I am a non-believer and have some questions

[1robin]

I did post evidence there. But it was not in regards to whether God exists or not. It was instead in regards to my position on how the moral nature of God is not all just, all loving, and righteous. I have been making these types of arguments against God's moral nature, but have not posted actual evidence to support that. But in that post, there is actual evidence to support that. I will repeat that evidence here again:

We have clear evidence that we have authority on the application of the English language in our daily lives. We have learned words and talk as we get older and, over time, we have clear knowledge of the English language. We are able to apply it correctly and there is no mistaking this. Therefore, morality is no different. We also learn what is right and wrong over time and, just like learning how to speak English, we also are able to apply the concept of morality correctly in our daily lives.

We clearly know that it is wrong to harm our brother/sister or an innocent living thing. We also know how the moral standard of the Christian God is horrible. I have clearly learned what is right and wrong and, therefore, I know that the moral standard of the Christian God is wrong. My application of my moral judgments to the Christian God's morals is undeniably correct just as how my application of my English language to my daily life is undeniably correct. I have authority of what is right and what is wrong just as how I have authority of my English language.

It seems no matter how hard I try you are never going to actually post actual evidence (not good evidence or even bad evidence). I am not even sure you understand what evidence is. Every thing you have mentioned above, and in the thread on the whole, has been simple declarative statements. No arguments, no evidence, just yelling at traffic.

Sorry, but I have given you way more chances to post evidence and rational argumentation than you deserved. That was your last shot and you failed.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

It seems no matter how hard I try you are never going to actually post actual evidence (not good evidence or even bad evidence). I am not even sure you understand what evidence is. Every thing you have mentioned above, and in the thread on the whole, has been simple declarative statements. No arguments, no evidence, just yelling at traffic.

Sorry, but I have given you way more chances to post evidence and rational argumentation that you deserved. That was your last shot and you failed.

I thought that was rock solid evidence though I explained to you. If we use an English word or sentence such as "Go to the store" and the person goes to the store, then that is clear rock solid evidence right there that you are using the English language properly. It is no different than the clear evidence we see all around us. If you see a tree in your yard, then that is clear evidence of that tree being there.

The English language is no different and morality is no different either. There is clear rock solid evidence that my application of my English language is correct just as how my application of my moral judgments are correct. There is rock solid evidence for both. Therefore, my moral judgments of the nature of God being immoral and unrighteous is obviously correct since I am applying my moral judgments correctly no different than how I apply my English language correctly.

 

[SkepticX]

Sorry,what is LDS?

Latter Day Saint -- Mormon.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Latter Day Saint -- Mormon.

Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick Zome rippick

 

[natasha levchenko]

Latter Day Saint -- Mormon.

thank you.now I understand

 

[Janet Waters]

Sorry,what is LDS?

A Latter-Day Saint----from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Nicknamed the "Mormons."

 

[Muffled]

It is yourself that you condemn.
You have no power to do anything else.
Nor does your God have any power to do so.
Have a nice day.

I believe you have vastly underestimated God.

 

[Muffled]

What do we need to be saved from?

I believe we need to be saved from sin.

 

[allfoak]

I believe you have vastly underestimated God.

Not your weak little God i haven't.
You act like a child and your God is like you, childish.
Perhaps you should call down fire upon me to consume me?

 

[natasha levchenko]

A Latter-Day Saint----from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Nicknamed the "Mormons."

i did not know.sorry)no offence )

 

[Electus de Lumine]

I have stated before that I am a non-believer in Christianity and other religions that pose the risk of going to hell if you do not believe and serve their God. I am here to debate the moral nature of Christianity and those other religions as well as the validity of such religions.

I am in an undecided mindset leaning a bit towards the idea that such religions are fear mongering nonsense, but am not entirely sure which is why I wish to have a debate of my own here. I have read into all the claimed evidence and debates by skeptics and believers and my mindset is an honest, open, undecided mindset. I have truly and honestly tried my best here, but my mindset has to remain undecided and this is an honest mindset I am having here.

Christians, for example, would tell me that is bull because they would claim that I am in denial and only being the fool lying to myself. Now this is an issue that cannot be debated because this is a matter of personal subjective experience. I am in my own mind and only I would know if I were lying to myself or not.

I know that I am not lying to myself. My lack of conviction in Christianity and those other religions is genuine. If, let's pretend, the Christian God were real, then he should understand this and should get me out of hell if I were to go there.

He should of understood that I would of lived my life for him and dedicated my life to him if I believed he were real. Furthermore, if he loves and cares about me so much, then that love and compassion should compel him to try and convince me time and time again through signs and such to try and save me since nothing else has worked to convince me.

What kind of loving person or parent wouldn't take such action and instead just leave their son/daughter to be tormented in hell forever and not get them out? Especially since belief is not a matter of choice and is instead a matter of what your honest open mindset leads you to.

It is as though the Christian God, for example, is saying:

"I am an all loving and all just God. I have had my son sacrificed. So in order for people to be convinced of my existence and of my son's sacrifice, I will just throw some things out there. Namely, the bible that I know many honest open minded people will not be convinced of. But if they still don't believe, then that is just too bad.

Especially for little children who die early and other people in other areas of the world who never got the chance to believe in me. I will not try to convince them any more than this even though I am an all powerful God who is more than capable of trying to do so. So that is all I am going to offer as a means of conviction. So take it or leave it. If you are not convinced and end up in hell, then that is just too bad and I am just going to have to leave you there to suffer for eternity."

So don't you see how such an attitude is not all loving, not all caring/just, and not morally righteous?

It is not moral.

