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HUMANIANITY: THE RELIGION FOR EVERYONE

dust1n

Zindīq
Well:

"WE SHOULD DO THAT WHICH WILL PROMOTE NOT ONLY THE SURVIVAL OF OUR SPECIES, BUT ALSO AS MUCH JOY, CONTENTMENT, AND APPRECIATION (JCA) AS POSSIBLE AND AS LITTLE PAIN, SUFFERING, DISABILITY, AND EARLY DEATH (PSDED) AS POSSIBLE, FOR EVERYONE, NOW AND IN THE FUTURE."


Fair enough, though it's vague enough to pretty much let anyone do anything in the name of promoting the survival of the species and maximizing JCA while minimizing PSDED.
 

Bill Van Fleet

Active Member
Well:

"WE SHOULD DO THAT WHICH WILL PROMOTE NOT ONLY THE SURVIVAL OF OUR SPECIES, BUT ALSO AS MUCH JOY, CONTENTMENT, AND APPRECIATION (JCA) AS POSSIBLE AND AS LITTLE PAIN, SUFFERING, DISABILITY, AND EARLY DEATH (PSDED) AS POSSIBLE, FOR EVERYONE, NOW AND IN THE FUTURE."


Fair enough, though it's vague enough to pretty much let anyone do anything in the name of promoting the survival of the species and maximizing JCA while minimizing PSDED.
So if you read further down the Home page of HUMANIANITY HOME, you will see an elaboration of some more specific proposals that would seem to follow from this ultimate ethical principle. Have you read that material? What do you think about those more specific proposals? Do you think they follow from the REUEP and what we currently believe about the way the world works?
 

dust1n

Zindīq
So if you read further down the Home page of HUMANIANITY HOME, you will see an elaboration of some more specific proposals that would seem to follow from this ultimate ethical principle. Have you read that material? What do you think about those more specific proposals? Do you think they follow from the REUEP and what we currently believe about the way the world works?

Study, Learn, Practice, Improve, Model, Advocacy?
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
It turns out that I should have posted this here. (I posted this under Science And Religion, where it also belongs.)

The aspect of this approach that is different from most others here is probably in the concept of "Religion," which is the concept that I believe will be used in the future, after we have undergone a lot more maturing as a species. This concept is relatively simple:

Science: The adult study of the way the world is, was, and/or will be (including what is likely to result from what is done).

Religion: The adult study of whether we should do things or not (i.e., the construction of a basic ethical philosophy for each individual and for our species in general).

Humanianity is a movement taking place within the religions, and within our species in general, that is a shift from authoritarian ethics (based upon the arbitrarily chosen authoritarian-ethical ultimate ethical principle that we should do whatever X wants us to do, X being whoever or whatever is most powerful, such as parent, leader, group, culture, or deity) to rational ethics (based upon the arbitrarily chosen rational-ethical ultimate ethical principle, presented at HUMANIANITY HOME.

Most people think of "Religion" as an explanatory worldview that is different from that offered by Science, but if we look at all those things we have called a "religion," then the definition given above would be most appropriate.

Where have adults always gone to study the way the world is, was, and/or will be?

Where have adults always gone to study how to be good people?

There is indeed a relationship between the way the world works and what we should and should not do. Before the advent of Science, both of those functions were carried out by Religion, but now Science has given us the ability to attain extremely accurate beliefs about the nature of the world, enabling us to do what previously would have been considered "miraculous." Our religions have been having to come to terms with the appearance and relevance of Science, and that is what much of the current distress within the religions is about. Humanianity is the way forward, preserving and honoring the religious traditions while growing beyond the outmoded parts of them. This is no different than the maturing of each individual.

The new tool available to everyone who wishes to participate in the development of a basic ethical philosophy for themselves and our species is the Humanian Belief Manual. (You will have to read about it and explore it in order not to have inaccurate beliefs about the nature of it based upon stereotyping.) It is at Participating in Humanianity.
Who gets to decide and how are conflicts of decisions handled?
 

