I am a Believer, So Mock Away.

[Revoltingest]

I wouldn't tip over other people's tables though.
That's bad manners....even in Revoltingistan.

The OP gal asked for mocking, & I'm the only one to respect her wishes?
A little help here, folks.

 

[Student of X]

But seriously, Jesus taught that when people want to mock you for your beliefs, you should just let them do so. In fact you should thank them and bless them for doing so.

I encourage all believers regardless of what faith they belong to, to do the same.

I assume you're referring to the whole 'turn the other cheek' thing?

"At the time of Jesus, striking someone deemed to be of a lower class with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance.[3] If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma. The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed.[4]"

 

[idea]

I'm a landlord & mechanical engineer, so your question is above my pay grade.
Besides, I know enuf about probablistic systems to never make overly specific predictions.

OK - I'll give you a mechanical engineer/landlord question, what will the next generation of refrigerators look like, how will they work, what will the new refrigerant be, what will their new energy-efficient pump be, how cold will they be able to go and at what cost?

Many ask religious people for overly specific predictions, and yet are unwilling to make them in return...

 

[godlikemadman]

Your religion's so fat, I slapped its *** and rode the wave home!

 

[godlikemadman]

Your religion's so fat, it left the house wearing high heels and came back with flip flops!

 

[godlikemadman]

Your religion's so fat, it got baptized at Sea World!

 

[Revoltingest]

OK - I'll give you a mechanical engineer/landlord question, what will the next generation of refrigerators look like, how will they work, what will the new refrigerant be, what will their new energy-efficient pump be, how cold will they be able to go and at what cost?

Imagine me scratching my head with my jaw slack & drool dripping therefrom.
I have some thoughts about potential advancements, but I don't think they'll make
the next generation. Example: distributed refrigeration & freezing systems around
the kitchen, allowed by thinner & better insulation, with switchable remote heat exchange.
White & stainless steel will remain popular colors.

Many ask religious people for overly specific predictions, and yet are unwilling to make them in return...

That sounds rude to me. What's yer take on it?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I think Jesus said to turn the other cheek, bless those who curse you, love your enemies... but he also overthrew tables at the temple, and stood up for what he believed... I'm all for open communication, but I'll always try to clear up misconceptions (that is if the other person is able to listen.... if they refuse to listen, then silence is a good response I suppose)

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you"

It's just our way, bro. Offer yourself to their mockery.

 

[Revoltingest]

To endure mockery with good cheer & retaliatory wit is a high calling indeed.

 

[idea]

you said:

Your faith involves believing things which do not result in making predictions which are independently & objectively testable.

Everyone's beliefs involve things which do not result in making objective predictions...

White & stainless steel will remain popular colors.

OK - I'm going to hold you to that, and complain loudly when black takes over as the most popular color

 

[Revoltingest]

you said:
Everyone's beliefs involve things which do not result in making objective predictions...

Which of my beliefs is not testable?
(Be careful here.....I don't believe much.)

OK - I'm going to hold you to that, and complain loudly when black takes over as the most popular color

Black will never.......wait......you're tricking me into saying something which may
be taken as racist, thereby derailing my plan to become a Supreme Court Justice!
Fie! Fie! A pox on your mischievous Machiavellian hide!

OK - sorry - the point of religion is not to predict things, but to live in peace/love etc. etc... anyways... just annoying when people say "prove it, predict something!!!", when the proof comes through living it/applying it.... it's missing the whole point, just like my asking "predict the next refrigerator or I won't believe in your mechanical engineering knowledge" is pointless too...

I've been less than clear. I use the word "predict" in a mild & scientific sense.
Example:
When Einstein developed the general theory of relativity, it could be used to predict some things, eg, light from far away stars would bend around
the Sun. This prediction could be tested, & if it failed, would falsify his theory. There are other testable predictions, eg, black holes, time dilation.
Fortunately for Albert, no prediction has been found false.....yet.

 

[idea]

Which of my beliefs is not testable?
(Be careful here.....I don't believe much.)

...the point of religion is not to predict things, but to live in peace/love etc. etc... anyways... just annoying when people say "prove it, predict something!!!", when the proof comes through living it/applying it.... it's missing the whole point, just like my asking "predict the next refrigerator or I won't believe in your mechanical engineering knowledge" is pointless too...

I'll believe you are a good mechanical engineer if you can fix a frig...
and I'll believe you are a good Christian if you can handle your own marriage/family/finances - if you honestly live in peace etc. etc.

hypothesis: mechanical eng works
test: can it fix a frig?
observe: frig being fixed
conclusion: must be true!

hypothesis: Christianity works
test: can it fix a marriage? does it make people happy?
observe: divorce rates / suicide rates / general well-being of participants
conclusion: by their fruits ye shall know them

 

[Student of X]

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you"

It's just our way, bro. Offer yourself to their mockery.

