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I Am A Christian!

Lady B

noob
Originally Posted by ChristineES
I am a Christian:
Am I supposed to hate certain people?
Am I supposed to agree with slavery?
Am I supposed to believe the earth is flat and only 6,000 years old?
Am I supposed to judge people and tell them they are going to "hell"?
Am I supposed to throw stones at other faiths and such?

And since I do none of those things, does that mean I am a bad Christian?
If this is any standard for qualifying a Good Christian......
May God grant us all the wisdom to be bad so bad, very very bad, the baddest of bad,the baddest of the baddest of the bad :eek:
 

Shermana

Heretic
Am I supposed to hate certain people?
The Epistle of John is quite clear to not allow heathens into your home. There's really no way to interpret it differently, but of what "heathen" means. You either agree or snip it out. Also, in Galatians, Paul said "Let anyone who preaches a doctrine different than me be damned". As for hate itself, you must define what hate means and then ask yourself if some of the most evil people aren't undeserving of what is called "Hate".

Am I supposed to agree with slavery?
Why not? Paul says for Slaves to be obedient to their masters. You are not supposed to let the social opinions of the world affect your beliefs. Why should you let abolitionists tell you what to believe? Slavery goes on today worldwide, you don't see these liberals organizing underground railroads to help them. Many of them have probably paid for services of human trafficking before even.
Am I supposed to believe the earth is flat and only 6,000 years old?
The notion that the Bible says the Earth is flat is a demonstration of people accusing it of such of not having any clue whatsoever about the language involved. The word "Earth" always means "Land". There is no word for "Planet Earth". "Corners of the Earth" does not mean "The Earth is a Square", it is a phrase to mean "Ends of the land". The word 'Land" does not mean "Planet Earth", but it can refer to the known regions of said Earth.

As for believing the Earth is 6000 years old, that is a matter of scientific debate, I say 13,000. But this is not the science vs. religion category. It's basically a matter of whether you believe blindly with Atheist Scientific consensus and don't question their claims such as why the Earth hasn't spiraled into the sun or hit the moon by now for that matter. I say you SHOULD believe it as such if you want to conform to the beliefs of what a "Christian" in the old days would have believed before modern liberalism creeped in. There's nothing particularly scientific about the claims of an old Earth considering the RAW DATA IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC EXAMINATION. So if you believe it's bad for a Christian to believe that scientists are lying and hiding things, enjoy some Aspartame while you're at it. It's totally safe the scientists say. And of course their Raw data isn't available either here.
Am I supposed to judge people and tell them they are going to "hell"?
No. However, judging people is something you should ALWAYS do. If you don't judge people correctly, you could get killed or worse. What you shouldn't do is judge when you shouldn't judge. Jesus did not say "Do not judge", that's been a popular thread topic in the past. What I do believe you CAN do is say "According to the Bible, such a behavior Jesus warns leads to hellfire". But this begins a whole "Saved by grace" and "Saved by works" doctrinal debate, in which the "Saved by grace" belief tries to shuffle around, turning how Jesus clearly said that your bad behavior sends you to hell into something different about just applying to non-believers.

Am I supposed to throw stones at other faiths and such?
"Let anyone who teaches a doctrine different than me be damned". Combined with the fact that you're not supposed to let a heathen into your house even, yes, you are in fact encouraged to disparage other faiths, however, to do so truthfully, reasonably, critically, and not just things like blind Quran burnings. Instead, to be able to rationally argue against the beliefs of those who have critically opposed views.
And since I do none of those things, does that mean I am a bad Christian?
In order to define what a "bad Christian" means, you must first define what being a "Christian" means in the first place, which is another popular thread topic. By the BIBLICAL definition of Christian, virtually everyone who claims to be Christian is in fact a "bad" Christian if by "bad" you mean "one who is not aspiring to do what it says to do and is instead backpedaling or not even trying". That would include me as well.
 
