Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor of Apes

[Sonofason]

Credit for "bringing" up something that we discuss daily on various threads is hardly the point.

But to that point, which goes to the veracity of your claims in general, "kinds" are first mentioned back in post 746 by Aman777. I respond to Aman777 in post 908. You do not address the subject until post 1922.

If we look for the word "species" we find that Aman777 was first, back in post 459, while I come in, again responding to Aman777 in post 469, and you drag up the rear, again, at 1154.

The point is an understanding of the concepts that does not do great violence to all of modern science.

I agree.

 

[shawn001]

Yes, evolution is descent with modification; it is change in gene frequency within a population of species over time.
And it certainly might be true that species do change over time. In fact, species might even change to such an extent that they fall in to a new classification category of species as presently defined.

Or go from dinosaurs to birds.

Yes, evolution is descent with modification; it is change in gene frequency within a population of species over time.
And it certainly might be true that species do change over time. In fact, species might even change to such an extent that they fall in to a new classification category of species as presently defined.

Single cell to everything in between to us.

 

[shawn001]

"a joint statement of IAP by 68 national and international science academies lists as established scientific fact that Earth is approximately 4.6 billion years old and has undergone continual change; that life, according to the evidence of earliest fossils, appeared on Earth at least 3.8 billion years ago and has subsequently taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve; and that the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicates their common primordial origin"

Voices for Evolution

 

[Sonofason]

There are several problems with your reasoning right off the bat. Most importantly, every element came out of the Big Bang, which was basically Anti-Matter and Matter fighting it out with Matter as the winner. Everything (planets, stars, comets, people, animals, blades of grass, etc.) came from the "matter" that was left. So, there was nothing that could have been created before the Big Bang, as (assuming that there is a "creator") it was the device that brought forth everything.

In addition, you are using circular logic. You are using your theory (that the Bible is God's Word and is, thus, Accurate) to prove that theory (that the Bible is correct re: creation). This is a logical falacy and, any logician will agree, that it does not act to prove anything. If you are going to use the Bible as a telling of history (which didn't even exist when it was written ... recorded history, anyways), you must, as with any scientific theory, demonstrate it's FUTURE accuracy. You have merely provided examples of how the book of Genesis can be shaped or interpreted to fit scientific discovery. This can be done with almost any piece of literature that is as vague as the Bible, and is no real accomplishment. I would say that, unless you can demonstrate how modern science and nature shows that human beings came long before any other animal, you have no real argument to stand on. You merely have faith that the Bible is an accurate account of History.

Also, I'm surprised to say it, but I think you need to take a look at Genesis again. "Light," which could only be described by a star (or the sun) was created on the 1st day. In actuality, we know that the idea of a "day" could not exist without star light. So, according to Genesis, God either lit our Sun before the rest of the stars, or the book claims that stars were lit up on the first day.

L.I.S.A. is not meant to prove anything related to multi-verses (or parallel universes), to the best of my knowledge. I just did a bit of refresher reading and found no mention of any intention to test this hypothesis. Can you ellaborate on why you feel that L.I.S.A. has anything to do with your claim?

The Big Bang was the light event caused by God speaking light into existance. "Let there be light".
In the beginning once God spoke, there was no matter at all. It was all light. And over time it all began to condense into matter which clustered due to gravity and formed the stars and other physical celestial bodies.

The Bible sometimes defines God as Light. "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all."
(1 John 1:5)

The dictionary defines the word "day" as "a time of light".

If God is present, as He was during epochs of creation, it was day.

A morning is defined as the early portion of a day.

Evening is defined as the latter portion of a day.

God is the light of the 7 day creation, not the sun, not reflections from the moon; It was God.

 

[Sonofason]

Explain to us evolution and mass extinction events like the dinosuars for one, but there have been others? Were humans around with the dinosaurs?

Where did the our atmosphere come from and oxygen, because it is the way it is today because of evolution.

I suggest if you want to learn about evolution, read a book. If there's something about evolution that you're confused about, I'll be happy to explain it to you.
Many dinosaurs went extinct because they stopped reproducing. I think they stopped reproducing because they all died from a catastrophic event.

It doesn't seem likely that humans were around with the dinosaurs, but I personally have not discarded the possibility that human beings were around. I haven't seen sufficient evidence either way to make that determination.

