How will Trump accomplish a miracle? A question for Trump supporters.

[wellwisher]

The following is a direct quote from Donald Trump, just a few days ago, trying to get some of the female vote back.

To me, it's exactly what I expect. And I suppose to some of his base it expresses some sort of truth about what they can look forward to when he is re-elected. These are his own words, verbatim, as quoted on television for everyone to see, so don't accuse me of taking him out of context.

"We have to end this national nightmare. Because i am your protector. I want to be your protector. As President, I have to be your protector. You will no longer be abandoned, lonely or scared. You will no longer be in danger. You're not going to be in danger any longer. You will no longer have anxiety from all of the problems our country has today. Women will be happy, healthy, confident and free.​

​

But what I cannot understand is this: how does anybody -- even Trump himself -- think he is going to accomplish this absolute miracle? How does he think, that by him being President, women won't feel abandoned (even when they are), or lonely or scared (even when they are for good reason)? How will he protect them from being in danger from the things that they've always been in danger from? Where will their anxiety go? What is it that's going to make them "happy, healthy, confident and free?" Especially when the medical profession has this little problem with keeping them healthy after a miscarriage or other event associated with maternity?

I pose this question to everyone who thinks he accomplish one, just one, of those promises: HOW IS HE GOING TO DO IT?

And then, if you can't answer the question, will you admit he's a fraud?

If Trump can simply bottle up the hate and fear mongering of the DNC, which makes too many women scared and dependent on the welfare state, that will take way a lot of the pressure. Just trying to win an election, by spooking their base with Hitler references, or fear of losing freebies, is enough to make anyone paranoid. The entire base is paranoid. The drum beat of fake news is not designed to be comforting or upbeat. The Left has no hope to offer, beyond we are the lessor piece of crap. That is not very comforting. They say, do not worry about what Harris believes, is not very comforting to fear and anxiety, since her first try, added to the stress; inflated food prices.

Even the DNC approach of basing female security, on Government dependency, is not a way to make women feel safe. The national debt cannot keep growing and it is matter of time, before that boat sinks and all the dependents lose their lifeboats. What is needed is a sense of more control over one's circumstances, going forward, which is best served by feeling being able to pursue one's own America Dream. Classic marriage, alone, is more likely to bring hope, than a woman alone with her children on the dole in a risky living arrangement. These are women's choices, which need to be made conscious.

All those on the Government dole, every election season, will get frightened by the DNC's quod pro quo. Vote for us or the other side will doom you? The DNC is worse of the worse, when it comes to using social insecurity for elderly voter intimidation and manipulation. How many times have they accused the RNC of taking away Social Security and even forcing grandma to eat dog food, to scare the elderly? This time the senior vote is going Trump and they have cut their losses. I am glad since that tactic is sleazy and needs to stop. They instead, will focus fear on mongering elsewhere. If you plan to vote DNC, what do you fear most that drives you? With Trump, it is the hope of economic recovery, again. A positive vision is better for alleviating fear.

Trump may have to break the fear monger machine, and then show tangible positives for women to establish hope in the future. Just unleashing US energy, by cutting all energy costs for everyone, adds to everyone's paycheck, making more money for demand and jobs. But the fear mongers and their fake news, need to be dealt with, or they will try to sabotage with disinformation and their patented fear. We can bring in Psychology experts, to discuss the impact of fear mongering and disinformation on national health. They can use the DNC as a textbook, of the worse things people can do to each other. Public shame can go a long way to getting rid of the fear factor, that paralyze women, especially if children are involved.

If Trump can also stop the Biden and Harris wars, that will also go to making everyone feel more secure. The vision of WWIII is not calming. One of the new addenda to the DNC fear machine, is not doing anything about Iran, who has already election interfered via hacking the RNC and giving this data to their allies in the DNC. The DNC now puts foreign enemies, ahead of its citizens, like they did with all the illegal immigration. Trump was almost jailed for Russian election interference and collusion. It was a scam. I guess the DNC will have its day in court, due to now allying with an international sponsor of terror; Iran Collusion and election interference. This may be a legal way to get rid of the legacy hate mongers. Keep it up, so Trump can make you obsolete and bankrupt you defending the inevitable, truth.

