Humility Is Not a Virtue

[Shushersbedamned]

how about......as a description of the item in play

humility takes places as you assist in a deed......for the sake of someone not as well off as you are

• That's how a simple minded person recognises what appears to be a humble person. If that humility shines too bright it's something else. But I think most most people don't see the difference. They know it but they can't see it. It think it's for lack of emotional intelligence but that's a theory I'm working on. ...no one has ever agreed to it. In fact if I so muh as allude to that they might be/might have been mistaken I must be absolutely totally completely wrong. ...now if you put it sympathetically... I'm running out of the subject sorry.

 

[Nakosis]

Is that in some dictionary? Cause it doesn't sound right. Being humble isn't the same as having a low self esteem. And I think that a person who does suffer of particularly low self esteem can't be humble. They are just low esteemed.

Like I said, it depends on the context it is used in. It is usually see as a virtue. Something that is an intrinsic part of having a "good" life.

It can also be see as inferior such as finding oneself in humble surroundings.

If someone is promoting their own humility to show themselves as better than you, that I'd see as false humility.

Here's a chart
Distinguishing True Humility from Its Two Extremes:
False Humility and Pride

Living Bulwark

 

[Cary Cook]

Because you can't find one?

Humility - Wikipedia

By that particular part of the Wikipedia definition, humility is virtuous.
But the first thing Wikipedia says is Dictionary definitions accentuate humility as a low self-regard and sense of unworthiness.

Humility by this definition is not a virtue, and the expression of it is often used to facilitate solicitation.

 

[Cary Cook]

Well, I defer back to you because I think your comments are quite right on all fronts.

Further than that, I disagree with the entire premise. In the first place, requesting "better than I deserve" is not an humble request. Anyway, judges decide sentences (and are often constrained by the law) before hearing a convicted person's statement during a sentencing procedure.

Let's talk about the elephant in the room.

Grace is unmerited favor. If you want grace, you want better than what you deserve. The New Testament implies that humans deserve damnation, and can get out of damnation by grace if they "humble themselves" and believe something one would otherwise not believe. I assert that humbling oneself in this manner is not a virtue, and only an unjust judge would require it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Wow. That's a definition I have never seen before. Maybe I should read a book about it. ..however, Wikipedia is always a poor source to post. It's just of poor taste and should only be done when in a hurry or constipated.

Not really true.
Wikipedia is fine for general information, and I included the footnotes on the part I posted.
They're here, for completeness. Please note, the numbering changes, but the first listed is (3) in the original quote, the second is 4.

1. Peterson, Christopher (2004). Character strengths and virtues a handbook and classification. Washington, DC New York: American Psychological Association Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-516701-6.
2. ^ Everett L. Worthington, Jr. (2007). Handbook of Forgiveness. Routledge. p. 157. ISBN 978-1-135-41095-7.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

By that particular part of the Wikipedia definition, humility is virtuous.
But the first thing Wikipedia says is Dictionary definitions accentuate humility as a low self-regard and sense of unworthiness.

Humility by this definition is not a virtue, and the expression of it is often used to facilitate solicitation.

I never argued whether humility is 'virtuous', and generally don't think of things in such binary terms.
I only argued that someone expressing feigned or put on humility is not actually humble.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

In the ancient, pre-Christian world of the Greeks, learned people often followed Aristotle's notion of "humility".

Many of us still do: many ethicists are neo-Aristotelians.

Aristotle saw humility as a virtue, but he did not define "humility" like so many of us do today.

The dictonary defines "humility" as the quality of being humble and "humble" as having or showing a low estimate of ones own importance. There's no real Greek equivalent to "humble": in the Bible, one finds tapeinos but in Classical Greek that means low-born or abject. Humility in the Christian sense would be a vice to Aristotle, who wrote that "the poor-spirited man is one who … deprives himself of such advantages as he deserves" and whom he contrasts with the vain man who claims too much. His ideal is the "great-souled man … who claims and is entitled to claim high consideration".

 

[Cary Cook]

I never argued whether humility is 'virtuous', and generally don't think of things in such binary terms.
I only argued that someone expressing feigned or put on humility is not actually humble.

Sorry. I thought you were disagreeing with me.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Not really true.
Wikipedia is fine for general information, and I included the footnotes on the part I posted.
They're here, for completeness. Please note, the numbering changes, but the first listed is (3) in the original quote, the second is 4.

1. Peterson, Christopher (2004). Character strengths and virtues a handbook and classification. Washington, DC New York: American Psychological Association Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-516701-6.
2. ^ Everett L. Worthington, Jr. (2007). Handbook of Forgiveness. Routledge. p. 157. ISBN 978-1-135-41095-7.

You would have to have read the book and with sources preferably the other person should be able to too on the spot.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You would have to have read the book and with sources preferably the other person should be able to too on the spot.

Rubbish.
Might as well close up the forum then.
Are you actually arguing with the definition as provided? Or do you just think the world has moved to the point where only peer-reviewed scientific arguments are valid for anything, even when dealing with word definitions?

If you're so darn determined to only be interested in expert opinions, I could 'humbly' offer my 2 education degrees up for scrutiny, or the fact that I lectured in English language development at Uni. Would that suffice?

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Rubbish.
Might as well close up the forum then.
Are you actually arguing with the definition as provided? Or do you just think the world has moved to the point where only peer-reviewed scientific arguments are valid for anything, even when dealing with word definitions?

If you're so darn determined to only be interested in expert opinions, I could 'humbly' offer my 2 education degrees up for scrutiny, or the fact that I lectured in English language development at Uni. Would that suffice?

No. I was thaught this in elementary school. It isn't about you. It's about that if hundreds of people in this site, for instance, use unqualifying sources and then create more convo of those the result is misinformation, misconceptions, ignorance and often enough arrogance.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

No. I was thaught this in elementary school. It isn't about you. It's about that if hundreds of people in this site, for instance, use unqualifying sources and then create more convo of those the result is misinformation, misconceptions, ignorance and often enough arrogance.

So...let's simplify it then.
Do you actually have an issue with the definition provided?
Would you think my degrees in education leave me 'unqualified' on the English language?

 

[Shushersbedamned]

So...let's simplify it then.
Do you actually have an issue with the definition provided?
Would you think my degrees in education leave me 'unqualified' on the English language?

No. I don't recall ever following the link or having any interest in that particular matter. Your education in the deeps of the web mean nothing.

 

[Cary Cook]

greed is arrogance.

Incorrect. Greedy people are not necessarily arrogant.
Arrogant people are not necessarily greedy.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Incorrect. Greedy people are not necessarily arrogant.
Arrogant people are not necessarily greedy.

Yes The are

 

[Nous]

Let's talk about the elephant in the room.

Grace is unmerited favor. If you want grace, you want better than what you deserve. The New Testament implies that humans deserve damnation, and can get out of damnation by grace if they "humble themselves" and believe something one would otherwise not believe. I assert that humbling oneself in this manner is not a virtue, and only an unjust judge would require it.

As far as I can discern, there is no "elephant in the room" here--other than perhaps the problem that your thesis about humility not being a virtue simply has no basis in fact.

 

[Deidre]

I think humility is all about a state of the heart. And that state of heart extends to be able to see who is actually humble. But, if we judge others' humility, does that mean we lack it?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly.

Here is the flaw in your premise. Asking with humble language does not show humility.

 

[Cary Cook]

As far as I can discern, there is no "elephant in the room" here--other than perhaps the problem that your thesis about humility not being a virtue simply has no basis in fact.

Fine. Then trash the elephant comment and address the rest.
This thread is just a set up to get to that.