I am Israel

[Badran]

I can't afford to be neutral. Any time a Jew makes statements or negotiates from a "neutral" position, the entire people suffer. I really don't care about the "Palestinians" or their goals, and I further don't care if they or anyone else consider this "fair". This is the most practical solution from my view. Deaths on both sides will continue to mount until another major war breaks out and, in the aftermath, an Israeli leadership does what is necessary to secure a lasting calm. I'm not calling for genocide. I'm not calling for any unnecessary suffering, but I don't believe two nations can peaceably live west of the Jordan River.

I see, well our positions are the exact opposites. I myself can't afford to not be neutral, because whatever it is that might result from me not being neutral is of no interest to me as it has no value. I do care for Palestinians and the Jews involved in this conflict, and i realize they are human beings whom most of them today are without a choice part of this conflict. In regards to the solution again I realize you're taking this position due to your opinion being that there is no other solution, but the fact is we can't know that for sure.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

I see, well our positions are the exact opposites. I myself can't afford to not be neutral, because whatever it is that might result from me not being neutral is of no interest to me as it has no value. I do care for Palestinians and the Jews involved in this conflict, and i realize they are human beings whom most of them today are without a choice part of this conflict. In regards to the solution again I realize you're taking this position due to your opinion being that there is no other solution, but the fact is we can't know that for sure.

My question for you: If this reveals itself to be the only practical solution to the issue, would you support it?

 

[Badran]

My question for you: If this reveals itself to be the only practical solution to the issue, would you support it?

In some situations we have to choose between the better of evils, so if this solution one day turns out to be the least unfair among a list of unfair solutions, yes i would.

But in a situation like this, in all honesty we can't come to this conclusion yet. Because the fact is neither leaders of both sides have tried to solve this situation while being neutral (which is the case with most conflicts), each is looking for their best interest. Just because most of the time this is how things work, doesn't mean we should consider it an inescapable part of life that we should accept without even trying.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

In some situations we have to choose between the better of evils, so if this solution one day turns out to be the least unfair among a list of unfair solutions, yes i would.

But in a situation like this, in all honesty we can't come to this conclusion yet. Because the fact is neither leaders of both sides have tried to solve this situation while being neutral (which is the case with most conflicts), each is looking for their best interest. Just because most of the time this is how things work, doesn't mean we should consider it an inescapable part of life that we should accept without even trying.

I tell you what, show me a practical alternative, and I'll support it.

 

[Chisti]

Jews in Israel are mostly European, so wouldn't they feel at home in some European country? European Jews living in the middle east is plain weird ... like, say Norwegians making a historic claim to a land in Nigeria.

 

[England my lionheart]

Jews in Israel are mostly European, so wouldn't they feel at home in some European country? European Jews living in the middle east is plain weird ... like, say Norwegians making a historic claim to a land in Nigeria.

 

[Badran]

I tell you what, show me a practical alternative, and I'll support it.

Okay, but just so i understand, are you including the interests of both sides, or Just Israel? Because if its just Israel then you wouldn't agree to any proposed solution (though i don't really have a solution that i'm confident it'll work).

In other words, if there is another solution, but its not as beneficial to Israel, but it is more fair, will you accept it?

 

[Flankerl]

Jews in Israel are mostly European, so wouldn't they feel at home in some European country? European Jews living in the middle east is plain weird ... like, say Norwegians making a historic claim to a land in Nigeria.

Here we go. Where is my popcorn...




there it is! opcorn:

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Okay, but just so i understand, are you including the interests of both sides, or Just Israel? Because if its just Israel then you wouldn't agree to any proposed solution (though i don't really have a solution that i'm confident it'll work).

In other words, if there is another solution, but its not as beneficial to Israel, but it is more fair, will you accept it?

It would depend on the solution. I'm not entirely adverse to the Muslim element getting some of what they want out of this. I'm including the interests of both sides, to an extent.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Jews in Israel are mostly European, so wouldn't they feel at home in some European country? European Jews living in the middle east is plain weird ... like, say Norwegians making a historic claim to a land in Nigeria.

Actually, those "European" Jews are more genetically similar to Arabs than Europeans. These aren't European people, and, to be honest, even "European" Jews have a larger claim in Middle East, including Yemen, than the British who took it from the Ottoman Empire after the conclusion of WWI. Further, the British, who took Palestine by right of conquest, designated all of Palestine(including what you call Jordan) for the Jews, initially. The UN truly has no say in this matter. Neither does the surrounding Arab countries or the Arabs they threw into Palestine to attempt to nullify the Jewish claim to the land.