 

[LuisDantas]

That is quite a lot of wishful thinking, @wellwisher

Actually, there are better words.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That is quite a lot of wishful thinking, @wellwisher

Actually, there are better words.

Not only wishful thinking by @wellwisher, but as fine a job of avoiding the question put as I've seen in a while. Except for the moderately improved grammar, you'd think @wellwisher is writing for Trump. The totally irrelevant tangents, for example, look like a give-away.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

how does anybody -- even Trump himself -- think he is going to accomplish this absolute miracle?

Trump doesn't need to have any plan to make claims like that. He may believe he can do something for women by willing it, but it's not like him to do anything for anybody else unless there's something that's in it for him, and this is a promise he understand that he doesn't need to keep, so he just makes empty claims in the desperate hope that he can win women back. He's very far behind Harris in favorability among women:

"In the current head-to-head matchup, Harris holds the advantage among Black voters (85%-7%), voters ages 18-34 (57%-34%), women (58%-37%), white voters with college degrees (59%-38%) and independents (43%-35%). All of these advantages are larger for Harris than Biden had enjoyed when he was still in the race, except among independents, where Harris’ 8-point edge is almost identical to Biden’s advantage in July." (source)​

What's left for Trump to be leading in? It looks like voters over 34, white voters with no college degree, and probably registered Republicans of any stripe (color, gender, educational status), with many falling into all three of those groups. Whatever it is, it adds up to about half of voters.

Regarding who might believe him, as you know, America divides pretty evenly between those who see through him and those who either still don't know who he is or else don't mind. That latter group is about half men who don't care about women and half women whose judgment is impaired if they're Trump supporters, and who aren't very good at evaluating evidence or deciding what is true and just trust him.

But those women are already voting for Trump, and the ones who reject him aren't fooled, so the comment probably changed no minds and earned him no new voters.

Here's another quote from Trump that says much the same but also a little more when he states that women worse off than they were four years ago including less healthy and less happy apparently oblivious to the fact that to the extent that is true, it's because of him and the Court he packed with Christian anti-choice theocrats:

“WOMEN ARE POORER THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO, ARE LESS HEALTHY THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO, ARE LESS SAFE ON THE STREETS THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO, ARE MORE DEPRESSED AND UNHAPPY THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO, AND ARE LESS OPTIMISTIC AND CONFIDENT IN THE FUTURE THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO! I WILL FIX ALL OF THAT, AND FAST, AND AT LONG LAST THIS NATIONAL NIGHTMARE WILL BE OVER. WOMEN WILL BE HAPPY, HEALTHY, CONFIDENT AND FREE!”​

@It Aint Necessarily So tried feeding one of Trump's longer quotes into Microsoft's "copilot" (which I haven't tried yet). It did fairly well, actually.

I don't find this one to be as incoherent as that one was. I understand what he's claiming. I don't believe he can do that or even would if he could, but I understand him.

Here's a link to the post to which you referred for anybody interested. That wall of words WAS incoherent - it's difficult to decide what he was trying to say - as well as an evasion of the question he was actually asked.

Even the MAGA members on this forum have been posting less and less, and it is evident they realize they can't defend their support for Trump in a way that critical thinkers demand.

Yet they remain MAGA. Changes they witness that cause them to be more reticent don't change their politics.

What is equally fascinating is why the entire republican party except for a few are not correcting him on anything he says

Doesn't the answer have to be that some are sympathizers who approve, and the rest are cowards concerned about their political futures and such as being primaried by Trump or marginalized by his sycophants in Congress and removed from committees.

he is not my protector and never will be and can’t accomplish it.

The comment was addressed to women.

