Humans love better than God

[waitasec]

No. "Whoever has ears, let them hear" is a fairly common ending for a parable in the gospels. It's aimed at the audience, not the characters in the parable. It's a way of asking the audience "Do you get it?".



Nope, that's not what it says, that's just something you're reading into it.

i am very curious as to what your interpretation of those seeds are?

 

[Gloone]

38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil.

My understanding is that weeds can produce a good harvest just as much as a good seed can. There is no such thing as a bad seed unless it causes harm. You eat something that will kill you then you have invested your interests in a bad seed. Weeds can be good. They are only evil to those that don't know how to harvest them.

 

[Quagmire]

i am very curious as to what your interpretation of those seeds are?

To me, the most logical interpretation is that the "seed" is meant to represent the teachings, ie., the words of the teacher.

btw., this is the second time you've asked me for my interpretations of the parables. I notice you haven't commented on any of the answers I gave you for your last request.

 

[waitasec]

No. "Whoever has ears, let them hear" is a fairly common ending for a parable in the gospels. It's aimed at the audience, not the characters in the parable. It's a way of asking the audience "Do you get it?".

exactly...'do you get it?'
if you do, then these words did not fall of deaf ears, therefore you believe...

 

[Gloone]

Example of a weed. Milk thistle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[waitasec]

To me, the most logical interpretation is that the "seed" is meant to represent the teachings, ie., the words of the teacher.

btw., this is the second time you've asked me for my interpretations of the parables. I notice you haven't commented on any of the answers I gave you for your last request.

That wasn't the question either. The question wasn't "do the Gospels suggest that hell exists", the question, again, is why are you interpreting Matthew 13:24-42 to be saying that "believers" are going to heaven, "unbelievers" are going to hell?

In fact, the passage you just cited itself suggests a different interpretation:

"The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous"

Again: it seems to be judging people by their actions, not by what they believe or profess to believe.

i did comment on it...i said sure thats great...meaning i agree...

 

[waitasec]

To me, the most logical interpretation is that the "seed" is meant to represent the teachings, ie., the words of the teacher.

nope...
jesus explains the parable and he supposedly said the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom, not the teachings...
vs 38
38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

 

[waitasec]

Example of a weed. Milk thistle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

tell that to the author of matthew...he wouldn't agree

 

[Gloone]

tell that to the author of matthew...he wouldn't agree

Me and Matthew may have to talk this over during dinner. :biglaugh:I would have him test his life over a weed and see how it effects him.
As a matter of fact, I don't think any of them would have ever learned anything if it wasn't for bad seeds or weeds.

 

[Quagmire]

A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

are we not to understand that those who have ears to hear are the seeds that fell on good soil and those other seeds that fell on shallow ground and thorns represent those who do not have ears to hear? meaning those with faith are going to reap and those without will be wasted away

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”


The Parable of the Weeds Explained

36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

who are the people of the kingdom?

The people living in accordance with "the will of god", ie., (from the Gospels perspective) those living in accordance with the teachings.

the christian jews, the new sect that was forming, because of the historical backdrop i mentioned before.

We don't have any way of knowing what the early, Jewish Christians believed, but it's highly doubtful that they believed they could get to heaven or avoid hell simply by acknowledging Jesus as God, or the Son of God.

It's highly doubtful that they believed He was either, for that matter.

Anyway, it's probably that the parables pre-date the authorship of Matthew. It's quite possible that they were already being handed down via oral tradition, and at least a cpl were borrowed from the writtings of earlier Jewish teachers, like Hillel.

who are of the evil one...

Evil people?

non believers...more specifically, unbelieving jews.
the devil is the one spreading the doubt...

Believers in what exactly? The teachings, or in living in accordance with the principles thereof? God? In the idea that Jesus was the Messiah? Or the idea that he was God?

Remember how this conversation started: you were claiming that Matthew shows that belief in Jesus (as God, presumably) is a requirement for entering heaven or avoiding hell.

jesus said:
A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.

so yes believers go to heaven because they have faith without signs
and unbelievers will go to hell be cause they do not have faith.

That isn't what he said. He said "wicked and adulterous" not "damned to hell".

faith with out works is dead...so if you believe you will show your faith by what you do...
the problem with that is no one needs faith in order to be good...

Why is that a problem? According to the verses I tried to show you, Jesus didn't seem to think it was.

 

[Quagmire]

exactly...'do you get it?'
if you do, then these words did not fall of deaf ears, therefore you believe...

Now you're changing your story:

are we not to understand that those who have ears to hear are the seeds that fell on good soil and those other seeds that fell on shallow ground and thorns represent those who do not have ears to hear?

 

[Quagmire]

i did comment on it...i said sure thats great...meaning i agree...

sure, that's great.

 

[Quagmire]

nope...
jesus explains the parable and he supposedly said the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom, not the teachings...

I see. So if Jesus is the farmer, he was scattering people all over the place, hoping they would grow into...what?.

vs 38
38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

Could you do me a favor and start including the chapter instead of just the verse in your citations please? Makes it a bit easier to look up.

 

[waitasec]

Now you're changing your story:

how is
"these words did not fall of deaf ears, therefore you believe..."
not consistent with
" those who have ears to hear are the seeds that fell on good soil"

 

[Gloone]

INclude the Roman verse of ripping each others eyes out and people that happen to fall upon deaf ears. I really enjoy that one.

 

[Quagmire]

how is
"these words did not fall of deaf ears, therefore you believe..."
not consistent with
" those who have ears to hear are the seeds that fell on good soil"

The inconsistency is in this:

First you claim that "Whoever has ears let them hear" is a reference to the characters in the parable:

are we not to understand that those who have ears to hear are the seeds that fell on good soil and those other seeds that fell on shallow ground and thorns represent those who do not have ears to hear?

Then when I pointed out, no, it's actually directed at the audience you said:

exactly...'do you get it?'
if you do, then these words did not fall of deaf ears, therefore you believe...

If you'll go back and put this in the context of the post where I first brought it up, you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[waitasec]

I see. So if Jesus is the farmer, he was scattering people all over the place, hoping they would grow into...what?.

the gospel of matthew chapter 13:38 has jesus saying the seeds represent the people...
i didn't.

Could you do me a favor and start including the chapter instead of just the verse in your citations please? Makes it a bit easier to look up.

i'm sorry, i thought you knew what passage we were talking about...

 

[Quagmire]

the gospel of matthew chapter 13:38 has jesus saying the seeds represent the people...
i didn't.

Yeah, I went and looked that up. Still doesn't make any sense if you look at it in context of the rest of the parable though (which is the authors own inconsistency).

Even so, it doesn't specifically identify the "people of the Kingdom" as those who believe that Jesus is God, or the only way to God, so the point still stands.

 

[waitasec]

The inconsistency is in this:

First you claim that "Whoever has ears let them hear" is a reference to the characters in the parable:


Then when I pointed out, no, it's actually directed at the audience you said:



If you'll go back and put this in the context of the post where I first brought it up, you'll see what I'm talking about.

oh i see...

i've always understood jesus' parables are ultimately about the listener?

 

[waitasec]

Even so, it doesn't specifically identify the "people of the Kingdom" as those who believe that Jesus is God, or the only way to God, so the point still stands.

of course it doesn't specifically point it out because it's a parable...