 

[shawn001]

The Big Bang was the light event caused by God speaking light into existance. "Let there be light".
In the beginning once God spoke, there was no matter at all. It was all light. And over time it all began to condense into matter which clustered due to gravity and formed the stars and other physical celestial bodies.

The Bible sometimes defines God as Light. "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all."
(1 John 1:5)

The dictionary defines the word "day" as "a time of light".

If God is present, as He was during epochs of creation, it was day.

A morning is defined as the early portion of a day.

Evening is defined as the latter portion of a day.

God is the light of the 7 day creation, not the sun, not reflections from the moon; It was God.

Please explain this seems to be a new hypothesis? NOT

 

[shawn001]

I suggest if you want to learn about evolution, read a book. If there's something about evolution that you're confused about, I'll be happy to explain it to you.
Many dinosaurs went extinct because they stopped reproducing. I think they stopped reproducing because they all died from a catastrophic event.

It doesn't seem likely that humans were around with the dinosaurs, but I personally have not discarded the possibility that human beings were around. I haven't seen sufficient evidence either way to make that determination.

"I suggest if you want to learn about evolution, read a book. If there's something about evolution that you're confused about, I'll be happy to explain it to you."

I think I am okay on that one.

"It doesn't seem likely that humans were around with the dinosaurs"

They weren't

"but I personally have not discarded the possibility that human beings were around."

You need too.

"Many dinosaurs went extinct because they stopped reproducing. I think they stopped reproducing because they all died from a catastrophic event."

Dinosaurs who by the way certainly weren't the first, went extinct because the Earth got hit by an asteroid from space 65 million years ago.

There was another large group before them who also went extinct the Pelycosaurs, Archosaurs, Therapsids , when they went extinct it lead to the dinosaurs, when they went extinct it lead to mammals and to us.


"I haven't seen sufficient evidence either way to make that determination"

Its called the KT boundry.

 

[Bunyip]

Yes, evolution is descent with modification; it is change in gene frequency within a population of species over time.
And it certainly might be true that species do change over time. In fact, species might even change to such an extent that they fall in to a new classification category of species as presently defined.

That species change over time is proven by direct observation. I see no point in your game of denial.

 

[Muffled]

Dear Muffled, The sons of God (prehistoric people) were Innocent animals. Cain's wife was a member of that group because Flesh begets Flesh. Can you explain HOW a son of God (Who is an invisible Spirit) produced today's Humans? Of course not since you have NO support for your idea. Read Gen 6:1-4 to find out how it really happened. God Bless you

I beleive this says they are men:
4 ¶ The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

I don't have a clue what that is about. Cain was much earlier.

There is no evidence of this. There is historical evidence that Caucasians moved south from the Caucasus into Persia and it is likely they moved into Mesopotamia as well. Since the caucasian people were offspring of the gods it makes sense.

I believe the concept would be that the immortal coupling with the mortal would lead to increased mortality.

I believe that was speculation on your part.

I am simply a servant. Servants don't need to be blessed but only to serve but I appreciate the good wishes and wish you well in the Lord as well.

 

[Muffled]

The difference being that the fossil evidence, which is evidence enough, would be like taking a photograph of that guy and then giving a photograph of that guy with his son. Then a photograph of his son with his son in turn all the way down the line to you. Then would you be able to say you "might" be related to him?

And this isn't even beginning to count DNA evidence which fundamentally functions on evolution.

I have read some of Leakey's material and I don't see that as part of his rationale.

I believe DNA works on mutations. That is not exactly equivalent to evolution. The natural selection part probably applies since any mutation that produces a malfunction would eliminate the product of the mutation.
I don't have a lot of data on this and the field of study is still growing. I believe it will change scientific knowledge just as it has meant release for prisoners found guilty but the DNA proves they weren't.

 

[jonathan180iq]

There is historical evidence that Caucasians moved south from the Caucasus into Persia and it is likely they moved into Mesopotamia as well. Since the caucasian people were offspring of the gods it makes sense.

 

[Midnight Rain]

I have read some of Leakey's material and I don't see that as part of his rationale.

Then i doubt you would be very receptive to actual information at all then.