If Trump can simply bottle up the hate and fear mongering of the DNC, which makes too many women scared

What you call hate and fearmongering isn't coming from the DNC, although it is coming from multiple directions, including a large swathe of ordinary Americans. Here are some of his other detractors

• Trump can't do anything about the way he is being treated by Harris or Walz, which treatment doesn't scare women; it reassures them, which is why they are doing so well with women. Harris has emasculated him with her debate performance and subsequent debate challenges that he feels he must hide from even though it makes him look weak and fearful.
• Late night talk show hosts mock him: https://edition.cnn.com/videos/media/2024/03/26/late-night-show-hosts-trump-court-orig.cnn and Trump is none too happy about it: Trump’s Late-Night Meltdown About Stephen Colbert Is Actually a Threat
• Multiple prominent celebrities have come out against him with DeNiro, Swift, Streep, Clooney, and Oprah among the most prominent: Celebs against Donald Trump
• As have many Republicans: List of Republicans who oppose the Donald Trump 2024 presidential campaign
• Then there's the economists against Trump: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/16...rump-policies-will-fuel-inflation-2024-06-25/
• And the generals against Trump: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/politics/military-leaders-trump-floyd-protests/index.html

 

[Alien826]

Elizabeth Warren summed it up (on MSNBC) with one word ... "creepy".

I agree. It does have overtones of "come behind these bushes with me, little girl, I'll show you something really good".

 

[Pogo]

Trump doesn't need to have any plan to make claims like that. He may believe he can do something for women by willing it, but it's not like him to do anything for anybody else unless there's something that's in it for him, and this is a promise he understand that he doesn't need to keep, so he just makes empty claims in the desperate hope that he can win women back. He's very far behind Harris in favorability among women:

"In the current head-to-head matchup, Harris holds the advantage among Black voters (85%-7%), voters ages 18-34 (57%-34%), women (58%-37%), white voters with college degrees (59%-38%) and independents (43%-35%). All of these advantages are larger for Harris than Biden had enjoyed when he was still in the race, except among independents, where Harris’ 8-point edge is almost identical to Biden’s advantage in July." (source)​

What's left for Trump to be leading in? It looks like voters over 34, white voters with no college degree, and probably registered Republicans of any stripe (color, gender, educational status), with many falling into all three of those groups. Whatever it is, it adds up to about half of voters.

Regarding who might believe him, as you know, America divides pretty evenly between those who see through him and those who either still don't know who he is or else don't mind. That latter group is about half men who don't care about women and half women whose judgment is impaired if they're Trump supporters, and who aren't very good at evaluating evidence or deciding what is true and just trust him.

But those women are already voting for Trump, and the ones who reject him aren't fooled, so the comment probably changed no minds and earned him no new voters.

Here's another quote from Trump that says much the same but also a little more when he states that women worse off than they were four years ago including less healthy and less happy apparently oblivious to the fact that to the extent that is true, it's because of him and the Court he packed with Christian anti-choice theocrats:

“WOMEN ARE POORER THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO, ARE LESS HEALTHY THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO, ARE LESS SAFE ON THE STREETS THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO, ARE MORE DEPRESSED AND UNHAPPY THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO, AND ARE LESS OPTIMISTIC AND CONFIDENT IN THE FUTURE THAN THEY WERE FOUR YEARS AGO! I WILL FIX ALL OF THAT, AND FAST, AND AT LONG LAST THIS NATIONAL NIGHTMARE WILL BE OVER. WOMEN WILL BE HAPPY, HEALTHY, CONFIDENT AND FREE!”​

I don't find this one to be as incoherent as that one was. I understand what he's claiming. I don't believe he can do that or even would if he could, but I understand him.

Here's a link to the post to which you referred for anybody interested. That wall of words WAS incoherent - it's difficult to decide what he was trying to say - as well as an evasion of the question he was actually asked.

Yet they remain MAGA. Changes they witness that cause them to be more reticent don't change their politics.

