I am reading the Quran, Gospel, Psalms, Tora, BoMormon, Avesta and i wonder if the Vedas are also...

[W3bcrowf3r]

How do you know they're wrong? Who is correct in their purports of the Bhagavad Gita, for example...Srila Prabhupada? Swami Mukundananda? Each school of Vedanta will see it differently. Which one is correct, which one is wrong?

Can you, should you take the scriptures at face value? If you do you can find seemingly irreconcilable differences and contradictions that really are not there when one understands the entire context. Not wise for a layperson to do his/her own interpreting. I can give a specific example in BG 7.21, if you like.

I ask God to protect me from wrong interpretations, and to increase my knowledge and to grant me Hes understanding every single time before i read Scripture. I don't believe God gives stones when i am asking Him for bread.

What i believe is that it's better to ask God for the right understanding. Instead of following the understanding of others who claim to have the right understanding.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Another fallacy very similar to the previous one you used.
You can take that lesson from any source you like.
Christianity is partly based on rejecting and outcasting its more gnostic or mystic brothers and sisters.
I don't think the historical Jesus would have been very happy about that.

I feel Jesus would be just fine with the New Testament as it stands. Mysticism is at the heart of any genuine faith Christianity included. A problem I see with Gnosticism is that it rejects the idea that Jesus had a physical body as we do.

Jesus would certainly be unhappy with many aspects of how Christianity is now.

They may think that, but it is only their thoughts and behaviour that will change the actual direction they take, nothing else.

You don’t think religion encourages right thinking and right action?

An important purpose of religion is to unify people and create bonds of love between all peoples. If religion becomes a source of disunity and estrangement as much religion does these days then we are better to be without it. There is no benefit to fanaticism or extremism. In that respect I appreciate atheism.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Vedas? You can argue its polytheistic but I believe its monotheistic. Well, I don't know the language so I am ashamed to say that I cant talk with so much authority. But I think na thasya prathima asthi says a lot.

What does 'na thasya prathima asthi' mean?

Why do you believe the Vedas are Monotheistic? And not Polytheistic? If you admit you can't read Sanskrit, then how sure are you? Did someone who knows Sanskrit tell you something?

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Well done to you, follow your heart it will guide you.

"O SON OF SPIRIT! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting."

Regards Tony

Thanks brother.

May the Peace, Blessings and Love of God be upon you.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thanks brother.

May the Peace, Blessings and Love of God be upon you.

I thank you, my life has been blessed many time over and I pray your journey likewise has many doors opened for you.

I found that the key in this day is the Oneness of God, in turn that shows us we are but one Human Race.

Peace be with you, Regards Tony

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

I'm confused as to how "sectarian" and "polytheistic" can be combined here. Could you perhaps clarify?




Kind of looks like you're searching for confirmation bias if you've already decided a Vedas translation must be wrong if it's polytheist in outlook despite your not knowing the language. Maybe 99% of translations of the Vedas use polytheist language because most Hindus are polytheists?

If you think this is frustrating, you're going to have a hard time dealing with the Avesta.

I was already reading the Avesta. Why would i be frustrated when reading it?

I already know that most of the Hindus are Polytheists, and that's how they will write their translations. That's why i wonder if the Holy Scripture is Monotheistic or Polytheistic.

I believe in Monotheism. Monotheism and Polytheism can't be mixed.

Why am i asking this question? Because i learned to never trust a translation again. I learned it from Christianity. The whole world believes Jesus Christ is God. But i did some research and found out that they were adding things to their translation which weren't there in the Greek Gospel. And this only confirmed the Quran, about how they made Jesus Christ an Idol and how they call him the literal Son of God, instead of a spiritual Son. And this confirmed the Tora and Psalms as well.

My biggest concern would be, if the Vedas aren't Monotheistic, how so many people can be misguided if they don't even have a Monotheistic Inspired Holy Scripture. I just don't believe in Polytheism.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I actually avoid talking with others about religion if i do not know what the Scripture say. And i also do not learn from sectarians.

I find talking to others helps me learn what their scripture says. Beyond that I like people regardless of whether they have scripture or not.

Example, i dont want to learn from trinitarian catholics who they claim Jesus Christ is. I need someone who knows the Bible for that. And these are rare.