I believe DNA works on mutations. That is not exactly equivalent to evolution. The natural selection part probably applies since any mutation that produces a malfunction would eliminate the product of the mutation.
I don't have a lot of data on this and the field of study is still growing. I believe it will change scientific knowledge just as it has meant release for prisoners found guilty but the DNA proves they weren't.

So you believe that evolution is correct but you don't want to call it evolution and you deny that even though it exists it doesn't actually do anything. Right.

So what if we have a mutation that allows someone to digest some new food. And that food then becomes plentiful in the area. Would the gene be removed from the population or would it likely thrive?

 

[Ben West]

(1) There are several problems with your reasoning right off the bat. Most importantly, every element came out of the Big Bang, which was basically Anti-Matter and Matter fighting it out with Matter as the winner. Everything (planets, stars, comets, people, animals, blades of grass, etc.) came from the "matter" that was left. So, there was nothing that could have been created before the Big Bang, as (assuming that there is a "creator") it was the device that brought forth everything.

(2) In addition, you are using circular logic. You are using your theory (that the Bible is God's Word and is, thus, Accurate) to prove that theory (that the Bible is correct re: creation). This is a logical falacy and, any logician will agree, that it does not act to prove anything. If you are going to use the Bible as a telling of history (which didn't even exist when it was written ... recorded history, anyways), you must, as with any scientific theory, demonstrate it's FUTURE accuracy. You have merely provided examples of how the book of Genesis can be shaped or interpreted to fit scientific discovery. This can be done with almost any piece of literature that is as vague as the Bible, and is no real accomplishment. I would say that, unless you can demonstrate how modern science and nature shows that human beings came long before any other animal, you have no real argument to stand on. You merely have faith that the Bible is an accurate account of History.

(3) Also, I'm surprised to say it, but I think you need to take a look at Genesis again. "Light," which could only be described by a star (or the sun) was created on the 1st day. In actuality, we know that the idea of a "day" could not exist without star light. So, according to Genesis, God either lit our Sun before the rest of the stars, or the book claims that stars were lit up on the first day.

(4) L.I.S.A. is not meant to prove anything related to multi-verses (or parallel universes), to the best of my knowledge. I just did a bit of refresher reading and found no mention of any intention to test this hypothesis. Can you ellaborate on why you feel that L.I.S.A. has anything to do with your claim?

Dear leib, I added the numbers one to four in order to REFUTE your False ideas;

1. You are confused because you don't know that Adam's Earth was made on the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos. Gen 2:4 Nor do you know that Adam's Earth was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. Isiah 24:19 All you have is your personal opinion. Therefore, your rant is refuted by the best and only information available from God.

2. Genesis teaches that we live in a Multverse composed of 3 other Universes. Today's physicists agree and string theory shows that there could be some 11 Universes within our Multiverse. Michio Kaku from 2008, tells us that LISA Pathfinder can or cannot confirm that we live in a Multiverse. This is important since the ESA is scheduled to launch the Satellites in 2015. It measures gravitational waves from the beginning of our world.

3. Jesus is the Light of the First Day. He is the only God ever formed physically and the ONLY God who will EVER be formed physically. Isa 43:10 Jesus is ALSO the Light of New Jerusalem in Heaven. Rev 21:23 You should actually read and try to comprehend what is written. This might avoid future embarrassment when you must stand before a Being BRIGHTER than the Noonday Sun to be Judged for the deeds done in the Flesh..

4. It is obvious that you didn't see the end of the Video which tells you WHY it's important to measure the gravitational waves since IF they don't match what we know it's because of gravitational waves from BEYOND our Universe.

As you should be able to see, I support what I write with the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science and History so the False Accusation that I use circular reasoning is refuted. I prefer to show this agreement but sometimes the Godless men of this world haven't gotten around to discovering what God told us in Genesis YET. I've also noticed that Godless scientists can ONLY support their False Theories with the agreement of another Godless scientist who worships at the same Altar of Godless Evolutionism, which is the biggest Satanic Lie ever forced upon our little children in the Public Schools.

 

[Ben West]

First

"King James Bible
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:"

"Multiverse composed of at least 3 Universes or separate Ecosystems." are NOT in Genesis.

Second the creation story is just like the Sumerians version and that was a different religion, so if yours is right was their's?