In truth this is a scare tactic by Yahweh to try to get people to pledge their souls to him so they will be stripped of their free-will and worship him for eternity.

 

[Muffled]

Not your weak little God i haven't.
You act like a child and your God is like you, childish.
Perhaps you should call down fire upon me to consume me?

I believe there is no evidence that my God is little or weak.

I believe your assessment is flawed. What do you call just saying things about my God without evidence. Is that not just name calling and childish?

I believe that is something the devil would like. I believe the fire will come soon enough. There is no need to rush to judgement.

 

[allfoak]

I believe there is no evidence that my God is little or weak.

I believe your assessment is flawed. What do you call just saying things about my God without evidence. Is that not just name calling and childish?

I believe that is something the devil would like. I believe the fire will come soon enough. There is no need to rush to judgement.

This is what prompted my response.

I believe the truth is that you must accept Jesus as Lord and Savior to get into the Kingdom of God or you will be sent to Hell. Now that you have heard it I can condemn you for not doing it.

And you think that my response is childish?

 

[Muffled]

That's fine if you don't wish to debate with me anymore. I completely understand. If you ever change your mind, then you are free to do so with me. But it would not be in regards to the claimed evidence out there regarding God's existence and the afterlife. It would instead be in regards to whether God's moral nature really is all loving, all just, and righteous or not.

You are right that I don't prefer to look anymore into the claimed evidence and see what is true since it would just take up much of my life dedicating myself and researching on this topic. This is because the thing I wish to live for is to learn how to compose. So that is the hobby I wish to live for. I see no reason to be disappointed in that because everyone has their own hobby/career they wish to pursue.

I think it would be silly for anyone to be disappointed and frown upon me since it would be no different than a situation where a dentist or a teacher frowns upon me since I don't wish to dedicate my life into their careers. Lastly, I think my disagreement with God's moral nature is actually based on rational reasoning and clear evidence all around me.

It is based on all the knowledge I have learned throughout my life. We as human beings naturally learn what is right and what is wrong throughout our lives. It is knowledge that is obtained naturally throughout our lives no different than how we learn a language naturally throughout our lives. Once we have learned language, we then have authority to speak it.

Morality is no different. Since I have learned what is right and what is wrong throughout my life, then that gives me authority on the topic. That gives me authority on the topic of God's moral standards and for such a rejection and disagreement of his moral nature to be a valid and sound position. To say that my disagreement with God's moral nature is arrogant nonsense would be no different than telling me:

"You have no authority on the English language. You are an arrogant fool to think that you know what words mean and how to apply them. You have no rational reasoning or evidence whatsoever for thinking that you have any authority on the English language."

The type of evidence I am talking about here is rock solid. It is no different than a situation where you can clearly see a tree in your yard. You seeing that tree being there is clear evidence of that tree being there. Such clear evidence also applies to morality. You can clearly see what is right and what is wrong. You know that harming an innocent living thing or your brother/sister is wrong.

But such clear evidence does not apply to the existence of God and the afterlife and neither does it apply to God's moral nature somehow being righteous, all loving, and all just. This type of claimed evidence regarding God's existence is just a simple matter of debate. You see skeptics and believers debating this claimed evidence all the time. But you would never see such a debate regarding the clear evidence that indicates that a tree is in your yard.

I realize that believers and skeptics do debate God's moral nature. But such a debate should not exist in the first place since it is no different than debating whether a tree is in your yard when that tree is clearly there in the yard. Although, in this case, it might take a while for the Christian believers to see that tree.

I think I find this interesting. You are willing to debate the claimed evidence out there regarding the existence of God because you are convinced he exists and you are trying to help me see that he exists. But I am not willing to debate that topic since I have no interest in that topic and I am not convinced he exists. However, I am willing to debate with you the issue of God's moral character since I am convinced that his moral character is cruel, unjust, and unloving. I am trying to debate that topic with you to try and make you see that. But you are unwilling to debate that topic since you have no interest and you are not convinced that his moral nature is as I described it to be.

I believe this is rebellion against God and why you are going to Hell.

 

[allfoak]

I believe this is rebellion against God and why you are going to Hell.

You have to stop telling people they are going to hell.
It is offensive and against the rules.
I am going to start reporting people like yourself.
It is getting out of control.

 

[Muffled]

You have to stop telling people they are going to hell.
It is offensive and against the rules.
I am going to start reporting people like yourself.
It is getting out of control.

I don't believe I have to do anything simply because you tell me to. You have no authority over me.

I believe the rules tend to get interpreted the way people like to interpret them but I am willing to listen to why you think so. I do not say what I say to offend but simply to state the facts. If you wish to take issue with the facts present your evidence and I will present mine.

I believe that is an unfriendly and immoral way to act.

I don't believe you have a right to control debates to go the way you want them. Is it an admission that you have lost your argument?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Are people not allowed to express their opinions and state their be;iefs?

 

[allfoak]

I do not have to say anything to you other than stop telling me i am going to hell.
the next time i hear it from you whether it is to me or someone else i am reporting you.

 

[allfoak]

Are people not allowed to express their opinions and state their be;iefs?

Not like he is doing it.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I believe this is rebellion against God and why you are going to Hell.

Then that would be just as unfair as having a baby go to hell and burn forever. That baby had every excuse for not believing and serving God. I also have every excuse since my honest open minded mindset has lead me to not be convinced of God's existence. I know that looking further and researching further still won't convince me because I know that it is nothing more than a back and forth debate with no definite answer. So I know that I am only wasting my time researching any further on the topic. Therefore, I have every excuse for not believing just as a baby does and to have me to go hell would be just as unfair as having a baby go to hell.