I am pro-abortion, not just pro-choice

[Deeje]

Bull plucky.
Humans "play god" all the time.
Every single time a person is put on life support is "playing god"

"Playing God" in that instance is saving life which for many was a good intervention. Life support kept many of them going whilst medical intervention saved them from death. Their recovery is proof that it was a good intervention. There is nothing in God's law to say that a person cannot save life, as long as they do not break God's law to do so. (like killing someone to harvest their organs, which I believe happens in some third world countries)

Playing God by ending a life (an innocent one like an aborted fetus) is a whole other issue.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

"Playing God" in that instance is saving life which for many was a good intervention. Life support kept many of them going whilst medical intervention saved them from death. Their recovery is proof that it was a good intervention. There is nothing in God's law to say that a person cannot save life, as long as they do not break God's law to do so. (like killing someone to harvest their organs, which I believe happens in some third world countries)

Playing God by ending a life (an innocent one like an aborted fetus) is a whole other issue.

Why on earth is it? Your god is on record as being more than willing to indulge in a little genocide & infanticide from time to time. The amount of times I've seen miscarriages and still births explained away as "God just wanted another angel" on social media makes me wonder why it's okay for God to perform an abortion but not, y'know, the humans who made the foetus in the first place. And I'm asking ironically because I know that any attempt at justification will simply boil down to 'because he's God' so basically you've got no real explanation.

 

[Deeje]

Why on earth is it? Your god is on record as being more than willing to indulge in a little genocide & infanticide from time to time. The amount of times I've seen miscarriages and still births explained away as "God just wanted another angel" on social media makes me wonder why it's okay for God to perform an abortion but not, y'know, the humans who made the foetus in the first place.

Oh dear, there is so much assumption in that post I hardly know where to start.....

First of all, 'my God' has the absolute authority over life and death because he created life and because he alone has the right to end it, and he alone has the power to restore it. That is the difference. Death to God is not a permanent state.

The times when a great loss of life occurred, it was his prerogative to act in any way he saw fit under the circumstances. He does not have to answer to you or I about any of his own choices or actions. No life lost is gone forever and death leads only to a peaceful sleep....not to any heavenly bliss or eternal fiery hell. There is no immortal soul and a restoration of life is accomplished by resurrection.

Those who explain miscarriages as "God just wanted another angel" sicken me as much as it does you. God does not perform abortions, humans do that. Miscarriages occur generally because of some fault with the genetics of the fetus or with the functioning of the mother's body, either physically or chemically. Many take place that women are not even aware of.

And I'm asking ironically because I know that any attempt at justification will simply boil down to 'because he's God' so basically you've got no real explanation.

Who or what do you think God is? I can assure you that he not in any way related to the god that Christendom serves.

 

[Sunstone]

Thought this was an interesting article: http://www.salon.com/2015/04/24/i_a...we_must_support_the_procedure_and_the_choice/

My views have shifted from being anti-abortion to being pro-choice, after losing my Catholic blinders and being able to think on the subject independently. I now totally support abortion and all other forms of contraception, as a fundamental right in terms of self-autonomy and healthcare.

What does "pro-abortion" mean to you? Does it mean you think abortions are a great thing and you want more of them?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What does "pro-abortion" mean to you? Does it mean you think abortions are a great thing and you want more of them?

That a person supports the procedure. A lot of pro-choice people say they support the choice to have an abortion, but don't support abortion itself. I don't necessarily want more of them as I want better birth control and higher usage of it to prevent contraception in the first place, but I don't have a problem with the procedure.

 

[Sunstone]

That a person supports the procedure. A lot of pro-choice people say they support the choice to have an abortion, but don't support abortion itself. I don't necessarily want more of them as I want better birth control and higher usage of it to prevent contraception in the first place, but I don't have a problem with the procedure.

Thanks for the clarification. I tend to agree with you here.

 

[McBell]

"Playing God" in that instance is saving life which for many was a good intervention. Life support kept many of them going whilst medical intervention saved them from death. Their recovery is proof that it was a good intervention. There is nothing in God's law to say that a person cannot save life, as long as they do not break God's law to do so. (like killing someone to harvest their organs, which I believe happens in some third world countries)

Playing God by ending a life (an innocent one like an aborted fetus) is a whole other issue.

Double standards

 

[Timothy Bryce]

Thought this was an interesting article: http://www.salon.com/2015/04/24/i_a...we_must_support_the_procedure_and_the_choice/

My views have shifted from being anti-abortion to being pro-choice, after losing my Catholic blinders and being able to think on the subject independently. I now totally support abortion and all other forms of contraception, as a fundamental right in terms of self-autonomy and healthcare.

Great article. I agree with it 100%

 

[Deeje]

Double standards

And how do you judge a double standard Mestemia?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Oh dear, there is so much assumption in that post I hardly know where to start.....

First of all, 'my God' has the absolute authority over life and death because he created life and because he alone has the right to end it, and he alone has the power to restore it. That is the difference.

Yup, 'Because he's God'. Totally called it.

The times when a great loss of life occurred, it was his prerogative to act in any way he saw fit under the circumstances. He does no have to answer to you or I about any of his own choices or actions.

