Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor of Apes

[Ben West]

So, am I correct in assuming that you do not know how L.I.S.A. will be able to prove the multiverse theory? I've read a lot about it, and I see this quoted, but no one provides reasoning for why this would be proof of 3 universes instead of a multitude. In other words, where do you get that L.I.S.A. would prove that there are 3 instead of another number that would disprove your hypothesis.

Dear leib, I seek to find AGREEMENT between Scripture Science and History. Gen 1:6-8 tell us the first Heaven or boundary of the firmament was made on the SECOND Day. Gen 2:4 tells us of additional HeavenS (plural) which were made on the THIRD Day. God tells us of the THIRD Heaven in 2 Corinthians 12 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version) This means we live Today on the Second Heaven or Universe within the Multiverse.

ll Peter 3:3-7 tells us of the argument between the Scoffers/Evols of the last days of our Earth and Christians. The Scoffers at the end of time will NOT believe that Adam's world was clean dissolved in the Flood Isa 24:19 nor that our Cosmos will be burned. What do you think? Do you believe God or the world's knowledge?

 

[Ben West]

"Dear shawn, Sorry, but there were two other Days/Ages BEFORE the Big Bang of our Cosmos."

Its like you want to learn about cosmology and astronomy, following some parts of the science and then twisting them, but have it all wrong because your making it fit Genesis using your interpretations. Once again the Earth could not have formed, one before the universe, two before atoms, 3 before the first stars and nucleosynthesis and then our sun and we know quite a bit about how our solar system formed. In fact we know the Earth is made from recycled material, from one star a supernova, not the sun and probably from two supernovas.

"and the First Stars of our Cosmos didn't put forth Light until the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 which was some 380c to a Billion years AFTER the Big Bang, depending on which scientist you believe. "

Almost entirely wrong, the only thing you have somewhat right is the first stars at 380 thousand years after the bang. There was a process called Recombination.

The gravity waves experiment did not find the waves. It would have given more support to the inflation theory and possibly multiverses. The CMB might give support to multiverses, but hasn't yet.

Dear shawn, Catch up. It's one of the reasons for L.I.S.A. pathfinder's launch which is scheduled for this year.

 

[Ben West]

So you ignored all of the specific definitions at that site, and just used the ones that had the word "kind" in them? That's a bit dishonest, IMHO.

The first definition which actually appears there is, "biology: a group of animals or plants that are similar and can produce young animals or plants : a group of related animals or plants that is smaller than a genus".



I guess you utterly failed to notice that the definition of the word "kind" completely lacks the specificity of the word "species". So no, there's actually a huge difference between the very specific meaning of the word "species" and the far more general word "kind".

For example, in the Bible, bats are a kind of bird (Leviticus 11:13-19). That's because they both have wings and fly, so with the loose terminology of "kind" that's acceptable. However, with the more precise terminology of "species", they are very clearly not birds.

Even Answers in Genesis, that bastion of anti-science creationist rhetoric, agrees that "kind" and "species" don't mean the same thing (for example here).

So, no, "kinds" and "species" don't mean the same thing at all.



Congratulations, you accept the fact of evolution. Because that's all the fact of evolution is.



Yup, this is pretty much the inevitable result of accepting the fact of evolution. Given enough generations, differences will accumulate, thus, by definition, new species will slowly emerge.



Uh... Have you read the Bible?

God creates the heavens and the Earth first (though somehow the Earth is "formless and empty", yet God manages to hover over its waters anyways). It's only after that when God says, "Let there be light." Somehow God separates this light into day and night on day 1, but He doesn't get around to creating the Sun until day 4.

How can the Earth be "formless and empty" yet have water? How can you have day and night without the Sun? How can you have light without a light source? How can you "separate light from the darkness"?

If you really think about it, this all makes no sense.