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crocusj

Active Member
I am a Christian:
Am I supposed to hate certain people?
Am I supposed to agree with slavery?
Am I supposed to believe the earth is flat and only 6,000 years old?
Am I supposed to judge people and tell them they are going to "hell"?
Am I supposed to throw stones at other faiths and such?

And since I do none of those things, does that mean I am a bad Christian?
Don't know about you personally but.....two policewomen were killed in UK on Tuesday. Brutal, deliberate slaughter and I don't want to sully their memory with trivia but its not trivia. Both women served their communities with distinction, both were career policewomen who went into all situations unarmed, both did the same job and were killed at the same time for doing that job. Also, both were engaged. Only one of them could get married, however. And only the Christians can explain why only one. I do hope you are a bad Christian.
 

Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
Speaking of slaves... I looked up the word "slave" in the Bible (Biblegateway.com) under the Kings James version of the Bible and only 2 passages popped up. What is the difference between slaves, workers, servants, and employees? I always thought when the Bible mentions something about slaves, it didn't always (literally) mean slaver but employee since the word doesn't exist in the Bible. I always thought God was against "slavery"(e.g. when God helped Moses free the Hebrew slaves) and in the Bible, God always refers to people who fall into the temptation of sin "slaves."

(I usually like your responses Shermana) but I have to disagree with the slavery thing..
Just because slavery exists today doesn't mean it's right..(unless the "slaves" are being compensated in which case, I don't consider it to be "slavery")
Colossians 4:1
Slave owners, be fair and honest with your slaves. Don’t forget that you have a Master in heaven.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Speaking of slaves... I looked up the word "slave" in the Bible (Biblegateway.com) under the Kings James version of the Bible and only 2 passages popped up. What is the difference between slaves, workers, servants, and employees? I always thought when the Bible mentions something about slaves, it didn't always (literally) mean slaver but employee since the word doesn't exist in the Bible. I always thought God was against "slavery"(e.g. when God helped Moses free the Hebrew slaves) and in the Bible, God always refers to people who fall into the temptation of sin "slaves."

(I usually like your responses Shermana) but I have to disagree with the slavery thing..
Just because slavery exists today doesn't mean it's right..(unless the "slaves" are being compensated in which case, I don't consider it to be "slavery")
Colossians 4:1
Slave owners, be fair and honest with your slaves. Don’t forget that you have a Master in heaven.

and beating a slave within an inch of their lives is considered...a fringe benefit?
:facepalm:
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I don't mean to step on any toes here let alone a fellow Christians.....But In all due respect, Paul did in no way contradict Christ in his teachings. Paul was setting up churches the way God wants them. It is true the bible clearly teaches women should not hold a pastoral place of leadership above men. This does not mean women are not or cannot hold a significant place in the church, or that they cannot teach, It means only in the making of a church there shall be a leader of men and this should not be a woman.why? This is not really explained. It is how God intended. Women do have a huge place in churches and we are free to evangelize and minister of course.

Before you attack me look deep inside yourselves,If you were in a burning building and you had the choice between a woman or a man to save you, what would you choose? I would choose a man, not for his strength but for God gave men a special leadership ability, or maybe because he has nothing else in his mind but to save and be a hero. I am not sure the why and what fors, but God is sure.God made woman equal to man ? Yes, but he also assigned us roles , we are nurturers, we are helpmates, we are mothers, we are lovers, we are heroines we are teachers, we are all and more. Men well they are men......God Designed them to be leaders, God made Adam , God saw Adam needed a helpmate, so he made Eve. Did God make Eve to show Adam how it's done? No God made Eve to be a helpmate.to expound on biblical submission, yes woman are to submit to their own husbands,This does not mean we have no voice, It means in the end he should have the final say,I wish we choose our mates well enough we can trust him in this.....Now Look at God's command for the men. Love your wives more then yourself and give your life for her! Wow, what a responsibility really! I prefer my role Thanks God. Can you imagine the burden put on men from God?