Doesn't the answer have to be that some are sympathizers who approve, and the rest are cowards concerned about their political futures and such as being primaried by Trump or marginalized by his sycophants in Congress and removed from committees.

The comment was addressed to women.

What you call hate and fearmongering isn't coming from the DNC, although it is coming from multiple directions, including a large swathe of ordinary Americans. Here are some of his other detractors

• Trump can't do anything about the way he is being treated by Harris or Walz, which treatment doesn't scare women; it reassures them, which is why they are doing so well with women. Harris has emasculated him with her debate performance and subsequent debate challenges that he feels he must hide from even though it makes him look weak and fearful.
• Late night talk show hosts mock him: https://edition.cnn.com/videos/media/2024/03/26/late-night-show-hosts-trump-court-orig.cnn and Trump is none too happy about it: Trump’s Late-Night Meltdown About Stephen Colbert Is Actually a Threat
• Multiple prominent celebrities have come out against him with DeNiro, Swift, Streep, Clooney, and Oprah among the most prominent: Celebs against Donald Trump
• As have many Republicans: List of Republicans who oppose the Donald Trump 2024 presidential campaign
• Then there's the economists against Trump: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/16...rump-policies-will-fuel-inflation-2024-06-25/
• And the generals against Trump: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/politics/military-leaders-trump-floyd-protests/index.html

It has nothing to do with what Trump thinks he can do, it is just his sales spiel to the ignorant.
He is rich and successful? and his audience is not so he will promise to solve all of their fears and problems, or so he promises.
There is no plan here except to get elected and shut down the prosecution of his past offenses.
To that extent, he creates boogeymen and promises to vanquish them and it works to the extent that nobody actually looks behind the curtain.
Even discussing his performing a miracle is good for him because it is taking the voice behind the curtain a potentially of value like maybe there are Haitian cat eaters in Springfield.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Can you justify your contention that America needs conservative policies? Many nations are doing much better for their people through considerably more liberal policies. Looking at developed democracies, most are higher on the happiness index and much lower on the murder index. What's more, almost all are more liberal than the United States. So why are they happier and less deadly?

	County	Happiness Index	Murder Rate/100K
1	Finland	7.804	1.245
2	Denmark	7.586	0.986
3	Iceland	7.530	1.073
4	Israel	7.473	1.626
5	Netherlands	7.403	0.808
6	Sweden	7.395	1.100
7	Norway	7.315	0.552
8	Switzerland	7.240	0.481
9	Luxembourg	7.228	1.544
10	New Zealand	7.123	1.111
11	Austria	7.097	0.884
12	Australia	7.095	0.833
13	Canada	6.961	2.273
14	Ireland	6.911	0.876
15	United States	6.894	6.383
16	Germany	6.892	0.823
17	Belgium	6.859	1.077
18	Czechia	6.845	0.839
19	United Kingdom	6.796	1.148
20	Lithuania	6.763	2.436

I could not help noticing how close our murder rate is to our happiness rate. Are you equating more murder with more happiness? Hmm, who could I take out to help?

 

[ChristineM]

Elizabeth Warren summed it up (on MSNBC) with one word ... "creepy".

I agree. It does have overtones of "come behind these bushes with me, little girl, I'll show you something really good".

That sounds like something Trump would say

 

[Subduction Zone]

That sounds like something Trump would say

Or Elon Musk.

 

[ChristineM]

Or Elon Musk.

I don't know much about him, someone i try to avoid if i see his name in a headline

 

[Pogo]

Or Elon Musk.

Musk admits 12 children and Trump 3 I think, who is creepier?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Musk admits 12 children and Trump 3 I think, who is creepier?

I try not to judge that sort of stuff -- I have 18 half brothers and sisters, of whom I am eldest. There were shenanigans in my ancestry.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Why would you say it is fundamentally different from this Obama speech?

But as hard as it may seem, we cannot lose hope, because there are people all across this great nation who are counting on us, who can't afford another four years without health care, that can't afford another four years without good schools, that can't afford another four years without decent wages because our leaders couldn't come together and get it done.