Bill Van Fleet

Active Member
Who gets to decide and how are conflicts of decisions handled?
I'm not sure I understand. The Belief Manual is just a place where everyone can see what beliefs are held by how many people. It is a study guide, and a way of knowing to what extent you believe the same as others. There is no requirement of agreement. There is just the ability to see how much agreement there is. Are you talking about the Belief Manual?
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Yes, for the reasons given, but there is much, much more. Keep reading. See if you agree, and if not, why not?

The problem is that the proposals and the reason given, are still extensively vague. Most evil people in the world study, learn, practice, improve, model and advocate for things they sincerely believe to aiding to the survival of the species, and that would increase happiness and decrease sadness.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
I'm not sure I understand. The Belief Manual is just a place where everyone can see what beliefs are held by how many people. It is a study guide, and a way of knowing to what extent you believe the same as others. There is no requirement of agreement. There is just the ability to see how much agreement there is. Are you talking about the Belief Manual?
Interesting.
If the goal is to reduce the bad things and increase the good things, who gets to decide what is good and what is bad?
 

Bill Van Fleet

Active Member
I agree...here is how to go...the next post....list 5 bullet points of what you are trying to accomplish...if any of them are of interest...we will let you know...!!!
I have been asked to describe what I am trying to accomplish. To do a meaningful job of that, I will have to go into some detail.

What I am trying to accomplish:

I am trying to pay forward, in gratitude for all that my species has done for me. What follows is how I am attempting to do that.

I am trying to share a set of observations and conclusions, and to share a set of proposals based upon those observations and conclusions. These observations have been by virtue of my own personal history, two main components of that history being my having been a psychiatrist for about five decades and my having had an interest in philosophy/religion since my teens.

The conclusions I am trying to share have to do with my belief that our species is just beginning to undergo a third exponential change, these exponential changes being ones making our species drastically different from all other species and from the way it was before the change had significantly begun. (The first exponential change was the development of an essentially infinite ability to model our beliefs with symbols and the rules of syntax, giving us language; the second exponential change has been the development of the rules of logic and the rules of evidence, ultimately giving us, through highly accurate models of “reality,” science and technology.) I note that because of the conclusions I have come to regarding the third exponential change, including their more specific elaborations, I have acquired rather markedly different beliefs than most people have about some rather basic issues that are of central importance to the fate of our species.

I am trying to share a conclusion that the third exponential change is a change in our ethics (our beliefs as to what we should and should not do, and how those beliefs are legitimated). This change is one from “authoritarian ethics” (my term for an ethical belief system that is ultimately legitimated by showing consistency with the “authoritarian-ethical ultimate ethical principle,” i.e., that “we should do whatever X wants us to do, X being whoever or whatever is most powerful, e.g., parent, leader, group, culture, deity”) to “rational-ethics” (my term for an ethical belief system that is ultimately legitimated by showing consistency with the “rational-ethical ultimate ethical principle,” i.e., that “we should do whatever will promote not only the survival of our species but also as much joy, contentment, and appreciation as possible and as little pain, suffering, disability, and early death as possible, for everyone, now and in the future.”). Because our primary adult way of studying how to be good people (i.e., ethics) has always been our religions (which have always also had other functions, of course), the third exponential change will be a change in Religion, my term for that emerging process within Religion being “Humanianity.”

I am trying to share more specific conclusions regarding some ways in which our species will be living far differently than the way we have always lived so far, with examples in the areas of anger-prevention, child rearing, and belief management, along with some more general and uncertain ideas about government and religion. My metaphoric term for our species at that time is “Homo rationalis,” though the third exponential change is purely a psychosocial change, not a genetic one. This label is used to emphasize the drastic difference between human behavior at that time in the future and human behavior as it has always been so far.