If a Catholic wanted to talk to me about faith and religion I see no problem. Catholics are a diverse group and there’s Catholics that have good insight into the limitations of fundamentalism.

If i want to learn. I just read the Scriptures. I stopped a long time ago with listening to 'teachers'. If the teachers teach wrong doctrines, then what to expect from blindly followers..

I left Christianity nearly 30 years ago to become a Baha’i so I’m in a good space about Christians and what they believe.The Bible makes sense to me because I’m not obligated to believe all of Christianities supposed fundamentals. The Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, the exclusivity of Christ alone for salvation and a literal resurrection are examples.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

In other words, you are asking if the Veda was inspired by the Christian God? The answer is No.

Firstly, India has always had its own fair share of Gods and does not need a foreign God for inspiration. Secondly, the Veda is believed to be eternal, without a beginning and therefore was not inspired or created by any God - local or foreign.



Again, this is a foreign religion and it will not align with your Western/Semitic concept of religion, which requires exactly one God and exactly one Book. So, the answer to your question is No.

I believe the Christian God is the same God as the Arab, Jewish, Indian, African, European, American, Russian God etc. I believe that we humans have One God. And i believe that One God send different Messengers to different Nations in different times.

So i do not believe that i need just one Book. No, that's why i am trying to read as many as possible. But of course the real journey starts when i master their languages. So i wonder if you know Sanskrit and i wonder if you have studied the Vedas and read them a dozen of times from cover to cover when you are giving such a sharp reply.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Why? If 'dharma' is not humane behavior then what is it? I do not know why you should be skeptical about it. As Krishna said in Chapter 16, verses 1-3:

"Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor — these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature."

Or as Buddha said about the "Noble Eight-fold path": The Eightfold Path consists of eight practices: right view, right resolve, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right samadhi ('meditative absorption or union').
Noble Eightfold Path - Wikipedia

Now the Christians may say that they invented them and the Muslims may say that they invented them, the fact is that they are the basic rules for a peaceful and happy society, they are eternal (Sanatan).

The Gospel and the Quran weren't the first Revelations. So don't worry about people who say such things. The majority of the people say many things which have no bases in the Holy Scriptures they claim to follow.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

In Hinduism, sects mean a difference in philosophy. Such differences are respected in a way one scientist will respect a theory different from his own, though he/she may not subscribe to it.
I am not a part of any sect in Hinduism. I am a free bird, but I subscribe to non-dual Hinduism (Advaita).

- One of the common words to indicate God in Sanskrit is Deva.

"Deva is a Sanskrit word found in Vedic literature of 2nd millennium BCE. Monier-Williams translates it as "heavenly, divine, terrestrial things of high excellence, exalted, shining ones". The concept also is used to refer to deity or god.

The Sanskrit deva- derives from Indo-Iranian *daiv- which in turn descends from the Proto-Indo-European word, *deiwo-, originally an adjective meaning "celestial" or "shining", which is a (not synchronic Sanskrit) vrddhi derivative from the root *diw meaning "to shine", especially as the day-lit sky. The feminine form of *deiwos is *deiwih2, which descends into Indic languages as devi, in that context meaning "female deity". Also deriving from *deiwos, and thus cognates of deva, are Lithuanian Dievas (Latvian Dievs, Prussian Deiwas), Germanic Tiwaz (seen in English "Tuesday") and the related Old Norse Tivar (gods), and Latin deus "god" and divus "divine", from which the English words "divine", "deity", French "dieu", Portuguese "deus", Spanish "dios" and Italian "dio", also "Zeys/Ζεύς" - "Dias/Δίας", the Greek father of the gods, are derived. It is related to *Dyeus which while from the same root, may originally have referred to the "heavenly shining father", and hence to "Father Sky", the chief God of the Indo-European pantheon, continued in Sanskrit Dyaus.

According to Douglas Harper, the etymological roots of Deva mean "a shining one," from *div- "to shine," and it is a cognate with Greek dios "divine" and Zeus, and Latin deus "god" (Old Latin deivos)."
Deva (Hinduism) - Wikipedia

- Another word to denote Gods in Sanskrit is Asura.

"The Aesir-Asura correspondence is the relation between Vedic Sanskrit Asura and Old Norse Æsir and Proto-Uralic *asera, all of which mean 'lord, powerful spirit, god'.