"hat the beginning of our Cosmos (Big bang) was on the THIRD Day. Gen 2:4 Hubble and other Space Telescopes have recently learned that it was Hundreds of Millions of years AFTER the Big Bang BEFORE the first Stars lit up. Gen 1:16 correctly shows this event happening on the FOURTH Day in total agreement with Hubble and God."


Nice try but wrong big time for a lot of reasons. Was there an earth before any star?

Dear shawn, Adam's earth was made on the 3rd Day Gen 1:9-10 and the first Stars of our cosmos lit up on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16

The Multiverse is revealed in Gen 1:6-8 which is the FIRST firmament or boundary of Adam's world and it was made the SECOND Day and God called it Heaven. Other HeavenS or boundaries of other worlds were NOT made until the THIRD Day. Gen 2:4 This includes our Cosmos and the THIRD Heaven of 2Co 12:2. Your False implication that I have added to Scripture is soundly REFUTED. Try again?

 

[`mud]

What was that old expression about arguing with an idiot......?????
Geeeeeeeeessssssssuuuuuuuueeeeeeese !!!
~
'mud

 

[shawn001]

Dear shawn, Adam's earth was made on the 3rd Day Gen 1:9-10 and the first Stars of our cosmos lit up on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16

The Multiverse is revealed in Gen 1:6-8 which is the FIRST firmament or boundary of Adam's world and it was made the SECOND Day and God called it Heaven. Other HeavenS or boundaries of other worlds were NOT made until the THIRD Day. Gen 2:4 This includes our Cosmos and the THIRD Heaven of 2Co 12:2. Your False implication that I have added to Scripture is soundly REFUTED. Try again?

One word for you nucleosynthesis. Look it up.

What your saying is NOT physically possible and you have left out the formation of the actual elements and you have even interpreted Genesis wrong. There is nothing in the bible about multiverses you added that with YOUR interpretation.

 

[shawn001]

Dear leib, I added the numbers one to four in order to REFUTE your False ideas;

1. You are confused because you don't know that Adam's Earth was made on the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos. Gen 2:4 Nor do you know that Adam's Earth was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. Isiah 24:19 All you have is your personal opinion. Therefore, your rant is refuted by the best and only information available from God.

2. Genesis teaches that we live in a Multverse composed of 3 other Universes. Today's physicists agree and string theory shows that there could be some 11 Universes within our Multiverse. Michio Kaku from 2008, tells us that LISA Pathfinder can or cannot confirm that we live in a Multiverse. This is important since the ESA is scheduled to launch the Satellites in 2015. It measures gravitational waves from the beginning of our world.

3. Jesus is the Light of the First Day. He is the only God ever formed physically and the ONLY God who will EVER be formed physically. Isa 43:10 Jesus is ALSO the Light of New Jerusalem in Heaven. Rev 21:23 You should actually read and try to comprehend what is written. This might avoid future embarrassment when you must stand before a Being BRIGHTER than the Noonday Sun to be Judged for the deeds done in the Flesh..

4. It is obvious that you didn't see the end of the Video which tells you WHY it's important to measure the gravitational waves since IF they don't match what we know it's because of gravitational waves from BEYOND our Universe.

As you should be able to see, I support what I write with the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science and History so the False Accusation that I use circular reasoning is refuted. I prefer to show this agreement but sometimes the Godless men of this world haven't gotten around to discovering what God told us in Genesis YET. I've also noticed that Godless scientists can ONLY support their False Theories with the agreement of another Godless scientist who worships at the same Altar of Godless Evolutionism, which is the biggest Satanic Lie ever forced upon our little children in the Public Schools.

"You are confused because you don't know that Adam's Earth was made on the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos."

Your very confused and what your saying is made up by you.


Big Bang Conditions Created in Lab


7 trillion degrees Fahrenheit (4 trillion degrees Celsius).

These scorching conditions are enough to melt the protons and neutrons into their constituent parts — namely fundamental particles called quarks and gluons.

This soup of quarks and gluons is thought to have filled the universe a few microseconds after the Big Bang that may have created it about 13.7 billion years ago. After that point, the matter would have cooled and condensed to form the protons and neutrons that make up the matter we see today.

