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I am the living bread

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Because it had been carefully recorded in the New Testament. It is historical fact. That is what the church accepts.
What a long and roundabout way to finally get to an answer to my original question:

Is it just because of a general trust in the Bible, or do you have specific extra-Biblical evidence that Jesus instituted the practice of Eucharist/Holy Communion/a shared ritual meal?

So you believe the Last Supper story specifically because it's in the New Testament and not because you have extra-Biblical specific evidence.

Do I understand you correctly?
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
I totally missed that! I have just been completely oblivious. Is there a little book or someone who has written down all of these threes? That is a neat idea.

So do you now understand what I mean by the layers of symbols and the supporting verses that I have shown you?

Brass - Silver - Gold
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Red - Purple - Blue
Moon - Star - Sun
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood


And that those symbols represent different levels. Just like the hill is higher than the valley, or the river is higher than the sea.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Valley - Hill - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Corn - Oil - Wine


Do you also understand what I mean by the weaving of the layers of symbols?
That different layers are blended into each other correctly according to their positions.

Like:

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. Amos

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Valley - Hill - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Corn - Oil - Wine


Then will I make their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil, saith the Lord God. Ezekiel

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Valley - Hill - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Corn - Oil - Wine


The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing. Psalm.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Valley - Hill - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Corn - Oil - Wine


When the layers are understood, then the weaving can be understood.
So their speech can then be understood.

We would then be able to talk about it. To have a symbolic conversation.


Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. John.


Like consider the bread, the oil, and the wine.

And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart. Psalm

Level1 - Level2 - Level3
Bread - Oil - Wine.

If Jesus says that he is Bread. Then he is not talking highly of himself.

Do you understand what I mean?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
In the Gospel of John, Jesus is recorded as speaking;

"I am the living Bread which came down from Heaven. If any man eat of this Bread, he shall live for ever; and the Bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” John 6:51

What did Jesus mean?
He meant to say the living dead.

Just like blessed are the cheese makers.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
In the Gospel of John, Jesus is recorded as speaking;

"I am the living Bread which came down from Heaven. If any man eat of this Bread, he shall live for ever; and the Bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” John 6:51

What did Jesus mean?

Every Word/Teaching and Saying of Yeshua/Jesus is Profound having Critical Importance.

In Christendom the Living Bread is the Eucharist/Holy Communion.


Eucharist


The Eucharist (/ˈjuːkərɪst/; Greek: εὐχαριστία, translit. eucharistía, lit. "thanksgiving"), also known as Holy Communion and the Lord's Supper among other names, is a Christian rite that is considered a sacrament in most churches, and as an ordinance in others. According to the New Testament, the rite was instituted by Jesus Christ during the Last Supper; giving his disciples bread and wine during a Passover meal, he commanded them to "do this in memory of me" while referring to the bread as "my body" and the cup of wine as "the blood of my covenant, which is poured out for many".[1][2][3]

The elements of the Eucharist, bread (leavened or unleavened) and wine (or non-alcoholic grape juice), are consecrated on an altar or a communion table and consumed thereafter, usually on Sundays. Communicants, those who consume the elements, may speak of "receiving the Eucharist" as well as "celebrating the Eucharist". Christians generally recognize a special presence of Christ in this rite, though they differ about exactly how, where, and when Christ is present.

The Catholic Church states that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ under the species of bread and wine. It maintains that by the consecration, the substances of the bread and wine actually become the substances of the body and blood of Jesus Christ (transubstantiation) while the appearances or "species" of the bread and wine remain unaltered (e.g. colour, taste, feel, and smell). The Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches agree that an objective change occurs of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ, but vary in their use of transubstantiation as a name for the change. Lutherans believe the true body and blood of Christ are really present "in, with, and under" the forms of the bread and wine (sacramental union).[4] Reformed Christians believe in a real spiritual presence of Christ in the Eucharist.[5] Anglican eucharistic theologies universally affirm the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, though Evangelical Anglicans believe that this is a spiritual presence, while Anglo-Catholics hold to a corporeal presence.[6][7] The Plymouth Brethren take the act to be only a symbolic reenactment of the Last Supper and a memorial.[8] As a result of these different understandings, "the Eucharist has been a central issue in the discussions and deliberations of the ecumenical movement."[2]

Eucharist - Wikipedia
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
The Wine is the Blood.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood


Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ***'s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: Genesis.

Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape. Deuteronomy.

And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. Isaiah


And the Bread is the Flesh:

As cattle and sheep, is as flesh and wine:

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh
- Bone - Blood
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for tomorrow we shall die. Isaiah.




 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
The Bread is the Flesh:

As it were fire:

Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. James.

The lowest level:

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Brass - Silver - Gold
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape

To speak of the wine and the bread, is to speak of the high and the low.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
For the Living Bread the Roman Catholic Church uses Unleavened Bread and the Eastern Orthodox Leavened Bread. The difference in the Living Bread contributed to the Great Schism between East and West Christian Traditions.

Hostia_i_komunikanty.JPG


Unleavened bread

"...
Canon Law of the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church mandates the use of unleavened bread for the Host, and unleavened wafers for the communion of the faithful. The more liturgical Protestant churches tend to follow the Latin Catholic practice, whereas others use either unleavened bread or wafers or ordinary (leavened) bread, depending on the traditions of their particular denomination or local usage...."

Unleavened bread - Wikipedia




21-prosphore.jpg


Prosphora


A prosphoron (Greek: πρόσφορον, offering) is a small loaf of leavened bread used in Orthodox Christian[1] and Greek Catholic (Byzantine) liturgies. The plural form is prosphora (πρόσφορα). The term originally meant any offering made to a temple, but in Orthodox Christianity and Byzantine Rite Catholicism it has come to mean specifically the bread offered at the Divine Liturgy (Eucharist).

Prosphora - Wikipedia
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Think
2000 years ago...... People could not believe a "Man is God"!
John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed
.”

NOW
Now today...... People cannot believe "Bread & Wine is God"!
John 6:52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.

Today ..... Christians are Blessed because they believe as Thomas did... Jesus is our God!
Today ...Clearly John 20:29 (above) Those people today who reject Jesus as God "Are NOT Blessed"!
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Does it not make Jesus a subordinate of the whims of the scribes/clergy/church, and smells like they were inventing a new religion than following the path of Jesus in his teachings and deeds, please? Right?
It is a point to ponder, please. Right?

paarsurrey said:
Isn't there every possibility/probability that (anonymous) John had been doctored by the Hellenist Paulines since the time Hellenist Paul heard (might be a devilish) voice posing as Jesus , while Hellenist Paul never was in the company of Jesus to recognize this voice, please? Right?

Think
2000 years ago...... People could not believe a "Man is God"!
John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed
.”

NOW
Now today...... People cannot believe "Bread & Wine is God"!
John 6:52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.

Today ..... Christians are Blessed because they believe as Thomas did... Jesus is our God!
Today ...Clearly John 20:29 (above) Those people today who reject Jesus as God "Are NOT Blessed"!
" John 20:28 , John 6:52 "

Just to warn everybody that the above verses " John 20:28 , John 6:52 " are not from (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, please, right?


Regards
_______________
*Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
World Messianic Bible
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
There is cattle in the corn.

For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Corinthians.

The corn symbol is in the same placement as cattle.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
North - West - East
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine

As the sheep are on the right (East), and the goats are on the left (West).



I have shown Sheep in the East earlier while explaining the wolf with the lamb.

Here:

Like the wolf is with the lamb, the leopard is with the kid goat, and the lion eats straw with the Ox

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Cattle - Goats - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Straw - Dust - Stubble

But each of those animals are also assigned to certain tribe of Israel symbol as its position within the twelve.