Yeah, and sometimes God is surrounded by darkness:

"Then Solomon said, 'The LORD has said that He would dwell in a dark cloud;'" - 1 Kings 8:12 and 2 Chronicles 6:1

"The LORD reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice. Clouds and thick darkness surround Him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne." - Psalm 97:2

"In my distress I called to the LORD; I cried to my God for help. From his temple He heard my voice; my cry came before him, into his ears. The earth trembled and quaked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; they trembled because he was angry. Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from His mouth, burning coals blazed out of it. He parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under His feet. He mounted the cherubim and flew; He soared on the wings of the wind. He made darkness his covering, His canopy around him-- the dark rain clouds of the sky." - Psalm 18:6-11

(There's a version of God you don't see depicted very often! Sounds a lot like Zeus.)



This is incorrect. Evening, specifically after sunset and three stars are visible, was the start of the new day in the Hebrew tradition. So evening was both the end and the beginning of the day according to the people who wrote Genesis. (source)



But that's not what Genesis actually says. It says, that in the beginning "darkness was over the waters of the deep", which is exactly where God was "hovering" at that time (Genesis 1:2). Light only came into existence in Genesis after God creates it. If God is the light, then it makes no sense that God would have to create the light, nor that God could be exactly where the darkness was. Heck, that passage is just more support for the "God dwells in darkness" argument.

Furthermore, Genesis 1:14-19 specifically says that the Sun, Moon, and stars were created on day 4 to give light to the Earth. So Genesis 1 specifically says what the lights are on day 4, and I see not a single suggestion that God is the light referred to there.

It looks like you're making things up which the Bible doesn't actually say, and in fact, the Bible suggests the opposite.

Dear Readers, Here is the chronology of the 7 Days or Ages of Creation of the THIRD Heaven:.

Before the first Day, God created air and ground without form and darkness/death was upon everything He had made, so God said: Let there be Light. Gen 1:1-2

Day 1- Jesus came forth into the physical world to defeat the death which was upon everything God had made. His Image is brighter than the Noonday Sun. Gen 1:3

Day 2- Jesus made a firmament or boundary of Adam's world and placed it in the midst or middle of the Water, and God called it "heaven". Gen 1:6-8

Day 3- Jesus made Adam's Earth and another two HeavenS, but before He made the plants, He made man of the dust of the ground. Gen 2:4-7

Day 4- The first Stars of our 2nd Heaven put forth their light into our Cosmos, which began as the Big Bang, on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4

Day 5- Every living creature that moves was created and brought forth from the water by the TRINITY, on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21

Day 6- Jesus makes the beasts of the field and birds, Adam names them, and then Jesus makes Eve. Adam sins and is cast from the Garden. A&E have two sons and Cain kills Abel. Then God speaks AGAIN. Let US make man in OUR Image. Gen 1:26 and Gen 5:1-2 Adam and Eve were BOTH "created in God's Image" or In Christ. They were born again Spiritually, just as ALL of mankind MUST be born again in order to inherit the Third Heaven, the object of the 6 Creative Days.

This brings us up to the present TIME, today, 2014 for God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image or in Christ, TODAY.

The end of the present 6th Day is in the Future because the events of Gen 1:28-31 are Prophecy of things which will not happen until AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth at the end of the present 6th Day. Isaiah 11 tells us that AFTER Jesus returns the Lion will eat Straw like the Ox. Isa 11:7 Has everyone heard that the Lion will lay down by the Lamb when Jesus returns? Now, you know that it will happen TODAY, on the present 6th Age. The 7th Day or God's rest is FUTURE. Heb 4:9

The above is what Genesis is actually teaching about the Creation of the Third Heaven where ALL Christians will live forever on the 7th Day, because the 7th Day is Eternity and has NO end and NO evening.. Comments? God Bless you.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Dear Leib, All I have is an old Video from 2008 by Michio Kaku and it's some 10 minutes into the Video when he links L.I.S.A. to confirming or refuting that we live in a Multiverse.Parallel universes. [VIDEO]

I have posted this for many years online and it's just about to be confirmed by Science, Last March, another scientist confirmed the gravitational waves are indeed in our Universe. Now, it time for L.I.S.A. to confirm what is written in Gen 1:6-8 and Gen 2:4 which shows that God make at least 3 HeavenS, two on the 3rd Day and one on the 2nd Day. God Bless you

Watch this video from about 6:00-7:30. If you hear Kaku talking about the H.G. Wells' Invisible Man, then you're in the right place.