Women's rights are all good, I don't wish we go back in time to be considered the lower class. Men throughout history have surely taken advantage of the roles of women and in God's name.God also did not intend this. As Christine pointed out women were not of little mind in the Bible at all, Jesus thought highly of women and at his crucifixion he asked his apostles to take care of his mother.

Women in some countries are not allowed out of house. They have little or no place in society,This is not in any way God's commandments and should be fought for. But his church , He has given us his word in this and we are wise to submit even we know not the reasons. Regardless there are many sects of the Christian church that do not heed the biblical standards and appoint women as pastors, My aunt is a Methodist preacher. That is how they choose to interpret God's word and may God have mercy on them and us all.
IMHO....

But what about Deborah? What about the "woman at the well"? Honestly, if what you say is true then Deborah should not have judged Israel. And what all those other women? I think most Christians rely too much on Paul's teachings-- I have always thought so.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I am a Christian:
Am I supposed to hate certain people?
Am I supposed to agree with slavery?
Am I supposed to believe the earth is flat and only 6,000 years old?
Am I supposed to judge people and tell them they are going to "hell"?
Am I supposed to throw stones at other faiths and such?

And since I do none of those things, does that mean I am a bad Christian?

From the above it sounds like you're a Christian with a persecution complex :)

I mean it light-heartedly. It comes from seeing too many hostile posts.

Don't worry; Be Happy.....and I'm sure you are
 

Shermana

Heretic
Speaking of slaves... I looked up the word "slave" in the Bible (Biblegateway.com) under the Kings James version of the Bible and only 2 passages popped up. What is the difference between slaves, workers, servants, and employees? I always thought when the Bible mentions something about slaves, it didn't always (literally) mean slaver but employee since the word doesn't exist in the Bible. I always thought God was against "slavery"(e.g. when God helped Moses free the Hebrew slaves) and in the Bible, God always refers to people who fall into the temptation of sin "slaves."

(I usually like your responses Shermana) but I have to disagree with the slavery thing..
Just because slavery exists today doesn't mean it's right..(unless the "slaves" are being compensated in which case, I don't consider it to be "slavery")
Colossians 4:1
Slave owners, be fair and honest with your slaves. Don’t forget that you have a Master in heaven.

Employers have a right to beat their employees from an inch of their lives?

Employers put awl picks through the ears of their employees if the employees don't want to leave after a 7 year contract?

I'm assuming you're not familiar with the OT rules about how to treat your "Employee"?

At best, it's a form of indentured servitude, but it can also apply to the "Forced labor" that captured prisoners are supposed to perform as well.

As for whether it's "right", if it was "wrong" then you wouldn't have provisions of how to manage your slaves. It's obviously not a "sin", unless its due to direct kidnapping (which is an executable offense). If it was a "sin" it would say "Thou shalt not have a slave at all" instead of giving rules on how to keep one.
 
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Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
Employers have a right to beat their employees from an inch of their lives?

Employers put awl picks through the ears of their employees if the employees don't want to leave after a 7 year contract?

I'm assuming you're not familiar with the OT rules about how to treat your "Employee"?

At best, it's a form of indentured servitude, but it can also apply to the "Forced labor" that captured prisoners are supposed to perform as well.

As for whether it's "right", if it was "wrong" then you wouldn't have provisions of how to manage your slaves. It's obviously not a "sin", unless its due to direct kidnapping (which is an executable offense). If it was a "sin" it would say "Thou shalt not have a slave at all" instead of giving rules on how to keep one.