Like Joseph as sheep:
Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.

Benjamin as wolf:
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. Genesis


Both in the East:

And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.


And there is a goat in the west:

And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

The goat of the wilderness.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
North - West - East
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Bread - Oil - Wine

In a twelve group explanation there are three gates on the west.

At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali. Ezekiel.


So which tribe is the goat?

Naphtali is not the goat: Naphtali is the deer.

Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words. Genesis.


One of the animals with the goat is a leopard:
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. Isaiah.



I think Gad is the leopard.
Because Gad should not be in the place of cattle with Reuben:

Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle; Numbers

Why abodest thou among the sheepfolds, to hear the bleatings of the flocks? For the divisions of Reuben there were great searchings of heart.Judges.


Gad is different.

And of Gad he said, Blessed be he that enlargeth Gad: he dwelleth as a lion, and teareth the arm with the crown of the head. Deuteronomy.

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. Jeremiah.

(The bible also talks about putting the Ethiopians to the sword).

North - West - East
Spear - Sword - Bow
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Bear - Deer - Horse
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Bread - Oil - Wine

That leaves Asher as the tribe of the goat of the west. The place of Oil.

And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil. Deuteronomy.


So the cattle are in the corn (Reuben), as the sheep are on the right (Joseph), and goats are on the left (Asher).



And the Lion is with Ox (Cattle) in the North.

And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.


And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi. Ezekiel.

North - West - East.
Bread - Oil - Wine.
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Bear - Deer - Horse

Bread = North.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
" John 20:28 , John 6:52 "

Just to warn everybody that the above verses " John 20:28 , John 6:52 " are not from (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, please, right?


Regards
_______________
*Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
World Messianic Bible


John 20:28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”…

The highlighted part is Jesus words.
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
In the bible there is a verse about baking bread with human dung.


"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight". Ezekiel. 4:12


It seems some people think it is a verse about using human dung as the fuel for a fire to cook the bread.

I wonder if anyone thinks it is an ingredient for the bread.
The context seems to be talking about it as an ingredient.


"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. 12.

And the Lord said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them. 13.

14 Then said I, Ah Lord God! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth. 14

Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith. 15"

Ezekiel 4:12-15


Do people not get the point being made of saying these things?

Why human dung was changed to cow dung for the bread.

Perhaps the point is for us to listen more carefully.


I think I can hear something. The layering and weaving of symbols into a pattern.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep


I listen to verses.

Like this:

Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures. Isaiah

And it seems to be correct to me because as the bread increases, the cattle will also increase at the same rate. Because they are both symbols representing the same thing.


But maybe I'm just crazy.

My bread has both man dung and cattle dung in it.
Because bread is something symbolic which is part man, and part cattle, or part man and part lion, or part man and part bear. There are three tribes of bread.


There are different tribes of bread, oil, and wine - which are also part man and part animals.

I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. Ecclessiastes.

Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him. Daniel.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
Further Perspectives on "I Am The Living Bread!":

Bishop Barron on the Mystery of Eating Jesus' Flesh

What is Biblical Communion? Are communion and Passover the same? Q&A
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
John 20:28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”…

The highlighted part is Jesus words.
.
John 20:28 Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

Brian2 Jesus said: Those who believe today as Thomas "My Lord AND my God" are "Blessed"! Those who believe as Thomas are CHRISTIANS!
Christians believe; Jesus is God!
Christians believe in ONE God not many gods!
Christians believe in the "Trinity"!
Christians believe Jesus is a WIZE MAN!

Jesus is a WIZE MAN he established his Church on ROCK 2000 years ago! Jesus did not build on SAND.. Jesus is NOT a fool!
Matthew 7:24
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

Who has put the stone and the sand in a balance?

A stone is heavy, and the sand weighty; but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both. Proverbs.



Joseph gathered the corn as the sand of the sea.