And I am trying to provide a tool that our species can use to make this third exponential change occur a little faster, the tool being the Humanian Belief Manual, a study guide which allows all of us to examine each other’s beliefs more clearly and to see how much agreement there is with regard to each of the beliefs, as our species works on the development of an agreed-upon basic ethical philosophy for our species, i.e., a set of high level ethical principles for all areas of living. (There is a Forum that goes along with the Belief Manual, so that people can actually have dialogue with each other about the differences in their beliefs, or any related issues.) In the Belief Manual, there is an emphasis upon clarity of the language used to model the beliefs, including the use of definitions associated with the proposed beliefs.

And with regard to all of the above, I am trying to reach out to and find people who would actually be interested in these ideas and would want to explore them in greater detail, recognizing that only very, very few people will have such interest currently, because of a pervasive pessimism/cynicism that almost everyone has with regard to things really getting substantially better than they have always been and still are to a great extent. This reaching out is my advocacy for the third exponential change, doing my part to promote it, as well as my effort at obtaining feedback from others with regard to the ideas, in order to identify any flaws in my thinking, so as to improve my advocacy as well as to evaluate the appropriateness of it.

So that is a summary of what I am trying to accomplish. All aspects of the above are explored in great detail at HUMANIANITY HOME.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Oy vey, Bill......ok, I've captured the list....I will bullet it for you when I have time.


I have been asked to describe what I am trying to accomplish. To do a meaningful job of that, I will have to go into some detail.

What I am trying to accomplish:

I am trying to pay forward, in gratitude for all that my species has done for me. What follows is how I am attempting to do that.

I am trying to share a set of observations and conclusions, and to share a set of proposals based upon those observations and conclusions. These observations have been by virtue of my own personal history, two main components of that history being my having been a psychiatrist for about five decades and my having had an interest in philosophy/religion since my teens.

The conclusions I am trying to share have to do with my belief that our species is just beginning to undergo a third exponential change, these exponential changes being ones making our species drastically different from all other species and from the way it was before the change had significantly begun. (The first exponential change was the development of an essentially infinite ability to model our beliefs with symbols and the rules of syntax, giving us language; the second exponential change has been the development of the rules of logic and the rules of evidence, ultimately giving us, through highly accurate models of “reality,” science and technology.) I note that because of the conclusions I have come to regarding the third exponential change, including their more specific elaborations, I have acquired rather markedly different beliefs than most people have about some rather basic issues that are of central importance to the fate of our species.

I am trying to share a conclusion that the third exponential change is a change in our ethics (our beliefs as to what we should and should not do, and how those beliefs are legitimated). This change is one from “authoritarian ethics” (my term for an ethical belief system that is ultimately legitimated by showing consistency with the “authoritarian-ethical ultimate ethical principle,” i.e., that “we should do whatever X wants us to do, X being whoever or whatever is most powerful, e.g., parent, leader, group, culture, deity”) to “rational-ethics” (my term for an ethical belief system that is ultimately legitimated by showing consistency with the “rational-ethical ultimate ethical principle,” i.e., that “we should do whatever will promote not only the survival of our species but also as much joy, contentment, and appreciation as possible and as little pain, suffering, disability, and early death as possible, for everyone, now and in the future.”). Because our primary adult way of studying how to be good people (i.e., ethics) has always been our religions (which have always also had other functions, of course), the third exponential change will be a change in Religion, my term for that emerging process within Religion being “Humanianity.”

I am trying to share more specific conclusions regarding some ways in which our species will be living far differently than the way we have always lived so far, with examples in the areas of anger-prevention, child rearing, and belief management, along with some more general and uncertain ideas about government and religion. My metaphoric term for our species at that time is “Homo rationalis,” though the third exponential change is purely a psychosocial change, not a genetic one. This label is used to emphasize the drastic difference between human behavior at that time in the future and human behavior as it has always been so far.

And I am trying to provide a tool that our species can use to make this third exponential change occur a little faster, the tool being the Humanian Belief Manual, a study guide which allows all of us to examine each other’s beliefs more clearly and to see how much agreement there is with regard to each of the beliefs, as our species works on the development of an agreed-upon basic ethical philosophy for our species, i.e., a set of high level ethical principles for all areas of living. (There is a Forum that goes along with the Belief Manual, so that people can actually have dialogue with each other about the differences in their beliefs, or any related issues.) In the Belief Manual, there is an emphasis upon clarity of the language used to model the beliefs, including the use of definitions associated with the proposed beliefs.

