I am Israel

[England my lionheart]

Uh-huh. It's always a little interesting that sentiments such as "states don't have rights to exist" somehow never seem to really be applied to any states except for Israel.

It's just one more facet of the whole "when I say your people are bloodthirsty warmongers, there's nothing wrong with that, but when you say my people might also be bloodthirsty warmongers, you're a racist, a colonial oppressor, and part of a worldwide conspiracy to screw everyone" argument.

A classic; and well-aged, by this time, too.

Like i said earlier,this is comming from a group who believe in the "Protocols of Zion" and include it in their covenant,its hard to see how much more ridiculous they can get,its the Zionists ,Freemasons and the Rotary Club its a bit like the OP BS propaganda that is reminicent of Nazi propaganda of WWII,no surprise since they were allies.

 

[Bismillah]

All i am pointing out is context

********, what you are doing is justifying ethnic cleansing, don't shy around that. Israel is not "at war" with Fatah that entire "context" is duplicitous and delusional. It is a justification for these crimes.

Arab Countries had more or less aligned themselves with the Soviet union,The Arabs had equipment including Migs, even Mirages and having equipment doesnt necessarily make a formidable fighting force . The Soviets even threatened to intervene miltarily in the Yom Kippr war to halt the Israeli counter attack.

Hate to break it, but we're in a new decade, not the Cold War. The name of the game is F-16s not MIGs. And it wasn't one large bloc, such implication is overly simplistic and ignorant of the proxy wars fought between paramilitary groups such as in Syria and Jordan.

I havnt because i dont! read my posts again.

I did, you are using the plea of "context" to say that it is easy to criticize. It is the DUTY to criticize the actions of the so called "democracy" of the Middle East. You can't have it both way, PR as a progressive country and implement pictorial and racist laws.

There is no context except for Israel's purging of Palestinians and sponsoring of illegal colonies. Fullstop.

I like how you compartmentalize the Palestinians , are you proposing a seperate peace deal from the west bank then?

Compartmentalizing? The actions in questions speak of teh W.B reason would have it that you would then look at the W.B.

I'm not proposing anything, that is an irrelevant and unfounded question. What I am saying is that we hold Israel to the same standard you are always eager to apply to Arabs.

But I understand now, you like to mitigate one side's role in the issue. At least it's not bordering on the Zionism of people shown like EML.

The difference between us is that i am not surprised , like i said any country involved in that much turmoil is not going to be like mine.

The difference is that a neutral person would have denounced this activity, the biased Israeli supporter would have pulled exactly what you are doing.

That is appalling.

On the contrary i expect Muslims to not critisize other Muslims ,well not in the presence of unbeleivers anyway

You are quite ignorant of Islamic precedence then. And you excel in shifting the point of blame to me when you have done nothing but take a biased side in the entire affair.

The problem is England anyone who recognises Israels right to exist is open to a charge of " Zionist"

Such smear tactics and lies. The Zionist is the idiot who denies documented ethnic cleansing and denies their right of self-determination. They are as bad as Hamas and hold a much higher culpability for the violence in the region. They are the type of scum who delight and indulge in the state of the Palestinians today.

 

[kai]

********, what you are doing is justifying ethnic cleansing, don't shy around that. Israel is not "at war" with Fatah that entire "context" is duplicitous and delusional. It is a justification for these crimes. I am not justifying anything and i will thank you to not put words in my mouth what i am doing is pointing out the blatantly obvious. Its a unique situation i that area. I didn't say it was at war either,i said its on a war footing.

Hate to break it, but we're in a new decade, not the Cold War. The name of the game is F-16s not MIGs. And it wasn't one large bloc, such implication is overly simplistic and ignorant of the proxy wars fought between paramilitary groups such as in Syria and Jordan. You i believe were being over simplistic By suggesting Israels security is down to the US.

I did, you are using the plea of "context" to say that it is easy to criticize. It is the DUTY to criticize the actions of the so called "democracy" of the Middle East. You can't have it both way, PR as a progressive country and implement pictorial and racist laws. No i am saying context is everything, look at the whole picture its unique.

There is no context except for Israel's purging of Palestinians and sponsoring of illegal colonies. Fullstop. OH Ok Blinkers on then

Compartmentalizing? The actions in questions speak of teh W.B reason would have it that you would then look at the W.B.

