559 Let the earthH776 bring forthH1876 grass,H1877 the herbH6212 yieldingH2232 seed,H2233 and the fruitH6529 treeH6086 yieldingH6213 fruitH6529 after his kind,H4327 whoseH834 seedH2233 is in itself, uponH5921 the earth:H776 and it wasH1961 so.H3651
Gen 1.12 And the earthH776 brought forthH3318 grass,H1877 and herbH6212 yieldingH2232 seedH2233 after his kind,H4327 and the treeH6086 yieldingH6213 fruit,H6529 whoseH834 seedH2233 was in itself, after his kind:H4327 and GodH430 sawH7200 thatH3588 it was good.H2896


Now…your task is straight forward.

Which of these plants mentioned above mandates cross-pollination by insects in order for their survival?

The answer:

None of the above.

 

[james2ko]

Since you are reluctant to even show the Hebrew word(s) that you are arguing over, let’s show them to you…


Gen 1.11 And GodH430 said,H559 Let the earthH776 bring forthH1876 grass,H1877 the herbH6212 yieldingH2232 seed,H2233 and the fruitH6529 treeH6086 yieldingH6213 fruitH6529 after his kind,H4327 whoseH834 seedH2233 is in itself, uponH5921 the earth:H776 and it wasH1961 so.H3651
Gen 1.12 And the earthH776 brought forthH3318 grass,H1877 and herbH6212 yieldingH2232 seedH2233 after his kind,H4327 and the treeH6086 yieldingH6213 fruit,H6529 whoseH834 seedH2233 was in itself, after his kind:H4327 and GodH430 sawH7200 thatH3588 it was good.H2896


Now…your task is straight forward.

Which of these plants mentioned above mandates cross-pollination by insects in order for their survival?

The answer:

None of the above.

Do you realize you are ludicrously implicating that just because pollinated plants, fruits, and flowers are not specifically mentioned in Genesis, renders them not part of the creative process of day three....

 

[Bowman]

Do you realize you are ludicrously implicating that just because pollinated plants, fruits, and flowers are not specifically mentioned in Genesis, renders them not part of the creative process of day three....

You can verify for yourself that the plants mentioned on creation 'Day 3' do not warrant cross-pollination via insects, for their survival.

Thus...yet another fatal flaw in your 24hr day paradigm.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The scientific method came from Genesis, brother.

Balderdash.....