The idea is that gravity from another Universe within the Multiverse would seep across the "great divide" and be detectable in our Universe. He references the detection of dark matter and discoveries of great swaths of is thanks to Hubble. Towards the end there is a little snippet about Black Holes and where the matter that's sucked into them goes. White holes, theory says, ejects matter instead of swallowing it up. Kaku explains this event as possible being the genesis (pardon the pun) of other universes...

The vast majority of this talk was not about LISA at all, but merely explained LISA as a possible tool to helping scientists find seeping gravity.

My question to you, Aman, is if/when these multiverse evidences are discovered, are you going to remain steadfast in the concept that there are only 3 - when, in fact, there would possibly be an infinite number of parallel universes? Are you going to be stuck on the number 3 if 150,000 are discovered? Are you going to be stuck on the number 3 if there is no evidence whatsoever of seeping gravity? Are you going to be able to explain you understanding of the multiverse theory, or refer to nearly technologically ancient internet videos?

Also, what's being launched this year is not a full LISA study - that isn't slated to happen until 2038. The 2015 mission a proof of concept dry-run, and little more.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Dear leib, I seek to find AGREEMENT between Scripture Science and History. Gen 1:6-8 tell us the first Heaven or boundary of the firmament was made on the SECOND Day. Gen 2:4 tells us of additional HeavenS (plural) which were made on the THIRD Day. God tells us of the THIRD Heaven in 2 Corinthians 12 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version) This means we live Today on the Second Heaven or Universe within the Multiverse.

ll Peter 3:3-7 tells us of the argument between the Scoffers/Evols of the last days of our Earth and Christians. The Scoffers at the end of time will NOT believe that Adam's world was clean dissolved in the Flood Isa 24:19 nor that our Cosmos will be burned. What do you think? Do you believe God or the world's knowledge?

If you're going to be so invested in trying to reconcile science and your religious interpretation, surely you admit that the "END OF TIMES", based on a cosmic model is, like, a gazillion years from now.

 

[HiEv]

I think it was Jonathon Swort who said that you can't reason a man out of a position he was not reasoned into in the first place.

I was originally a Christian myself, a position I wasn't reasoned into, I was merely brought up being told it was true. However, after listening to Creationist rhetoric, the more reasonable scientific information, reading the Bible, and considering the issue myself, I managed to be reasoned out of believing that any gods likely exist.

Now, I admit, I used to like that particular phrase myself. However, upon further consideration, I really do think it does people disservice to assume that people who believe things for no good reason will never hear reason. Some people are open to reasonable arguments.

 

[HiEv]

Dear Readers, Here is the chronology of the 7 Days or Ages of Creation of the THIRD Heaven:.

Before the first Day, God created air and ground without form and darkness/death was upon everything He had made, so God said: Let there be Light. Gen 1:1-2

The Bible doesn't say "death", so you're just inserting your own interpretation there.

There was nothing alive at that point, so there couldn't be any death at that point either.

Day 1- Jesus came forth into the physical world to defeat the death which was upon everything God had made. His Image is brighter than the Noonday Sun. Gen 1:3

Again, the Bible doesn't say "Jesus" or claim that he came int physical form then.

And again, nothing was alive at that point, so there was no "death" to defeat.

Comments?

The rest of what you said seemed to all be the same errors over and over. You making up your own interpretations which are not in the Bible at all, which make no sense, and which have no verifiable support whatsoever.

Why should we believe anything you say? Where is the objective and verifiable evidence which supports your claim and only your claim?

With out that kind of evidence you're just pissing into the wind.

 

[HiEv]

I believe DNA works on mutations.

I don't know what you mean by this.

DNA doesn't "work on" mutations. Mutations happen within DNA.

That is not exactly equivalent to evolution.

Mutations can be a starting point for the evolution of a particular trait spreading throughout a species, however it's merely the first step in a long series of steps over many generations before that trait becomes common.

The natural selection part probably applies since any mutation that produces a malfunction would eliminate the product of the mutation.