A strategy of mockery is an attempt to gain social dominance. If our collective 'turning the other cheek' response doesn't defy them and present them with a social dilemma in return, then we're doing it wrong.

 

[idea]

Example:
When Einstein developed the general theory of relativity, it could be used to predict some things, eg, light from far away stars would bend around
the Sun. This prediction could be tested, & if it failed, would falsify his theory. There are other testable predictions, eg, black holes, time dilation.
Fortunately for Albert, no prediction has been found false.....yet.

light was bending around the sun, and was observed bending around the sun, long before Einstein put forth his theory to explain it - that's just explaining what was already there, not predicting some novel future event...

yes, and people predicted that Jesus would come, and he came... now people predict that he will come again.... the point is still in the application though, not in the prediction.

 

[Revoltingest]

...the point of religion is not to predict things, but to live in peace/love etc. etc... anyways... just annoying when people say "prove it, predict something!!!", when the proof comes through living it/applying it.... it's missing the whole point, just like my asking "predict the next refrigerator or I won't believe in your mechanical engineering knowledge" is pointless too...

I don't expect religion to predict things.
But the lady asked for mockery, & I delivered.

hypothesis: mechanical eng works
test: can it fix a frig?
observe: frig being fixed
conclusion: must be true!

Wrongo pongo!
It is not "true". Rather, it is useful.
Revoltifarians embrace the scientific method, & believe that all knowledge about the material world is provisional.
New data & better theories may come along, & replace our current understanding. So we don't know things which are "true".
We emphatically reject "truth".

hypothesis: Christianity works
test: can it fix a marriage? does it make people happy?
observe: divorce rates / suicide rates / general well-being of participants
conclusion: by their fruits ye shall know them

I find Xianity to be also useful, but also to not be "true".
However, it is less useful than engineering, which may also deliver happiness (sometimes with marriage),
& brings us refrigerators to store our bacon & keep it fresh. (Xianity is not employed in refrigerator design.)

 

[idea]

A strategy of mockery is an attempt to gain social dominance.

I don't like mockery, of anything. Being flippant, laughing, taking things lightly -

if something evil/wrong is going on, don't make jokes about it / laugh about it - no victim is going to feel better if you make up jokes about their oppressor - making jokes / being flippant does not help anyone, it makes the situation worse, and actually helps those in the wrong to see it all as just a big joke rather than something serious that needs to be dealt with.

I think one of the real issues now is everyone being flippant - not treating one another seriously, not able to have serious / deep / meaningful conversations - they distance themselves from people by just taking light of it all, rather than facing it...

there's a difference between two people who can joke with one another, vs. two people who can talk seriously with one another... it's good to be able to talk seriously with one another.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Your faith wears army boots!
Your faith is so backwards, that it drives an AMC Gremlin!
Your faith burns its bacon!

What about... your faith is so ugly if it was a dog I would shave its butt and teach it to walk backwards.

 

[idea]

Wrongo pongo!
It is not "true". Rather, it is useful.
Revoltifarians embrace the scientific method, & believe that all knowledge about the material world is provisional.
New data & better theories may come along, & replace our current understanding. So we don't know things which are "true".
We emphatically reject "truth".

useful = true.

I seek further light too
(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:9)
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

I find Xianity to be also useful, but also to not be "true".
However, it is less useful than engineering, which may also deliver happiness (sometimes with marriage),
& brings us refrigerators to store our bacon & keep it fresh. (Xianity is not employed in refrigerator design.)

less useful? given the choice between having a working refrigerator, and having a working family - I think everyone would say their family is more important... sure engineering is nice, but the most important things don't come from engineering books...

 

[Revoltingest]

light was bending around the sun, and was observed bending around the sun, long before Einstein put forth his theory to explain it - that's just explaining what was already there, not predicting some novel future event...

Alas, I'd hoped to avoid going into excessive detail, but GR predicted a particular measurable amount of deflection, which led to much
more precise & quantified work by Eddington & others. If the deflection had been different from that predicted by GR, then GR could
be shown false. This is similar to Mercury's precession, which was known to exist beforehand, but GR predicted it with precision.

yes, and people predicted that Jesus would come, and he came... now people predict that he will come again.... the point is still in the application though, not in the prediction.

Since the Bible doesn't predict when he'll arrive, it hasn't failed.
But I won't dwell on this.....it seems unproductive.

 

[Revoltingest]

useful = true.

Not in the philosophy of science.
As G Box said, all theories are wrong, but some are useful.
Example:
Newton's law of gravitation isn't true. ( It was arguably rendered false by GR.)
But it's dang useful in non-relativistic circumstances.

less useful? given the choice between having a working refrigerator, and having a working family - I think everyone would say their family is more important... sure engineering is nice, but the most important things don't come from engineering books...

I'll take both happiness & refrigerators.
And I'm able do so with no faith or belief in gods. Happiness doesn't require religion.
The irony of this discussion is that it wouldn't exist without herds of engineers designing computerators.