Hungry Venezuelans Hunt Dogs, Cats, Pigeons as Food Runs Out

[Thief]

Here, maybe this can help you: http://www.whatiseconomics.org/economics-101

yeh...yeah.....

have you seen a documentary movie.....Too Big to Fail....

money can be lost
just ask any loser

 

[metis]

yeh...yeah.....

have you seen a documentary movie.....Too Big to Fail....

money can be lost
just ask any loser

Yes, I saw it, and money is gained and lost every working day of the week and it's called "the stock market", which is a by-product of capitalism, not socialism.

 

[Revoltingest]

All disasters? Seriously?

Serious?
No, I'm having fun.

We are looking at a country with mountains of debt, legions of people not properly taken care of, people over worked and under paid, vast gulfs between the rich and the poor, and you want to tell me that a country like Sweden or Norway is an abject failure because their taxes are too high?

Americastan's problems are not due to capitalism, but rather to a wasteful, tax & spend, war hungry, big government.
Those northern rotten fish eating countries are not socialist, they're capitalist (with a better run social welfare system).
Real socialism exists/existed in N Korea, the old PRC, the old USSR, Cuba.

Note:
One cannot just look for countries one really likes, & say, "Hey, these are great....so they must be 'socialist'!".
Socialism is about the people (ie, government), not privately owned companies, owning the means of production.
So disasters like N Korea exemplify it, while Norway is capitalism fueling the kind of society you like.
Don't listen to metis (typical mis-informed elderly Michigander).....gotta get yer labels correct.

 

[Underhill]

Serious?
No, I'm having fun.

Americastan's problems are not due to capitalism, but rather to a wasteful, tax & spend, war hungry, big government.
Those northern rotten fish eating countries are not socialist, they're capitalist (with a better run social welfare system).
Real socialism exists/existed in N Korea, the old PRC, the old USSR, Cuba.

Note:
One cannot just look for countries one really likes, & say, "Hey, these are great....so they must be 'socialist'!".
Socialism is about the people (ie, government), not privately owned companies, owning the means of production.
So disasters like N Korea exemplify it, while Norway is capitalism fueling the kind of society you like.
Don't listen to metis (typical mis-informed elderly Michigander).....gotta get yer labels correct.

Not necessarily. Socialism means the public controls certain industries. But not necessarily production. Sweden has free enterprise and capitalism, but a socialist medical system.

This is why I said it is not a simple matter of socialism versus capitalism. The two can work well together.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not necessarily. Socialism means the public controls certain industries. But not necessarily production. Sweden has free enterprise and capitalism, but a socialist medical system.

I once tried to argue that economic systems often had elements of both,
& that systems would evolve in the direction of (or away from) socialism).
The idea of degrees of socialism wasn't well received at the time.
At least you'd be on my side!

This is why I said it is not a simple matter of socialism versus capitalism. The two can work well together.

Aye, but health care doesn't strike me as really being one of the "means of production".

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Not necessarily. Socialism means the public controls certain industries. But not necessarily production. Sweden has free enterprise and capitalism, but a socialist medical system.

This is why I said it is not a simple matter of socialism versus capitalism. The two can work well together.

Serious?
No, I'm having fun.

Americastan's problems are not due to capitalism, but rather to a wasteful, tax & spend, war hungry, big government.
Those northern rotten fish eating countries are not socialist, they're capitalist (with a better run social welfare system).
Real socialism exists/existed in N Korea, the old PRC, the old USSR, Cuba.

Note:
One cannot just look for countries one really likes, & say, "Hey, these are great....so they must be 'socialist'!".
Socialism is about the people (ie, government), not privately owned companies, owning the means of production.
So disasters like N Korea exemplify it, while Norway is capitalism fueling the kind of society you like.
Don't listen to metis (typical mis-informed elderly Michigander).....gotta get yer labels correct.

The fact that Norway is always held up as a socialist success story says a lot about socialism- even in a mild form

a tiny population supported by vast oil reserves (among highest in word per capita) . I've been a couple of times and the wealth appears to be very well hidden.