Monier-Williams traces the etymological roots of Asura (असुर) to Asu (असु), which means life of the spiritual world or departed spirits. In the oldest verses of the Samhita layer of Vedic texts, the Asuras are any spiritual, divine beings including those with good or bad intentions, and constructive or destructive inclinations or nature.

Asura is used as an adjective meaning "powerful" or "mighty". In the Rigveda, two generous kings, as well as some priests, have been described as asuras. One hymn requests a son who is an asura. In nine hymns, Indra is described as asura. Five times, he is said to possess asurya, and once he is said to possess asuratva. Agni has total of 12 asura descriptions, Varuna has 10, Mitra has eight, and Rudra has six. The Book 1 of Rig Veda describes Savitr (Vedic solar deity) as an Asura who is a "kind leader"."
Asura - Wikipedia

The third word for God in Sanskrit is Ishvara:

"The root of the word Ishvara comes from īś- (Ish) which means "capable of" and "owner, ruler, chief of", ultimately cognate with English own (Germanic *aigana-, PIE *aik-). The second part of the word Ishvara is vara which means depending on context, "best, excellent, beautiful", "choice, wish, blessing, boon, gift", and "suitor, lover, one who solicits a girl in marriage". The composite word, Ishvara literally means "owner of best, beautiful", "ruler of choices, blessings, boons", or "chief of suitor, lover".

The word Īśvara never appears in Rigveda. However, the verb īś- does appear in Rig veda, where the context suggests that the meaning of it is "capable of, able to". It is absent in Samaveda, is rare in Atharvaveda, appears in Samhitas of Yajurveda. The contextual meaning, however as the ancient Indian grammarian Pāṇini explains, is neither god nor supreme being."
Ishvara - Wikipedia

How many times have you read the Vedas from cover to cover if i may ask? And what is Advaita?

And thanks for explaining the words.

 

[Marcion]

You don’t think religion encourages right thinking and right action?

An important purpose of religion is to unify people and create bonds of love between all peoples. If religion becomes a source of disunity and estrangement as much religion does these days then we are better to be without it. There is no benefit to fanaticism or extremism. In that respect I appreciate atheism.

It is spiritual philosophy and collective spiritual practices (and attraction to the Great) that encourage people to grow in the proper direction. Right thinking and right action is only a part of that proper direction.
But that is not the same as religion.

Religion may or may not encourage those two, that depends on the ins and outs of their ideology. And if you strip away all the bad things in religions you are no longer left with something which you can call a religion, they just become different spiritual cults who are devoid of any animosity towards each other. You can think e.g. of Sufism or Buddhism.

Buddhism never used to talk about itself as a religion nor did any other path from India do so originally.
Dharma is not just another word for religion, it has nothing to do with it. Religions are by their very nature divisive because of irrational aspects to their way of thinking. Many people in my country now want nothing to do with religion but that does not mean that they do not seek spirituality in their lives.

So the solution to this problem is perhaps to change religion into something better. Let people do meditation, yoga or mindfulness, let them find a mystic path and phase out the dogma's, the irrational beliefs that educated modern people no longer want to believe and teach them some real spiritual practices instead of promising them heaven or hell on dubious grounds.
And if religions refuse this and don't want to bend, then it will happen as over here where only a few old and grey people still gather on sundays in the few church buildings that have not yet been turned into appartements, casino's or party halls.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Vedas are ancient religious texts from an Indo-Aryan culture that existed in India at the time. They are not monotheistic at all. Indo-Aryans, like Indo-Europeans, worshipped a number of deities stemming from Proto-Indo-European religion so you'll find that their religion had a lot in common with ancient Hellenic religion and other ancient polytheistic religions. Hinduism as we know it now is a lot different from then, though.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

I find talking to others helps me learn what their scripture says. Beyond that I like people regardless of whether they have scripture or not.



If a Catholic wanted to talk to me about faith and religion I see no problem. Catholics are a diverse group and there’s Catholics that have good insight into the limitations of fundamentalism.



I left Christianity nearly 30 years ago to become a Baha’i so I’m in a good space about Christians and what they believe.The Bible makes sense to me because I’m not obligated to believe all of Christianities supposed fundamentals. The Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, the exclusivity of Christ alone for salvation and a literal resurrection are examples.