He may not have to answer to anyone but as creatures directly affected by his actions and his pontifications, we are certainly entitled to express how we feel - especially when pro-lifers are doing exactly that when they protest outside abortion clinics.

No life lost is gone forever and death leads only to a peaceful sleep....not to any heavenly bliss or eternal fiery hell.

... so why this furore about women aborting foetuses? You make it sound as though death is no significant consequence. Also, you're making an unsubstantiated empty claim.

There is no immortal soul and a restoration of life is accomplished by resurrection.

Unsubstantiated claim.

Those who explain miscarriages as "God just wanted another angel" sicken me as much as it does you. God does not perform abortions, humans do that. Miscarriages occur generally because of some fault with the genetics of the fetus or with the functioning of the mother's body, either physically or chemically. Many take place that women are not even aware of.

How do you know it's not God doing it? Your own holy book shows he's not adverse to a little bit of mass-murder. "God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to fulfil"

Who or what at do you think God is? I can assure you that he not in any way related to the god that Christendom serves.

I could have totally trolled you here by saying "God is a really nice guy who knows better than all of us and we should totally trust him" just so your second sentence makes him sound like a *******. Really though, I believe the Abrahamic god is a cosmic tyrant with a narcissism complex that could blot out the stars.

 

[Kirran]

@Deeje it may be worth making you aware that when you speak in a way that totally assumes your view of God is correct and that it has an effect on other people, it tends to make those who don't believe what you're saying switch off. More equivocal language i.e. 'in my understanding', 'I believe', 'based on my study of scriptures and teachings that makes sense to me' and whatever might get people to listen to you more readily. Also, it would fit in better with RF's ethos!

 

[Reggie Miller]

Thought this was an interesting article: http://www.salon.com/2015/04/24/i_a...we_must_support_the_procedure_and_the_choice/

My views have shifted from being anti-abortion to being pro-choice, after losing my Catholic blinders and being able to think on the subject independently. I now totally support abortion and all other forms of contraception, as a fundamental right in terms of self-autonomy and healthcare.

So you now support legalized murder of unborn children. Wonderful.

 

[Kirran]

So you now support legalized murder of unborn children. Wonderful.

You say this in a very alarmist fashion, as if support for abortion hadn't long gone mainstream in many countries, including the USA, most of the West and some of the countries with the largest populations like China.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thought this was an interesting article: http://www.salon.com/2015/04/24/i_a...we_must_support_the_procedure_and_the_choice/

My views have shifted from being anti-abortion to being pro-choice, after losing my Catholic blinders and being able to think on the subject independently. I now totally support abortion and all other forms of contraception, as a fundamental right in terms of self-autonomy and healthcare.

I generally agree with the points in the article, but I still think that "pro-choice" is the better term for my views, because:

- forced abortion has been a real thing and I'm very much opposed to that sort of abortion.

- I'm also completely supportive of a woman's right not to have an abortion if that's what she chooses. I'm not interested in railroading a woman - even one who I think might not be a good candidate to be a parent - into abortion (or adoption, or any other choice). I'm more interested in supporting the woman in whatever she chooses, and if her choice ends up with her raising a child, giving her tools to help her be the best parent she can be.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

So you now support legalized murder of unborn children. Wonderful.

Not a human or a child, a foetus that has the capacity to develop into a human child. By anti-choicer logic, this

is a sapling.

 

[Revoltingest]

That a person supports the procedure. A lot of pro-choice people say they support the choice to have an abortion, but don't support abortion itself. I don't necessarily want more of them as I want better birth control and higher usage of it to prevent contraception in the first place, but I don't have a problem with the procedure.

I'll add that I don't see the need (claimed by many pro-choicers) to make abortion "legal but rare".
To be legal & available is what I want. Individuals will make their own decision to use it or not.
That's not my concern. Thus, I'm "pro-abortion".
I'm also "pro-root canal", "pro-lumpectomy", & "pro-fracture displacement reduction".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'll add that I don't see the need (claimed by many pro-choicers) to make abortion "legal but rare".
To be legal & available is what I want. Individuals will make their own decision to use it or not.
That's not my concern. Thus, I'm "pro-abortion".
I'm also "pro-root canal", "pro-lumpectomy", & "pro-fracture displacement reduction".

But you aren't interested in, say, reducing cancer rates so that there are fewer lumps needing lumpectomies? I think the same principle applies, especially in the case of surgical abortions: get surgery when you need it, but if you have good options that let you avoid surgery, even better.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That a person supports the procedure. A lot of pro-choice people say they support the choice to have an abortion, but don't support abortion itself.

... which I think is perfectly okay. If someone supports access to abortion for others even though they'd personally never get an abortion, fair enough: they've made their own choice for themselves and uphold the right of others to do the same.

 

[columbus]

Not a human or a child, a foetus that has the capacity to develop into a human child. By anti-choicer logic, this

is a sapling.

No, it is not a tree or even a sapling. However, it is an oak.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

But you aren't interested in, say, reducing cancer rates so that there are fewer lumps needing lumpectomies? I think the same principle applies, especially in the case of surgical abortions: get surgery when you need it, but if you have good options that let you avoid surgery, even better.

Interesting analogy.
But I'm still "pro-lumpectomy".