Slavery may have been permissible in those days but even if it was, If it was permissible in the way we define "slavery" today, God wouldn't have made provisions on how to treat or manage them and like I said before in certain instances he wouldn't have commanded to set certain people free like Hagar. We (Human beings) have evolved since then and by applying provisions (or stipulations) to servitude, hence the definition of "slave" is different from "employee". How many of us have been employed and said "I'm working like a slave"? (I know I have) but we're not actually slaves..because actual slaves are treated unfairly which God (in the Bible)) warns us about.
 

ron4711

Member
Speaking of slaves... I looked up the word "slave" in the Bible (Biblegateway.com) under the Kings James version of the Bible and only 2 passages popped up. What is the difference between slaves, workers, servants, and employees? I always thought when the Bible mentions something about slaves, it didn't always (literally) mean slaver but employee since the word doesn't exist in the Bible. I always thought God was against "slavery"(e.g. when God helped Moses free the Hebrew slaves) and in the Bible, God always refers to people who fall into the temptation of sin "slaves."

(I usually like your responses Shermana) but I have to disagree with the slavery thing..
Just because slavery exists today doesn't mean it's right..(unless the "slaves" are being compensated in which case, I don't consider it to be "slavery")
Colossians 4:1
Slave owners, be fair and honest with your slaves. Don’t forget that you have a Master in heaven.

KJ uses words like bondage for slavery and bondmaid for female slave and bondmen for male slaves
Check out Leviticus 22:11 in various editions, KJ reffers to slaves as souls
 

Shermana

Heretic
Slavery may have been permissible in those days but even if it was, If it was permissible in the way we define "slavery" today, God wouldn't have made provisions on how to treat or manage them and like I said before in certain instances he wouldn't have commanded to set certain people free like Hagar.
1. Please show where God Himself commands Hagar to be set free.
2. Please show the differences between the Biblically defined instances of slavery, in detail, and "modern slavery", as opposed to "Egyptian Slavery" or "Medieval Turkish slavery".
3. I assume you are retracting that notion that "Biblical slavery = employment".
4. The provisions on how to treat and manage them imply that they are OWNED and MASTERED. An employee may be "managed" but he is not mastered. Even in pre-labor-union union factory conditions, which can be comparable to if not worse than indentured slavery.

We (Human beings) have evolved since then
Physically? Culturally? Slavery is still rampant in Africa, the Middle East, Latin America, and Asia (and Eastern Europe), and its services are well trafficked by Americans and Europeans and Asians and Africans on a very regular basis. Minimum wage in a way is even less pay than 1800s slaves got, which included full rent, full food (and a relatively lot of it too), full medical, and everything else. Minimum wage is possibly even worse than Slavery in that it exchanges "freedom" for less than minimal conditions. In Israelite days, slaves often sold themselves into such. The rules still set them as second class citizens. If you murdered a slave, it was not a death penalty crime necessarily for example. The common idea is that if you have become a slave, you deserve it by wickedness. Regardless, there is no way you can possibly compare an Israelite Indentured Servant, let alone a purchased gentile slave to an employee.

I am assuming you have NOT read the provisions on Biblical slaves since I mentioned this last time, am I correct when I say that you have NOT familiarized yourself with the OT verses about Slavery? If this is the case, please take the time to educate yourself so you can get to the same level before your next reply.

and by applying provisions (or stipulations) to servitude, hence the definition of "slave" is different from "employee".
The very fact that the Israelite slave is bound for 7 years, while gentile slaves are bound forever, proves your notion that "Slave" is not exactly "Employee". Seriously, I challenge you to find a SINGLE commentary that says that a Biblical slave was not much different than a modern employee. In terms of wages and purchasing parity, the Slave probably had it much better than a Minimum wage Fast food worker. Nonetheless, one can extract a similar message that Paul is quoting on an Employee-Employer relationship. But that however was not the point of this particular contention.
How many of us have been employed and said "I'm working like a slave"? (I know I have) but we're not actually slaves..because actual slaves are treated unfairly which God (in the Bible)) warns us about.
Ultimately you're trying to make the Bible say something it doesn't say by applying modernistic notions to an ancient cultural concept. No dice. Now if you want to say that Managers should treat employees with kindness and for employees to shut up and obey complacently in the example that Paul sets forth with masters and slaves, that's one thing. But to redefine the Bible to say that it didn't condone slavery or that it would condemn it today necessarily is completely out of left field, in liberal apologetics land.
 