Most likely, unless the malfunction only appears after a few offspring are produced. This is why there is no way to select against presbyopia (the hardening of the lenses in our eyes which makes it harder to see small/nearby objects which usually happens after age 40 or so), which usually occurs after most people have had their children.

Also, if the mutation happens to be positive, then natural selection will make it more likely to become common within a population.

Neutral mutations may or may not spread, but over time, these neutral mutations may further mutate into something which may or may not help those who have it. One shouldn't discount the role of neutral mutations.

In any case, the fact that there will be changes in the frequency of that mutation within a population over generations is what is called the fact of evolution.

 

[Bunyip]

hey Bunyip,
Jonathon Swort ?
WHO........????
Cute phrase though.
~
'mud

Put it down to the dangers of a touch screen and fat fingers.

 

[Ben West]

Watch this video from about 6:00-7:30. If you hear Kaku talking about the H.G. Wells' Invisible Man, then you're in the right place.

The idea is that gravity from another Universe within the Multiverse would seep across the "great divide" and be detectable in our Universe. He references the detection of dark matter and discoveries of great swaths of is thanks to Hubble. Towards the end there is a little snippet about Black Holes and where the matter that's sucked into them goes. White holes, theory says, ejects matter instead of swallowing it up. Kaku explains this event as possible being the genesis (pardon the pun) of other universes...

The vast majority of this talk was not about LISA at all, but merely explained LISA as a possible tool to helping scientists find seeping gravity.

My question to you, Aman, is if/when these multiverse evidences are discovered, are you going to remain steadfast in the concept that there are only 3 - when, in fact, there would possibly be an infinite number of parallel universes? Are you going to be stuck on the number 3 if 150,000 are discovered? Are you going to be stuck on the number 3 if there is no evidence whatsoever of seeping gravity? Are you going to be able to explain you understanding of the multiverse theory, or refer to nearly technologically ancient internet videos?

Also, what's being launched this year is not a full LISA study - that isn't slated to happen until 2038. The 2015 mission a proof of concept dry-run, and little more.

Dear jonathan, Genesis 2:4 tells us of other "HeavenS" which were made on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos. The first Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 The plural of heaven means that God made AT LEAST three Heavens made by the 3rd Day but Jesus tells us that God has many mansions. Do you think some of them could be located on other HeavenS beyond the three mentioned? Of course they could. We will ask Jesus when He returns. God Bless you

 

[Ben West]

If you're going to be so invested in trying to reconcile science and your religious interpretation, surely you admit that the "END OF TIMES", based on a cosmic model is, like, a gazillion years from now.

Dear jonathan, Not so, since the end of our Earth will happen TODAY, on the present 6th Creative Day. Don't worry though since it won't happen until AFTER Jesus rules and reigns on this Earth for a thousand years. EVERY human lives and dies on the present 6th Day, including Adam and Eve.

 

[Ben West]

(1) The Bible doesn't say "death", so you're just inserting your own interpretation there.
There was nothing alive at that point, so there couldn't be any death at that point either.

(2) Again, the Bible doesn't say "Jesus" or claim that he came int physical form then.

And again, nothing was alive at that point, so there was no "death" to defeat.

(3) The rest of what you said seemed to all be the same errors over and over. You making up your own interpretations which are not in the Bible at all, which make no sense, and which have no verifiable support whatsoever.

(4) Why should we believe anything you say? Where is the objective and verifiable evidence which supports your claim and only your claim?

With out that kind of evidence you're just pissing into the wind.

Dear HiEv, (1) Don't you love it when someone tells you what the word choshek means? Choshek is the Hebrew word for darkness and one of its meanings is death. The Holy Spirit speaking in Job tells us:

Job 10:21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;

2. John 1:3 tells us of Jesus:

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.

With your misunderstanding, Who was the Light of the first Day?