Big Bang Conditions Created in Lab

 

[leibowde84]

Dear leib, I added the numbers one to four in order to REFUTE your False ideas;

1. You are confused because you don't know that Adam's Earth was made on the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos. Gen 2:4 Nor do you know that Adam's Earth was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. Isiah 24:19 All you have is your personal opinion. Therefore, your rant is refuted by the best and only information available from God.

2. Genesis teaches that we live in a Multverse composed of 3 other Universes. Today's physicists agree and string theory shows that there could be some 11 Universes within our Multiverse. Michio Kaku from 2008, tells us that LISA Pathfinder can or cannot confirm that we live in a Multiverse. This is important since the ESA is scheduled to launch the Satellites in 2015. It measures gravitational waves from the beginning of our world.

3. Jesus is the Light of the First Day. He is the only God ever formed physically and the ONLY God who will EVER be formed physically. Isa 43:10 Jesus is ALSO the Light of New Jerusalem in Heaven. Rev 21:23 You should actually read and try to comprehend what is written. This might avoid future embarrassment when you must stand before a Being BRIGHTER than the Noonday Sun to be Judged for the deeds done in the Flesh..

4. It is obvious that you didn't see the end of the Video which tells you WHY it's important to measure the gravitational waves since IF they don't match what we know it's because of gravitational waves from BEYOND our Universe.

As you should be able to see, I support what I write with the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science and History so the False Accusation that I use circular reasoning is refuted. I prefer to show this agreement but sometimes the Godless men of this world haven't gotten around to discovering what God told us in Genesis YET. I've also noticed that Godless scientists can ONLY support their False Theories with the agreement of another Godless scientist who worships at the same Altar of Godless Evolutionism, which is the biggest Satanic Lie ever forced upon our little children in the Public Schools.

Can you provide a link to information linking LISA to the idea of a multiverse?

 

[leibowde84]

Dear leib, I added the numbers one to four in order to REFUTE your False ideas;

1. You are confused because you don't know that Adam's Earth was made on the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos. Gen 2:4 Nor do you know that Adam's Earth was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. Isiah 24:19 All you have is your personal opinion. Therefore, your rant is refuted by the best and only information available from God.

2. Genesis teaches that we live in a Multverse composed of 3 other Universes. Today's physicists agree and string theory shows that there could be some 11 Universes within our Multiverse. Michio Kaku from 2008, tells us that LISA Pathfinder can or cannot confirm that we live in a Multiverse. This is important since the ESA is scheduled to launch the Satellites in 2015. It measures gravitational waves from the beginning of our world.

3. Jesus is the Light of the First Day. He is the only God ever formed physically and the ONLY God who will EVER be formed physically. Isa 43:10 Jesus is ALSO the Light of New Jerusalem in Heaven. Rev 21:23 You should actually read and try to comprehend what is written. This might avoid future embarrassment when you must stand before a Being BRIGHTER than the Noonday Sun to be Judged for the deeds done in the Flesh..

4. It is obvious that you didn't see the end of the Video which tells you WHY it's important to measure the gravitational waves since IF they don't match what we know it's because of gravitational waves from BEYOND our Universe.

As you should be able to see, I support what I write with the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science and History so the False Accusation that I use circular reasoning is refuted. I prefer to show this agreement but sometimes the Godless men of this world haven't gotten around to discovering what God told us in Genesis YET. I've also noticed that Godless scientists can ONLY support their False Theories with the agreement of another Godless scientist who worships at the same Altar of Godless Evolutionism, which is the biggest Satanic Lie ever forced upon our little children in the Public Schools.

Btw, I've read the Bible, being a Catholic myself (although, now I guess I'm nondenominational), but it doesn't provide any kind of scientific evidence, as it cannot be substantiated. All we know for sure about the Bible when it comes to fact is that it was written by men thousands of years ago that did not have any concept of science or the physical world. Because of this, supernatural explanations were widely accepted. But, now, since we have the scientific method, the Bible cannot be "leaned" on so heavily.

Do you have any basis for believing that the Bible is accurate beyond what the Bible, itself, says?

 

[Ben West]

What was that old expression about arguing with an idiot......?????
Geeeeeeeeessssssssuuuuuuuueeeeeeese !!!
~
'mud

Dear mud, IF you are as old as your picture shows, you had better repent for your time is near. What will you say IF you wake up to your Judgment?