I'm not proposing anything, that is an irrelevant and unfounded question. What I am saying is that we hold Israel to the same standard you are always eager to apply to Arabs. And do you Bismillah hold the Arabs to the same standard as you do the Israelis, It makes no odds to me, i am not involved, maybe you dont see the wood because theres too many trees.

But I understand now, you like to mitigate one side's role in the issue. At least it's not bordering on the Zionism of people shown like EML. I dont mitigate i point out the blatently obvious to those that find it all so surprising.

The difference is that a neutral person would have denounced this activity, the biased Israeli supporter would have pulled exactly what you are doing.

I already said i dont condone it, please read my posts

That is appalling.

You are quite ignorant of Islamic precedence then. And you excel in shifting the point of blame to me when you have done nothing but take a biased side in the entire affair. Sorry Bismillah i havnt took any sides just adding context which you ignore , i am afraid you are far too involved to take a look at the context from a non partisan point of view. You basically throw out cherry picked articles to score points for some reason. Me i am just interested in the subject because its been on the news for most of my life.

Such smear tactics and lies. The Zionist is the idiot who denies documented ethnic cleansing and denies their right of self-determination. They are as bad as Hamas and hold a much higher culpability for the violence in the region. They are the type of scum who delight and indulge in the state of the Palestinians today.

Do you accept the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish entity then? watch out because if you do i might just call you a zionist.


Context my friend otherwise you may have people believing all this just started yesterday.

 

[Bismillah]

Lovely

You basically throw out cherry picked articles to score points for some reason.

That just about sums it up.

Base line denial. This is not a "cherry picked article" this is a pretty big deal.

When 140,000 Palestinians have been illegal expelled out of the West Bank and 35% of Jerusalem has been confiscated for the building of colonies, it's a big deal.

I understand that a nonbiased person would have denounced this, you have yet to do that.

I understand that as I said

What I am saying is that we hold Israel to the same standard you are always eager to apply to Arabs.

After all, it's stupid of me to assume that the world is fair, it obviously doesn't work like that.

Israel will always be given a free pass, that's why I'm glad that Palestinians have stopped fighting a war between themselves which served the motives of foreign powers.

The British, The Americans, and most certainly the Israelis aren't interested in peace.

Colonizing land doesn't serve that interest and only a fool grasping at straws would try to shift the blame by screaming for context. There is no context for illegal seizure of land that belongs to another.

I don't accept the right of any right to exist, I acknowledge the presence of countries de facto place in the world. Obviously the Israelis and you don't.

 

[Flankerl]

Well given that there is a lot of exaggerated comments on this subject my understanding of ethnic cleansing is what happened to the Jewish people of Warsaw in WWII,i very much doubt that is whats occuring here.

Heh most people dont even know what the ghetto of warsaw was. It never was intended as a ghetto in the context of medieval ghettos. It was just a Durchgangslager/transit camp before they could exterminate them.


Which is why all the "palestinian genocide" cries about Gaza being like the warsaw ghetto are a bit... just a little bit hyped.

 

[Bismillah]

Heh most people dont even know what the ghetto of warsaw was. It never was intended as a ghetto in the context of medieval ghettos. It was just a Durchgangslager/transit camp before they could exterminate them.

With all due respect, I do KNOW what the ghettos in Warsaw were and the fate that befill its residents. I also know that it is completely irrelevant.

I understand that apparently EML does not understand the definition of "ethnic cleansing", regardless it is an applicable label.

Using exaggerated terms such as "genocide' is a strawman.

 

[kai]

Lovely That just about sums it up. Glad you agree

Base line denial. This is not a "cherry picked article" this is a pretty big deal. Yes i agree its a very sad fact of life in that very troubled area.Why did you pick that particular fact?

When 140,000 Palestinians have been illegal expelled out of the West Bank and 35% of Jerusalem has been confiscated for the building of colonies, it's a big deal.

I understand that a nonbiased person would have denounced this, you have yet to do that. How many times do i have to say i dont condone any of it before you will read it, Its like a selective blindness.

I understand that as I said

After all, it's stupid of me to assume that the world is fair, it obviously doesn't work like that. No it isnt, that is the hardest thing in life to accept when growing up isnt it, when you realize that the statement "it isn't fair" means absolutely nothing.

Israel will always be given a free pass, that's why I'm glad that Palestinians have stopped fighting a war between themselves which served the motives of foreign powers. I hope they stop the war mentality completely.

The British, The Americans, and most certainly the Israelis aren't interested in peace. Wow, broad brush-strokes their mate.