And with regard to all of the above, I am trying to reach out to and find people who would actually be interested in these ideas and would want to explore them in greater detail, recognizing that only very, very few people will have such interest currently, because of a pervasive pessimism/cynicism that almost everyone has with regard to things really getting substantially better than they have always been and still are to a great extent. This reaching out is my advocacy for the third exponential change, doing my part to promote it, as well as my effort at obtaining feedback from others with regard to the ideas, in order to identify any flaws in my thinking, so as to improve my advocacy as well as to evaluate the appropriateness of it.

So that is a summary of what I am trying to accomplish. All aspects of the above are explored in great detail at HUMANIANITY HOME.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
So...here's what I would like to do...lets re-work this....shall we call it.....philosophy....for Bill.....the two main problems are.....1) the name....no one likes it...so lets give a new one....and....2) bullet points....lets start with these as a scaffold and build the philosophy from there.....Bill is our spiritual leader here....but he is a weak communicator...so we have to do it for him...

New Title of Our Philosophy:

Dust1n's Re-write

1) Study - share a set of observations and conclusions.

2) Learn - a third exponential change.

3) Practice - Homo rationalis.

4) Improve - high level ethical principles.

5) Model - initiate dialogue.

6) Advocate - recruit members.
 
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Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Problems with Bill's philosophy:

Bill...I have put your philosophy in a more readable, and logical form for people to begin to understand....and work with....so here's the problem...it's still a matter of....where's the beef...???.....and this is where you come in.....please give us your thoughts on the outline above....but keep it short and succinct...!!!!
 

Bill Van Fleet

Active Member
Well, it is obvious that you have no wish to understand the concepts I have come up with. Your wish is to demonstrate destructive prowess. I don't know why this is so, and I regret it. I am glad, however, that you asked me to clarify what I was trying to accomplish. It was a good exercise, and I may be able to use the result elsewhere.

I am curious as to why you are taking this hostile, demeaning approach to my contributions. Is there something I have said that has led you to wish to do this?
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Well, it is obvious that you have no wish to understand the concepts I have come up with. Your wish is to demonstrate destructive prowess. I don't know why this is so, and I regret it. I am glad, however, that you asked me to clarify what I was trying to accomplish. It was a good exercise, and I may be able to use the result elsewhere.

I am curious as to why you are taking this hostile, demeaning approach to my contributions. Is there something I have said that has led you to wish to do this?
Can you write your points out in the same format that I have done.....which is readable and understandable.....????...if not...why not...???
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
My goal is to be understood. Your goal, I believe, is to take all meaning out of what I am presenting.
I will make you a pinky bet......that the readers understand the abstract I created....using Dust1n's outline.....better than all 95 of your posts...plus your 100 page belief manual....problem is...there is still no clear new ideas presented...!!!
 

Bill Van Fleet

Active Member
And you well know that that outline specifies nothing about what those 5 items are about. Study what? Learn what? Practice what? etc. It is the "what" that is missing, and you know that. If you or anyone has trouble understanding one of my sentences, why not quote it, state what it seems to mean to you, and ask me if that is correct? Or if it has no meaning for you, explain why. A clear new idea is not conveyed in one word.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
And you well know that that outline specifies nothing about what those 5 items are about. Study what? Learn what? Practice what? etc. It is the "what" that is missing, and you know that. If you or anyone has trouble understanding one of my sentences, why not quote it, state what it seems to mean to you, and ask me if that is correct? Or if it has no meaning for you, explain why. A clear new idea is not conveyed in one word.

Sure. Study what? Learn what? Practice what?... I did not see anything advising that.
 

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Sure. Study what? Learn what? Practice what?... I did not see anything advising that.
I fully agree, Dust1n....I think you have made a good faith effort trying to interpret and systematize Bill's philosophy for him....and did you receive as much as a....thank you....I have not seen it, yet... !!!
 
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