 

[Bismillah]

Hey man, I agree that the West Bank should be given back to the Palestinian people, as was originally intended.

Ok

You seem to forget, I don't exclude Israel from any responsibility here. But you seem to think that Hamas owns no part of the conflict, considering every post is aimed at Israel.

No, I never condone the actions of Hamas. At the most I question why Hamas was created and more importantly why it is supported and the skeptic would note that Hamas has become Israel's allibi for every legal infraction in the region. Regardless I would never allleviate Hamas from their own role in Palestine's suffering which is large and closely followed by the P.A which is significant in itself. I detest the Palestinian leaders and hold them accountable for many sufferings placed on Palestinians in P.O.T as well as throughout the greater M.E.

Let's assume both sides agree on some form of peace treaty, West Bank is given back to Palestinians, while removing all the settlements, which results in a two-state solution. You really think all the problems will go away with Hamas still around? There is too much history there between the two sides to assume all will be well, regardless of a two-state solution.

I honest to God do believe that. There has been zero bonuses out of the "negotiations" stretching back for decades. A two state solution with an autonomous W.B would be a huge boon for Fatah and be seen as a direct refutation of Hamas' claim that negotiation w/ Israel is unhelpful.

 

[Bismillah]

The claim to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip would be one . of course we are dealing with our old friends Hamas and Hesbollah having the same goal doesnt help.

Except of course they have realized the need to recognize Isreali right to statehood.

 

[Bismillah]

I can't afford to be neutral. Any time a Jew makes statements or negotiates from a "neutral" position, the entire people suffer.

There has never been a time in modern politics where you can liken anything close to "neutral" in Israeli policy and the only ones that would suffer are colonists. I could care less of their "suffering".

I really don't care about the "Palestinians" or their goals, and I further don't care if they or anyone else consider this "fair". This is the most practical solution from my view.

Practical? Practical in what sense? Practical in illegally seizing land? Yes. Practicaling in stalling any one state or two state solution to avoid dealing with the problem? Yes. A solution to the problem? No.

You are in an outdated mindset of all or nothing. That is not reflective of contemporary politics as America has ensured Israeli military dominance. Isarel exists and is able to levy whatever terms it wants on Palestinians that is a fact.

However, what Israeli leadership is doing is avoiding the problem all together and actually worsening it in the long-term.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Bismillah,
First, show me where seizing the land is illegal, if that is, in fact, what Israel is doing.
Second, why should Israel be forced to form another state within its borders?
Third, exactly when and where did America secure Israeli military dominance?

 

[HiddenDjinn]

Except of course they have realized the need to recognize Isreali right to statehood.

Since when?

 

[Quagmire]

Jews in Israel are mostly European, so wouldn't they feel at home in some European country?

Hmmmmm. Interesting idea. What part of Europe did you have in mind? Poland? Germany? Russia maybe?

Oh wait a minute. I think they may have tried something like that already.

Jews in Israel are mostly European, so wouldn't they feel at home in some European country?

Congrats, Christi. I'm thinking about creating a special award just for this post. :yes:



(!?!!?!)

 

[darkendless]

Disgusting. Isreal's actions are against international law and a known violation of the Geneva Conventions. It is indeed an illegal act, if you can't understand that then you are advocating a pro-Zionist philosophy which is racist to the core.

It is however easy to ignore the horiffic violence that Palestine has wilfully inflicted upon Isareli civilians. Remember those bus bombing a few years back?

Both sides can't claim moral high ground. Point is they're both as bas as each other, the problem being Israel is far superior so therefore they get the bad guy tag. Reverse the roles and my money is on Palestine comitting genocide.

There is an ability to affect change vis a vis the international forum in Palestine, the same cannot be said for Russian occupied Chechnya.

Why do you say that?

 

[kai]

Except of course they have realized the need to recognize Isreali right to statehood.

I would say that the organization as a whole has essentially reconciled itself to a two-state settlement as a strategic option but has not formally adopted this as an organisational position.

Lots of Hamas officials have made statements,concerning a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders coupled with a ceasefire.

They have also made others that contradict them? Of course.

 

[Sunstone]

This sure has been a fruitful discussion. :clap

 

[kai]

This sure has been a fruitful discussion. :clap

A small reflection of the actual thing really!

Although these threads are quite predictable, i still think its better to talk about it than ignore it.