Humans are still evolving...

[Android]

Well, that's a tautology. They are "random" precisely because we don't have enough information to predict them with certainty. But nevertheless, if cosmic energy bounces through the atmosphere and alters a gene, it got there because of all the prior movements of energy/matter in in the Universe that led up to its being at that point in spacetime. In that sense, it is not intrinsically random. It was always going to happen just as it happened. We just didn't know enough to predict it with complete certainty. The probability collapses therefore, only when we determine that it has already occurred.

You may be right, one day we may know more about biochem and maybe we will be able to predict mutations. Until such time, for purely practical purposes, it's "random".

 

[Copernicus]

Well, that's a tautology. They are "random" precisely because we don't have enough information to predict them with certainty. But nevertheless, if cosmic energy bounces through the atmosphere and alters a gene, it got there because of all the prior movements of energy/matter in in the Universe that led up to its being at that point in spacetime. In that sense, it is not intrinsically random. It was always going to happen just as it happened. We just didn't know enough to predict it with complete certainty. The probability collapses therefore, only when we determine that it has already occurred.

There are two aspects to randomness--unpredictability and lack of causality. Normally, we associate the two, but we do know that deterministic systems can be unpredictable. True randomness involves indeterminacy. In the physical world, determinacy is related to the planck scale. At sizes and distances below the planck length, indeterminacy is theoretically absolute--i.e. truly random.

 

[Thief]

Well in that case, I see your point. It also explains why Thief and others think that evolution suggests we all got here by random accident.

I however don't think "random" mutations could ever be predictable, so it's fair to call them "random" mutations.

What I think....
Evolution is a mechanism.
The device we call life produces intelligence as individual entities.

God did it.
This particular form we call human produces a much higher intelligence.
That makes us interesting to God.

The life cycle we endure is short....because exposure need not be of great length.
Learning of this world is what we are made for.
We then move on to greater things.

But that discussion includes the Creator.

 

[darkendless]

What I think....
Evolution is a mechanism.
The device we call life produces intelligence as individual entities.

God did it.
This particular form we call human produces a much higher intelligence.
That makes us interesting to God.

The life cycle we endure is short....because exposure need not be of great length.
Learning of this world is what we are made for.
We then move on to greater things.

But that discussion includes the Creator.

I'm somewhat curious how you seem to know all these characteristics of God. How do you we're interesting to something many believers maintain is beyond or understanding?

 

[doppelganger]

At sizes and distances below the planck length, indeterminacy is theoretically absolute--i.e. truly random.

Or at least it appears so from the models we are using.

 

[Thief]

I'm somewhat curious how you seem to know all these characteristics of God. How do you we're interesting to something many believers maintain is beyond or understanding?

While attempting to be relevant to this thread.....

There are 6billion copies of this form we call Man.
Each one develops a mindful individual.

Why?

6billion copies each one headed for the ground...to be dust.
And no spiritual survivors?...not one?

The body delivers this living experience.....then it fails.
Not a chance of continuance?...no afterlife?

Centuries ago this form was something less.
Man changed.
At some point that change was rather ...'expedient'.
(something about 'breathing a soul into him)

As the body becomes more refined...so too the mind within it.

And you think all of this is terminal....
just because you make no time to consider an afterlife.
And you don't believe it...because you can't 'see' it.

(This forum is a collection of threads, that should be coming together.
Instead it seems unraveled. God and evolution are not disassociated because of science.
They are disassociated because of stubborn denial)

 

[camanintx]

The body delivers this living experience.....then it fails.
Not a chance of continuance?...no afterlife?

Even though each individual is destined to end, life itself goes on. The only intrinsic purpose in life is to continue living. Any other meaning we give it is of our own creation.

 

[Thief]

Even though each individual is destined to end, life itself goes on. The only intrinsic purpose in life is to continue living. Any other meaning we give it is of our own creation.

You're trying to side step.

The purpose of this life is to learn all you can.

That is the only thing your body can actually do for you.

Then back to God you go.

The portion I highlighted....is just more opportunity for another soul.

 

[Copernicus]

The purpose of this life is to learn all you can.

Why do you think that this is the purpose of life? It's not as if reporting all the accumulated knowledge of a lifetime to God would do God any good. In principle, he doesn't need anything from human beings, including their accumulated knowledge.

 

[darkendless]

And you think all of this is terminal....
just because you make no time to consider an afterlife.
And you don't believe it...because you can't 'see' it.

(This forum is a collection of threads, that should be coming together.
Instead it seems unraveled. God and evolution are not disassociated because of science.
They are disassociated because of stubborn denial)

It would be easier if you were less philisophical and more straight to the point.

I don't believe what is not-logical. Logic is our way of understanding. I'm not about to to go out of my way to seek belief in something that is only there because you say it is, thats rediculous.

Stubborn denial of what? Science makes no attempt to define things that aren't there and cannot be defined.