And pop-socialism as followed on college campuses in the US, generally goes hand in hand with destroying the oil industry... so I'm not sure how this works,

apparently Norway's oil rigs are just frivolous science experiments, subsidized by all the vast wealth generated by their windmills?

 

[Revoltingest]

The fact that Norway is always held up as a socialist success story says a lot about socialism- even in a mild form

a tiny population supported by vast oil reserves (among highest in word per capita) . I've been a couple of times and the wealth appears to be very well hidden.

And pop-socialism as followed on college campuses in the US, generally goes hand in hand with destroying the oil industry... so I'm not sure how this works,

apparently Norway's oil rigs are just frivolous science experiments, subsidized by all the vast wealth generated by their windmills?

Norway also saves a lot of money by not attacking other countries.

 

[Underhill]

Norway also saves a lot of money by not attacking other countries.

Valid point, we could afford national health care and then some if we spent on our military a comparable amount to what the rest of the world spends.

 

[Underhill]

The fact that Norway is always held up as a socialist success story says a lot about socialism- even in a mild form

a tiny population supported by vast oil reserves (among highest in word per capita) . I've been a couple of times and the wealth appears to be very well hidden.

And pop-socialism as followed on college campuses in the US, generally goes hand in hand with destroying the oil industry... so I'm not sure how this works,

apparently Norway's oil rigs are just frivolous science experiments, subsidized by all the vast wealth generated by their windmills?

I don't agree with the left on oil, coal and a whole host of other things. Oh I think they're all dirty buggers that should be fazed out, but I don't think we are there yet. I think "green" energy is just a nice pipe dream without nuclear.

 

[sun rise]

The problem is not socialism - it's a command economy with price controls. There are many socialist systems that are neither. Wikipedia:

market socialism retains the use of monetary prices, factor markets, and, in some cases, the profit motive with respect to the operation of socially-owned enterprises and the allocation of capital goods between them. Profits generated by these firms would be controlled directly by the workforce of each firm or accrue to society at large in the form of a social dividend

What does not work is a command economy with price controls. And what generally does not work is where the state owns businesses and makes business decisions from a political perspective. This is true of China, Venezuela and other countries.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Norway also saves a lot of money by not attacking other countries.

True, I'm with Trump on this, those countries should pay for the defense they are provided

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I don't agree with the left on oil, coal and a whole host of other things. Oh I think they're all dirty buggers that should be fazed out, but I don't think we are there yet. I think "green" energy is just a nice pipe dream without nuclear.

just a pipe dream would be fine with me, evaporating billions in tax payer subsidies is the[ problem..

I'm with you on nuclear, but I don't see the government adopting it any more, not their style, way too efficient and productive!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The problem is not socialism - it's a command economy with price controls. There are many socialist systems that are neither. Wikipedia:

market socialism retains the use of monetary prices, factor markets, and, in some cases, the profit motive with respect to the operation of socially-owned enterprises and the allocation of capital goods between them. Profits generated by these firms would be controlled directly by the workforce of each firm or accrue to society at large in the form of a social dividend

What does not work is a command economy with price controls. And what generally does not work is where the state owns businesses and makes business decisions from a political perspective. This is true of China, Venezuela and other countries.

Bingo.

 

[Revoltingest]

True, I'm with Trump on this, those countries should pay for the defense they are provided

I don't think Iraq or Afghanistan will ever pay us for 'defending' them.

 

[Underhill]

True, I'm with Trump on this, those countries should pay for the defense they are provided

Trump is dreaming.

I am all for closing at least half the bases we have out there. When you look at the sheer number of bases we have around the planet it is staggering. 800 overseas installations. 662 of which are bases. 170 golf courses. In total the US accounts for 95% of all foreign bases worldwide.

The problem is, all of these bases employ people and have their own economies. Even in places like Okinawa where they complain about our presence, the local economy is largely dependent on us, much like our bases here in the states.