Both are vague, emotive claims that have no realistic chance of success (perhaps excluding the healthcare statement by Obama)

Obama is more articulate, but both are making aspirational claims about the future that can’t realistically be delivered.

They rely on the same logic that solutions lie in simply fixing the system/draining the swamp.

Political rhetoric is far more often about tone and sentiment than deliverable realities.

I would say that the fundamental difference is Obama was truthfully stating what the American people require from the federal government. On the quote alone, he is not claiming that only he can accomplish the things listed. He appears to be saying that the American people need the Federal government to be able to compromise in order to mitigate the problems he listed.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I would say that the fundamental difference is Obama was truthfully stating what the American people require from the federal government. On the quote alone, he is not claiming that only he can accomplish the things listed. He appears to be saying that the American people need the Federal government to be able to compromise in order to mitigate the problems he listed.

More than that, unlike Trump, who simply stated he will make women feel better, less lonely, safer without mentioning a single concrete means by which that could be accomplished, Obama did talk about the concrete: healthcare, good schools and decent wages. He didn't say these things would solve everybody's problems. He simply said, "here are some concrete areas where we do have some leverage, that we can focus on to improve American life overall."

 

[Pogo]

Why would you say it is fundamentally different from this Obama speech?

But as hard as it may seem, we cannot lose hope, because there are people all across this great nation who are counting on us, who can't afford another four years without health care, that can't afford another four years without good schools, that can't afford another four years without decent wages because our leaders couldn't come together and get it done.

Both are vague, emotive claims that have no realistic chance of success (perhaps excluding the healthcare statement by Obama)

Obama is more articulate, but both are making aspirational claims about the future that can’t realistically be delivered.

They rely on the same logic that solutions lie in simply fixing the system/draining the swamp.

Political rhetoric is far more often about tone and sentiment than deliverable realities.

One is declaring that He alone irregardless of the government is promising and the other is promising to use the organization he wishes to head will perform these actions. One is arguing he is a Messiah, the other is only claiming to be a leader.

 

[Augustus]

I would say that the fundamental difference is Obama was truthfully stating what the American people require from the federal government. On the quote alone, he is not claiming that only he can accomplish the things listed. He appears to be saying that the American people need the Federal government to be able to compromise in order to mitigate the problems he listed.

It's just a generic statement of the kind all politicians use that promise more than they can realistically achieve.

It is basically the very nature of modern political communication: vague goals related to the things their target audience is perceived to care about.

More than that, unlike Trump, who simply stated he will make women feel better, less lonely, safer without mentioning a single concrete means by which that could be accomplished, Obama did talk about the concrete: healthcare, good schools and decent wages. He didn't say these things would solve everybody's problems. He simply said, "here are some concrete areas where we do have some leverage, that we can focus on to improve American life overall."

So did Trump in the bit before the quote, it's not like he said those things in a vacuum:

"I make this statement to the great women of our country. Sadly, women are poorer than they were four years ago, are less healthy than they were four years ago, are less safe on the streets than they were four years ago, are paying much higher prices for groceries and everything else than they were four years ago.

I will fix all of that, and fast, and at long last this nation, and national nightmare, will end. It will end..."

Trump Tells Women at Rally: ‘I Am Your Protector’

Former President Donald Trump focused his attention to women voters at a rally by saying, “I want to be your

ijr.com

The game where people across the political spectrum compete to frame everything their opponents say in the most uncharitable and bad faith manner is why modern poiltics is so divisive and helps enable people like Trump to capitalise on this animosity.

It's not difficult to find things to legitimately criticise Trump about rather than manufacture ones that are pretty much the same thing that 'their side' does in a slightly different way.

It also kind of buries the lede, as it wasn't even close to being the worst thing he said in that speech:

Trump also mentioned Springfield, Ohio, which has been in the spotlight regarding the increase in Haitian migration.