3. I am happy to show you the AGREEMENT of Scripture, science, and history. All you have to do is ask but remember that I cannot show you the Science when the bumpkins haven't discovered what God told us in Genesis...YET. Believe it or NOT, they don't even know what happened BEFORE the Big Bang. LOL

4. Here is the empirical Historic evidence which shows that Humans arrived on our Earth only 10k years ago and began farming. Here is the record they left just out of the mountains of Ararat, in Northern Mesopotamia, the Cradle of Human civilization, in total agreement with God's Holy Word. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE Do YOU have ANY evidence of when you THINK Humans evolved from some old dumb Ape? Of course NOT. I can understand why you will probably leave now, but thanks for your views. God Bless you

 

[jonathan180iq]

Dear jonathan, Genesis 2:4 tells us of other "HeavenS" which were made on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos. The first Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 The plural of heaven means that God made AT LEAST three Heavens made by the 3rd Day but Jesus tells us that God has many mansions. Do you think some of them could be located on other HeavenS beyond the three mentioned? Of course they could. We will ask Jesus when He returns. God Bless you

That's great, but why not address what I actually wrote?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

That's great, but why not address what I actually wrote?

He won't.

His debate style is to repeat his point until you stop bothering.

 

[shawn001]

Dear shawn, Catch up. It's one of the reasons for L.I.S.A. pathfinder's launch which is scheduled for this year.

This from the person who things the earth came before atoms formed to make the earth or any stars? Or the elements to form life?

Answer the question what is nucleosynthesis? Don't quote the bible on it, what is it? Its a term. Its not in the bible.

 

[Sonofason]

Please explain this seems to be a new hypothesis? NOT

If I have stated something that is untrue, then by all means show which statement is false by providing some evidence to the contrary.

 

[Sonofason]

"I suggest if you want to learn about evolution, read a book. If there's something about evolution that you're confused about, I'll be happy to explain it to you."

I think I am okay on that one.

As you wish.

"It doesn't seem likely that humans were around with the dinosaurs"

They weren't

Do you have any evidence to support this belief?
Please answer the following two questions:
1. Are you the same species as your father?
2. Which of your ancestors was not the same species as his son or daughter?

How is it then that you can state so emphatically that there were no human ancestors existing alongside the dinosaurs?

"but I personally have not discarded the possibility that human beings were around."

You need too.

I don't see why. Convince me why I should discard my beliefs that no human ancestors existed at the time of the dinosaurs?

"Many dinosaurs went extinct because they stopped reproducing. I think they stopped reproducing because they all died from a catastrophic event."

Dinosaurs who by the way certainly weren't the first, went extinct because the Earth got hit by an asteroid from space 65 million years ago.

Indeed, I certainly consider an asteroid smashing into Earth to be a catastrophic event, and such an event most certainly could have stopped all dinosaurs from reproducing.

There was another large group before them who also went extinct the Pelycosaurs, Archosaurs, Therapsids , when they went extinct it lead to the dinosaurs, when they went extinct it lead to mammals and to us.

That is most interesting and irrelevant.

"I haven't seen sufficient evidence either way to make that determination"

Its called the KT boundry.

And you're saying that the KT boundary has prevented human beings from having ancestors that were existent during the age of dinosaurs? I don't think so.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Its an insult to mankind to say they evolved from monkeys.

 

[Sonofason]

That species change over time is proven by direct observation. I see no point in your game of denial.

The word species as a means of classification is not the same word as the word species that evolves over time. If a species evolves over time, it evolves over all time, and to categorize evolving species according to present or past characteristics and traits using the same word is a flagrant debauchery of human language.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

The word species as a means of classification is not the same word as the word species that evolves over time. If a species evolves over time, it evolves over all time, and to categorize evolving species according to present or past characteristics and traits using the same word is a flagrant debauchery of human language.

Actually it isn't. It is a common misunderstanding of the term "species".

The term species is only able to be used as a general classification of characteristics of any given population at any given time. Did you catch that last part there?

Ways this is useful. It allows us to the determine more or less the genetic charictaristics of a population over time using different samples. Ways it is harmful to those unfamiliar with evolution are as follows;
1) there is no line drawn between species but only differences from the genetic track over long periods of time. Just as there are no specific moments in history where one animal gave birth to another there is no end to one species and into another.

2) People don't understand how things evolve from one thing to another in specialization so they assume that a dog turned into a cat. Rather than a four legged animal many years ago had several different evolutionary paths for different groups that took on new traits that eventually develop to what we have today and will continue to develop into the future.