So congress isn't quick to close any bases. Especially when any cuts to the military immediately means you will get shredded in the press as being "anti defense" as though anyone in our government has the goal of gutting our defense. The only time you have any hope of pulling it off is when you have republicans and democrats involved, as we did with the Clinton military cuts. But our government is so divided now that will never happen.

 

[Underhill]

just a pipe dream would be fine with me, evaporating billions in tax payer subsidies is the[ problem..

I'm with you on nuclear, but I don't see the government adopting it any more, not their style, way too efficient and productive!

I like the subsidies. They are a drop in the bucket when it comes to spending and drive innovation.

Nuclear is no panacea. But it's the best of a bunch of bad ideas.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Trump is dreaming.

I am all for closing at least half the bases we have out there. When you look at the sheer number of bases we have around the planet it is staggering. 800 overseas installations. 662 of which are bases. 170 golf courses. In total the US accounts for 95% of all foreign bases worldwide.

The problem is, all of these bases employ people and have their own economies. Even in places like Okinawa where they complain about our presence, the local economy is largely dependent on us, much like our bases here in the states.

So congress isn't quick to close any bases. Especially when any cuts to the military immediately means you will get shredded in the press as being "anti defense" as though anyone in our government has the goal of gutting our defense. The only time you have any hope of pulling it off is when you have republicans and democrats involved, as we did with the Clinton military cuts. But our government is so divided now that will never happen.

well yes, the practicality is a little different than the principle! And imposing trade tariffs as payment isn't great.

Like anything the government runs, it's never going to be efficient, but I think when we whittle away all the superfluous government activities, we are eventually left with the one it was founded for in the first place; defense, keeping the king of England off our backs!!

 

[Underhill]

well yes, the practicality is a little different than the principle! And imposing trade tariffs as payment isn't great.

Like anything the government runs, it's never going to be efficient, but I think when we whittle away all the superfluous government activities, we are eventually left with the one it was founded for in the first place; defense, keeping the king of England off our backs!!

I must disagree about the government and efficiency. Oh, don't get me wrong, they are terrible. But then so is business. Small business can be reasonably efficient, but in any corporate structure I've ever seen, the waste is astronomical. The number of failed or dismissed projects mind blowing. This notion that corporate America is oh so much better is popular rhetoric, but I've seen no actual evidence of it.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I must disagree about the government and efficiency. Oh, don't get me wrong, they are terrible. But then so is business. Small business can be reasonably efficient, but in any corporate structure I've ever seen, the waste is astronomical. The number of failed or dismissed projects mind blowing. This notion that corporate America is oh so much better is popular rhetoric, but I've seen no actual evidence of it.

I agree with you in part there also, large corporations can begin to operate like small governments in terms of inefficiency, corruption, especially when infiltrated by politics themselves, labor unions, government contracts etc.

But the government is always by far the largest and most monopolistic corporation of all is it not? And is inherently run by lawyers and people with no business experience whatsoever, though Trump could make an exception here?
A corporation which can force you to buy it's products by law, has little incentive for efficiency. Hard work is often frowned upon in the public sector, it's a different culture entirely.

where do you get better, friendlier, more efficient service, KFC or the DMV ?!

 

[Thief]

Yes, I saw it, and money is gained and lost every working day of the week and it's called "the stock market", which is a by-product of capitalism, not socialism.

I rather thought the housing fault was generated by greed.....
as well as the crash of the market at the turn of the previous century....

not to mention the struggles of other countries suffering a economic 'class' problem

and I for one knows what happens on the small scale....
when the company says.....to hell with it....our profit margin isn't large enough.....
we could have made 7million but only made 3million.....
we lost 4million.....
shut the doors

and then the workers....like myself.....get to LOSE the house
and the money already spent trying to keep it....
and the credit rating goes to crap....
and the power company ain't happy.....
etc...etc....etc....

losses are VERY real

unless you happen to be the guy that thinks he lost 4mil