The crowd yelled, “send them back,” in response.

“Do you think Springfield will ever be the same? I don’t think so,” Trump said. “The fact is, and I’ll say it now, you have to get them the hell out. You have to get them out. I’m sorry. Get them out. Can’t have it. They’ve destroyed it.”

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's just a generic statement of the kind all politicians use that promise more than they can realistically achieve.

It is basically the very nature of modern political communication: vague goals related to the things their target audience is perceived to care about.



So did Trump in the bit before the quote, it's not like he said those things in a vacuum:

"I make this statement to the great women of our country. Sadly, women are poorer than they were four years ago, are less healthy than they were four years ago, are less safe on the streets than they were four years ago, are paying much higher prices for groceries and everything else than they were four years ago.

I will fix all of that, and fast, and at long last this nation, and national nightmare, will end. It will end..."

Trump Tells Women at Rally: ‘I Am Your Protector’

Former President Donald Trump focused his attention to women voters at a rally by saying, “I want to be your

ijr.com

The game where people across the political spectrum compete to frame everything their opponents say in the most uncharitable and bad faith manner is why modern poiltics is so divisive and helps enable people like Trump to capitalise on this animosity.

It's not difficult to find things to legitimately criticise Trump about rather than manufacture ones that are pretty much the same thing that 'their side' does in a slightly different way.

It also kind of buries the lede, as it wasn't even close to being the worst thing he said in that speech:

Trump also mentioned Springfield, Ohio, which has been in the spotlight regarding the increase in Haitian migration.

The crowd yelled, “send them back,” in response.

“Do you think Springfield will ever be the same? I don’t think so,” Trump said. “The fact is, and I’ll say it now, you have to get them the hell out. You have to get them out. I’m sorry. Get them out. Can’t have it. They’ve destroyed it.”

I am well aware of all of that, and I agree that Trump said worse -- on that occasion and all others.

My point in choosing that particular part of his speech was to point the finger more at voters who seem willing to give him a pass for stuff they should be perfecty capable of realizing are nonsense. The politician who says "I can make all women happy" or "if I am president you will no longer be lonely" is saying more than any rational person ought to accept without at least a bit more information. What, he's planning to personally come and grab every woman's young cat, and that'll make her happy? How will he cure loneliness universally?

So my post wasn't so much about the trash Trump says, but why he is being foolishly believed by so many people.

 

[Augustus]

My point in choosing that particular part of his speech was to point the finger more at voters who seem willing to give him a pass for stuff they should be perfecty capable of realizing are nonsense. The politician who says "I can make all women happy" or "if I am president you will no longer be lonely" is saying more than any rational person ought to accept without at least a bit more information. What, he's planning to personally come and grab every woman's young cat, and that'll make her happy? How will he cure loneliness universally

He wasn’t saying that imo.

What he was saying was women are worse off due to crime, the economy, etc. (Similar to how he would claim men are worse off) and that these are more important than things like abortion.

It’s not exactly the most articulate speech, but not beyond the pale for normal partisan discourse.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

He wasn’t saying that imo.

What he was saying was women are worse off due to crime, the economy, etc. (Similar to how he would claim men are worse off) and that these are more important than things like abortion.

It’s not exactly the most articulate speech, but not beyond the pale for normal partisan discourse.

And which other candidate for the nation's highest office have you ever heard who has been so inarticulate? Who else has demonstrated more clearly what it’s like inside his head: a smorgasbord of falsehoods, personal and professional vendettas, frequent comparisons to other famous people, a couple of handfuls of simple policy ideas, and a lot of non sequiturs that veer into barely intelligible stories?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It's just a generic statement of the kind all politicians use that promise more than they can realistically achieve.

It is basically the very nature of modern political communication: vague goals related to the things their target audience is perceived to care about.

I agree with these statements except that, by the Obama quote alone with no other context, he does not seem to be making any promises, only stating the American people need the Federal government to be able to compromise in order to mitigate the problems he listed.