You didn't even answer the question I asked. How come you can speak for a God that is beyond your understanding?

 

[Thief]

It would be easier if you were less philisophical and more straight to the point.

I don't believe what is not-logical. Logic is our way of understanding. I'm not about to to go out of my way to seek belief in something that is only there because you say it is, thats rediculous.

Stubborn denial of what? Science makes no attempt to define things that aren't there and cannot be defined.

You didn't even answer the question I asked. How come you can speak for a God that is beyond your understanding?

First you make a statement of length that displays your sense of denial....
then ask me a question which I did answer....
saying I did not answer your question...
having made display that you would not believe me ...anyway.

Science is no more than a study of how things work.
And you think science, for it's lack of 'greater' application.....
allows denial of God?

Science shows the mechanism God made.

Being philosophical IS making the point.
Logic does not depend on science.
Science...the repeatable experiment.... depends on logic.
Logic can be applied to many types of thought.

From another thread....I quote myself...


I borrowed a book from a college counselor.....'logic'

It had an example of a technique called 'pharaoh's child'.

Picture yourself living in a world having only four legged animals.
You then find a table...but have never seen one before.

Is it an animal? If the critique is 'four legged'...then yes.
It might be a dead animal...a rigid carcass with some pieces missing...

The example was placed to show how a lack of information can result in a poor ...but logical... result.

In all fairness....not all logic is 'tangible'."

Logic when aimed at God produces a great many perspectives.
Look around you, here at the forum.
No two people seem to share a common perspective....world wide.

Does that mean no body has it right?
Including you?

And what portion of my postings would be illogical?
The ones that would bear spiritual emphasis?
The ones you don't like?

 

[outhouse]

I dont see a valid point anywhere

with your definition man would never crawl out of a wet cardboard box unless the persons religion gave him permission.


I honestly think your really confused how science really works after reading that.

The example was placed to show how a lack of information can result in a poor ...but logical... result.

if we let uneducated people with little intellect make choices on a regular basis and do the opposite of science. you might have a point, in these modern times you dont make a bit of sense

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Yes, humans as well as all other life on this planet are still evolving. This we have a plethora of evidences that substantiate this but we can not attribute the beginning of life on this planet or its diversification on the god of the bible of any other creator gods for that matter as there is no evidence to substantiate those religious claims.

 

[Thief]

I dont see a valid point anywhere

Blind?...or just in constant denial....

with your definition man would never crawl out of a wet cardboard box unless the persons religion gave him permission.


I honestly think your really confused how science really works after reading that.

Science is not a trump card....and I am not confused.

if we let uneducated people with little intellect make choices on a regular basis and do the opposite of science. you might have a point, in these modern times you dont make a bit of sense

And of course you conveniently overlook....reference found on a college counselors desk...a borrowed book.

That I have an above average IQ means nothing to you.

That I happen to love science means nothing to you.

And I stopped thinking inside the box...a long time ago.

Obviously there is a box...waiting for you.

 

[Thief]

Yes, humans as well as all other life on this planet are still evolving. This we have a plethora of evidences that substantiate this but we can not attribute the beginning of life on this planet or its diversification on the god of the bible of any other creator gods for that matter as there is no evidence to substantiate those religious claims.

So don't use religion.

Use logic...and make a choice.

Which came first?...intellect or substance.

The deal with the consequence for your choice.

 

[outhouse]

And of course you conveniently overlook....reference found on a college counselors desk...a borrowed book.

im sorry but were not talking about people with down syndrome. the reference was not even close to reality.

your reaching with extra special pleading.

That I have an above average IQ means nothing to you.

That I happen to love science means nothing to you.

thats not relevant to the deabte

Obviously there is a box...waiting for you.

yes there is, waiting for me when i get home today

 

[Thief]

im sorry but were not talking about people with down syndrome. the reference was not even close to reality.

your reaching with extra special pleading.




thats not relevant to the deabte




yes there is, waiting for me when i get home today

Just like someone else I know....
you think you can undo someone else's post with simple minded denial.

Back to #191

 

[outhouse]

you provide no evidence and demand belief

wont happen.

if you havnt noticed this thread is about how humans are still evolving.

its not talking about abiogenesis


do you have anything relevant to add??

 

[logician]

For those who understand evolution:

No we aren't going to grow an arm on our head.

Evolution is a change in allele frequency in the population.

Evolution is happening right now, in front of us.

Not into a separate species. You would have to have total reproductive isolation of a subset on homo sapiens to evolve a new separate species. That situatiom dos not currently exist on earth.

 

[Thief]

Not into a separate species. You would have to have total reproductive isolation of a subset on homo sapiens to evolve a new separate species. That situatiom dos not currently exist on earth.

Where do you draw the line?...and how to find it...

How about a savant?...their different.
Their abilities indicate 'something going on', unlike everyone else.

Think it's genetic?....