Colonizing land doesn't serve that interest and only a fool grasping at straws would try to shift the blame by screaming for context. There is no context for illegal seizure of land that belongs to another. No

I don't accept the right of any right to exist, I acknowledge the presence of countries de facto place in the world. Obviously the Israelis and you don't.

Oh really? what country has a de facto place in the world that i dont agree with.

Heres your headline:

Israel revokes residency of 140,000 Palestinians living in West Bank

My life i thought thats outragious how can they do that because without context it looks like the Israelis just up and did it like yesterday.

and then i read:

According to the document, they exchanged their ID cards for a card allowing them to cross. The card was valid for three years and could be renewed three times, each time adding another year.

If a Palestinian did not return within six months of the card’s expiration, their documents would be sent to the regional census supervisor. Residents who failed to return on time were registered as NLRs — no longer residents. The document makes no mention of any warning or information that the Palestinians received about the process.

So they had 3 years then could renew it 3 times for a year each time thats six years, then had to return within six months of its expiration,Thats six and a half years.

Didnt they know that? you mean 140,000 people over 30 years didnt know that? got any more info on that?

 

[Flankerl]

With all due respect, I do KNOW what the ghettos in Warsaw were and the fate that befill its residents. I also know that it is completely irrelevant.

I wasnt aware that i mentioned you anywhere or that I directed the posting towards you.

 

[England my lionheart]

Heh most people dont even know what the ghetto of warsaw was. It never was intended as a ghetto in the context of medieval ghettos. It was just a Durchgangslager/transit camp before they could exterminate them.


Which is why all the "palestinian genocide" cries about Gaza being like the warsaw ghetto are a bit... just a little bit hyped.

My Uncle was one of the first British Soldiers to go into Belsen,he saw first hand what ethnic cleansing means,its a kind of strange situation with Palestine,here we have Hamas pointing the finger at Israel calling them Nazis when they were the victims of Nazism when the reality is their organisation were allies of the Nazis during WWII and even had an SS Division,like you said,its a bit hyped.

 

[kai]

This is interesting :

: Jordan revoking citizenship from Palestinian refugees

Interview: Jordan revoking citizenship from Palestinian refugees | The Electronic Intifada

 

[Bismillah]

es i agree its a very sad fact of life in that very troubled area.Why did you pick that particular fact?

It's called the news, it changes ever so often, did you bother looking at the date of the article?

Another reason why I picked it is because a couple pages back it was you talking about Jordan's own act of revoking Palestinian citizenship, of course once it's Israelis and on an infinitely bigger scale you lose interest.

How many times do i have to say i dont condone any of it before you will read it, Its like a selective blindness.

Point me to a standalone post where you denounced the action you deliberately link your reaction to weasel words and justifications.

No it isnt, that is the hardest thing in life to accept when growing up isnt it, when you realize that the statement "it isn't fair" means absolutely nothing.

Yeah, you really should stop with the air of neutrality then, it's obvious where your own biases lie.

Didnt they know that? you mean 140,000 people over 30 years didnt know that? got any more info on that?

Did you read the second article in Ha'aretz?

Palestinians who choose to study and work abroad are finding out - too late - that they have imperiled their right to return to their hometown

Furthermore, given the secrecy and covert nature of this move I am pretty damned sure I know the motives for this.

And before we divulge even further, let me remind you that we are talking about Arabs born in a particular stretch of land that is illegally colonised and having their ties to that land being legally nullified for an extended period of absence. Do you realize the warped disgusting mentality behind that thinking?

It is exactly that thinking that leads to the sanction and funding of these colonies.

Israel entered us," bitterly say the people to whom the Law of Entry applies, "It wasn't we who entered it."

This is run in the mill Israeli policy of ethnic cleansing

He added that 70,000 East Jerusalem’s residents lost their residency in the city since 1967.

Abu-Khalaf is one of 4,577 Jerusalemites whose residency was revoked in 2008, according to the data provided by the Interior Ministry to the Center for the Defense of the Individual. That is the highest number of residency revocations since the policy began in 1995. The previous record was in 2006 - 1,363 people whose residency status expired. In 1995, the number was 91. In 1996, the number 739. In 1997, there were 1,067 cases. In 1991, the number was 20.

And to see Israeli policy of severing the ties people hold with their land

But in December 1995, during the term of Haim Ramon as interior minister in the short-lived government of Shimon Peres, the policy changed. Without previous warning, people who lived abroad but came for frequent visits discovered that their resident status had been revoked.