And Joseph gathered corn as the sand of the sea, very much, until he left numbering; for it was without number. Genesis.


Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Sea - River - Stream
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

Fear ye not me? saith the Lord: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it? Jeremiah.


Do people know what a bow and a spear is?

They shall lay hold on bow and spear; they are cruel, and have no mercy; their voice roareth like the sea; and they ride upon horses, set in array as men for war against thee, O daughter of Zion. Jeremiah.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Spear - Sword - Bow
Sea
- River - Stream
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Bear - Deer - Horse

Do people know what a sword is?

Jesus knew:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew.

Think about it.
Peace is the middle way.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Who has put the stone and the sand in a balance?

A stone is heavy, and the sand weighty; but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both. Proverbs.



Joseph gathered the corn as the sand of the sea.

And Joseph gathered corn as the sand of the sea, very much, until he left numbering; for it was without number. Genesis.


Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Sea - River - Stream
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

Fear ye not me? saith the Lord: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it? Jeremiah.


Do people know what a bow and a spear is?

They shall lay hold on bow and spear; they are cruel, and have no mercy; their voice roareth like the sea; and they ride upon horses, set in array as men for war against thee, O daughter of Zion. Jeremiah.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Spear - Sword - Bow
Sea
- River - Stream
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Bear - Deer - Horse

Do people know what a sword is?

Jesus knew:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew.

Think about it.
Peace is the middle way.
.
WonderingWorrier good to meet you...
I reply... You are running down rabbit trails...
Scriptures tell you... Jesus built his Church on "Rock"! They also tell you a Fool builds on sand! To think the building Jesus established failed is to call Jesus the Fool!
The structure built on ROCK will not fail! To believe that the Church needs to be re-Formed is to believe it failed that somehow Satan overpowered Jesus and Satan took the body of Jesus from Jesus. It is believing Jesus lied and is the fool!
The ONLY Church established by Jesus 2000 years ago is still here alive and well!
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
.
WonderingWorrier good to meet you...
I reply... You are running down rabbit trails...
Scriptures tell you... Jesus built his Church on "Rock"! They also tell you a Fool builds on sand! To think the building Jesus established failed is to call Jesus the Fool!
The structure built on ROCK will not fail! To believe that the Church needs to be re-Formed is to believe it failed that somehow Satan overpowered Jesus and Satan took the body of Jesus from Jesus. It is believing Jesus lied and is the fool!
The ONLY Church established by Jesus 2000 years ago is still here alive and well!

Good to meet you too.

I think a wise man knows that he is not wise.
Because there are always more points of view to consider (Wisdom).
So the so-called wise man will listen carefully to a so-called fool.

What does scripture tell us.

It says people cant hear the words:
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. John.

So where/what is the rock?

Scriptures asks that question:
Shall horses run upon the rock? will one plow there with oxen? for ye have turned judgment into gall, and the fruit of righteousness into hemlock: Amos.

I think it asks is it high Group3, or is it low Group1?

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Bear - Deer - Horse


Scriptures tells an answer:


The rock of the Wilderness:

He clave the rocks in the wilderness, and gave them drink as out of the great depths. Psalm.


The rock of the Goats:

Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve? Job.


The rock of the River, the rock of the Oil:

When I washed my steps with butter, and the rock poured me out rivers of oil; Job.

Group1 - Group2 - Group3
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Sea - River - Stream
Corn - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Bear - Deer - Horse

So it seems clear to me that the Corn is as the Sand.

As I have shown you.

Joseph gathered the corn as the sand of the sea.

And Joseph gathered corn as the sand of the sea, very much, until he left numbering; for it was without number. Genesis.


And as I have now shown you the Oil is as the Rock.


So according to scripture Corn is as Sand, Oil is as Rock.

As in the corn, oil, and wine:

That people couldnt hear:
And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel. Hosea.

There is a clear difference between sand and rock.
It is the difference between corn, and oil.
 
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