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Me Myself

Back to my username
No. However, judging people is something you should ALWAYS do. If you don't judge people correctly, you could get killed or worse. What you shouldn't do is judge when you shouldn't judge. Jesus did not say "Do not judge", that's been a popular thread topic in the past. What I do believe you CAN do is say "According to the Bible, such a behavior Jesus warns leads to hellfire". But this begins a whole "Saved by grace" and "Saved by works" doctrinal debate, in which the "Saved by grace" belief tries to shuffle around, turning how Jesus clearly said that your bad behavior sends you to hell into something different about just applying to non-believers.

She cannot do this because she is a woman. At least according to a literalist reading of the bible. Paul was straightforward: women cannot teach or be in a position of authority over men. So she could not teach this "spiritual truth" to men. After all, and the way Paul puts it "Adam was made first, and it was Eve who was deceived by the serpent"
 

uu_sage

Active Member
Doing and adhering to the beliefs you just listed makes you a bad Christian. Loving, accepting, forgiving and serving like Jesus did makes you a good Christian.
I am a Christian:
Am I supposed to hate certain people?
Am I supposed to agree with slavery?
Am I supposed to believe the earth is flat and only 6,000 years old?
Am I supposed to judge people and tell them they are going to "hell"?
Am I supposed to throw stones at other faiths and such?

And since I do none of those things, does that mean I am a bad Christian?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
one wonders why you would insert your definition of a christian...are you comparing yourself?

if you hate sin, how can you not judge?

if christians are here to serve, then why are they voting against the inalienable rights of others?

if god is the only judge then what are you doing?

no one needs to know jesus to know they are bad or good

how can a christian stand for the truth of god, and misinterprets the bible?

No. I simply believe this is what the scripture is telling us. My purpose was to give Christine a guideline to measure her Christianity.

I do judge. It is an authority given to me just as we give court justices authority to judge.

We don't consider sin an inalienable right.

I am doing what God gives me authority to do.

We are discussing that on a different thread.

If a person misinterprets the Bible then it isn't the truth of God. I can stand for the truth of God because I don't misinterpret the Bible.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Matthew 7:4
How can you say, “My friend, let me take the speck out of your eye,” when you don’t see the log in your own eye?

Luke 6:37
[ Judging Others ] Jesus said: Don’t judge others, and God won’t judge you. Don’t be hard on others, and God won’t be hard on you. Forgive others, and God will forgive you.

Matthew 12:33
[ A Tree and Its Fruit ] A good tree produces only good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. You can tell what a tree is like by the fruit it produces.

The Messiah (Yeshua or Jesus) taught that we should always give poeple the benefit of the doubt.
We should never judge others no matter what (Race, Religion, etc.) they are.
Remember that when you point the (index) finger at someone else you'll have three others pointing back (try it out). Everyone has some sort of pride and no one likes to be judged or treated unfairly.
However, we can determine by a persons ways and actions, how we want to deal with that person keeping in mind that patience is a virtue and everyone deserves common courtesy and respect. All of us are Human and poop in a toilet (even if its a golden toilet). There is only ONE who is perfect and even He is the most humble and merciful.

This is a misinterpretation of scripture.

That is not a problem since my eye is clear. It matters not that I judge. People try to judge me anyway.

Pride goes before a fall. I don't mind scrutiny because Jesus in me does not sin. No-one should judge unfairly and God takes exception to those who do.

I don't respect poop and I don't respect sin.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I guess so, Christine. May I have the privilege of being a bad Christian along with you?

Are you trying to say that you prefer being bad over being good. I would suggest that you wouldn't even qualify as a Jew, Muslim or Hindu on that basis.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
I hope you see this. Not only are you a christian but.you are very christ like
thank you for your love compassion and positivity
 
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