I am a Scripture only guy. I already listened to so many different denominations. And i always found at least one doctrine i just don't agree with. That's why i protect myself from them by not talking about topics with them. The majority of us do not even know the original languages of the Scriptures, which means that we might be wrong without even knowing it.

Ah i believe if we know who Christ is and we reject him, that such a thing would be not wise. He is Christ after all. I also believe in a literal Resurrection. I believe in Miracles. Else the virgin birth wouldn't be true, and many other things. I already witnessed some personal miracles myself.

What did you mean with you left Christianity? You mean the denominations? Or the Gospel? I think leaving the denominations is what every intelligent person must do.

And why did you find or choose the Bahai Faith? I haven't read their Scripture yet.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

The Vedas are ancient religious texts from an Indo-Aryan culture that existed in India at the time. They are not monotheistic at all. Indo-Aryans, like Indo-Europeans, worshipped a number of deities stemming from Proto-Indo-European religion so you'll find that their religion had a lot in common with ancient Hellenic religion and other ancient polytheistic religions. Hinduism as we know it know is a lot different from then, though.

I wonder if you know Sanskrit and if you have read the Vedas a dozen of times from cover to cover? I know people who believe holy in a Trinity, without even knowing Greek to read the original Gospel.

The Quran was written in the time when the Arabs were worshipping Idols. The Gospel was spread in Rome as well, where they were worshipping Idols as well. So.., i do not want to follow that statement blindly.

Maybe you can back up your statement with your knowledge of Sanskrit and quotes from the Book with your word for word explanation?

 

[Jainarayan]

I ask God to protect me from wrong interpretations, and to increase my knowledge and to grant me Hes understanding every single time before i read Scripture. I don't believe God gives stones when i am asking Him for bread.

How do you know he answered you? Maybe he has other plans.

What i believe is that it's better to ask God for the right understanding. Instead of following the understanding of others who claim to have the right understanding.

How do you know they don't have the right understanding? Why are you any more likely to receive God's inspiration than someone else?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I wonder if you know Sanskrit and if you have read the Vedas a dozen of times from cover to cover? I know people who believe holy in a Trinity, without even knowing Greek to read the original Gospel.

The Quran was written in the time when the Arabs were worshipping Idols. The Gospel was spread in Rome as well, where they were worshipping Idols as well. So.., i do not want to follow that statement blindly.

Maybe you can back up your statement with your knowledge of Sanskrit and quotes from the Book with your word for word explanation?

Dude, you could just read about the Vedas and the culture they came from. They have prayers and rites to different deities and stories of many gods. There is no conspiracy to make them polytheistic. I don't know why you're so bent on finding monotheism in them. Does it matter? Probably best for you to stick to the Qur'an and Tanakh for your religious purposes.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

How do you know he answered you? Maybe he has other plans.



How do you know they don't have the right understanding? Why are you any more likely to receive God's inspiration than someone else?

I am trusting in God. My trust in God should be more then in that of the understanding of those who claim to understand.
In the end i am responsible for what my believe is. And i dont want to believe in something that is incorrect because i have followed someones belief.

As an ex salafi i know how wrong it is to put your trust in scholars. I was following the most orthodox scholars in 'islam' and i found out that they were just following a huge fabricated religion which they are mixing with the Scripture.

I saw the same pattern in Trinitarianism and Talmudism.

Of course i can learn from others. But i do not want to follow something blindly.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Dude, you could just read about the Vedas and the culture they came from. They have prayers and rites to different deities and stories of many gods. There is no conspiracy to make them polytheistic. I don't know why you're so bent on finding monotheism in them. Does it matter? Probably best for you to stick to the Qur'an and Tanakh for your religious purposes.

Maybe its better if you go learn Sanskrit if you want to talk about the Vedas. You seem to have so much blind faith in what the people do in the name of the Scripture.

You should learn to stop judging a Book by its cover.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Maybe its better if you go learn Sanskrit if you want to talk about the Vedas. You seem to have so much blind faith in what the people do in the name of the Scripture.

You should learn to stop judging a Book by its cover.

It's not me with the problem here so I don't need your "advice". I'm not interested in reading the Vedas in Sanskrit. You should consider why you care so much about what a book says.

 

[Rival]

I'm not interested in reading the Vedas in Sanskrit.

This is going to be my response now whenever someone says something profoundly stupid to me.