With the outbreak of the second intifada in 2000, the Interior Ministry resumed mass revocation of the permanent residency status of East Jerusalem Palestinians.

 

[Flankerl]

My Uncle was one of the first British Soldiers to go into Belsen,he saw first hand what ethnic cleansing means,its a kind of strange situation with Palestine,here we have Hamas pointing the finger at Israel calling them Nazis when they were the victims of Nazism when the reality is their organisation were allies of the Nazis during WWII and even had an SS Division,like you said,its a bit hyped.

If there was a genocide i would be against it. But a rather obvious feature of a genocide is that during the time of the genocide the population doesnt grow.

People dont get kids when they are shot in the back, sliced open by machetes, etc.
It just doesnt work that way.


But every month there are numerous claims of a genocide in the Westbank and Gaza while the population is growing and growing and growing and growing and growing......


One could say that its the biggest fail genocide or failocide in the history of mankind. The IDF should ask the Interhamwe for some advice on genocide if they want to do it right.

 

[Bismillah]

It's easier to deport people than to kill them when stealing their land, the IDF knows how to maximize its illegal activities.

 

[kai]

It's called the news, it changes ever so often, did you bother looking at the date of the article?

Another reason why I picked it is because a couple pages back it was you talking about Jordan's own act of revoking Palestinian citizenship, of course once it's Israelis and on an infinitely bigger scale you lose interest.

Point me to a standalone post where you denounced the action you deliberately link your reaction to weasel words and justifications.
Yeah, you really should stop with the air of neutrality then, it's obvious where your own biases lie.
Did you read the second article in Ha'aretz?
Furthermore, given the secrecy and covert nature of this move I am pretty damned sure I know the motives for this.

And before we divulge even further, let me remind you that we are talking about Arabs born in a particular stretch of land that is illegally colonised and having their ties to that land being legally nullified for an extended period of absence. Do you realize the warped disgusting mentality behind that thinking?

It is exactly that thinking that leads to the sanction and funding of these colonies.


This is run in the mill Israeli policy of ethnic cleansing



And to see Israeli policy of severing the ties people hold with their land

Now i am losing interest.

 

[England my lionheart]

If there was a genocide i would be against it. But a rather obvious feature of a genocide is that during the time of the genocide the population doesnt grow.

That would be my understanding

People dont get kids when they are shot in the back, sliced open by machetes, etc.
It just doesnt work that way.

I think the impact of genocide would be very apparent

But every month there are numerous claims of a genocide in the Westbank and Gaza while the population is growing and growing and growing and growing and growing......

Apparently

One could say that its the biggest fail genocide or failocide in the history of mankind. The IDF should ask the Interhamwe for some advice on genocide if they want to do it right.

Failocide sounds about right

 

[Bismillah]

Now i am losing interest.

I'm not surprised it's only interesting when it's Jordanians or some other Arab in the wrong.

 

[kai]

I'm not surprised it's only interesting when it's Jordanians or some other Arab in the wrong.

I forgot dont mention the Arabs. Maybe you should try it in the Islam DIR then you can have free reign. There nobody will put any context to your headlines. Unfortunately in open forums people like the to see the whole picture not just the detail you pick out.

 

[Bismillah]

I forgot dont mention the Arabs. Maybe you should try it in the Islam DIR then you can have free reign. There nobody will put any context to your headlines. Unfortunately in open forums people like the to see the whole picture not just the detail you pick out.

It's funny because I provided the historical narrative of these expulsion policies and the effects they've had on people and their purpose and you've managed to revert to ad hominem.

 

[kai]

It's funny because I provided the historical narrative of these expulsion policies and the effects they've had on people and their purpose and you've managed to revert to ad hominem.

And you have now lost me completely so i will bid you a fond farewell and leave you to it. Thanks for bringing it to our attention though, its interesting.

 

[England my lionheart]

With all due respect, I do KNOW what the ghettos in Warsaw were and the fate that befill its residents. I also know that it is completely irrelevant.

I understand that apparently EML does not understand the definition of "ethnic cleansing", regardless it is an applicable label.

Using exaggerated terms such as "genocide' is a strawman.

Genocide is a well used word by the purveyors of fine Islamofacism,really they would be better employed using three little words "we recognise Israel",no chance,well at least they are honest that they have no intention of a long term peace,the goal remains the same.