I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me. (John 10:9, 14:6)

[tayla]

No it isn't central to Christian belief!

I suppose we have to distinguish between the historical Christian teaching, and other kinds of Christian teaching. Certainly the Nicene Creed represents the first.

 

[Faithofchristian]

That Jesus is God in the flesh is key and central to our Christian belief, which makes Christianity different to other Abrahamic religions.

According to Christians, the centrality of Christ goes without saying; which is why they believe Jesus is far more important than any other central figure in Islam and Judaism.

Given that this is a key tenet in Christianity, why do some Christians deny the critical role of Jesus as the Son of God who will be God's lawful and supreme judge on the day of Final Reckoning?

Is it for fear that some Christians will deny the key article of faith that Jesus will have power and authority to send God's enemies and sinful people to eternal destruction on the day of judgement? (Revelation 20:15).

You may not like or approve of what I've said, but what are you going to do about it?

Or perhaps you should abandon Christianity for some other religion -- because no Christian can ever deny the key and critical role of Jesus as gate keeper to God's kingdom? (John 5:22-23, 5:27-30, 10:9, 14:6; Revelation 20:11-15).

You know, I believe you have
( John 5:22-23, 5:27-30, 10:9, 14:6;
Revelation 20:11-15. All confused.

First while Jesus was here on earth, Jesus judged no man.
Now after the death and Resurrection of Jesus, Now Jesus will Judge every man according to what they have done in the flesh. At his Judgment seat, Romans 14:10.

Now as for Revelation 20:11-15,
In verse 11 here we find the
( Great White Throne Judgement ) this being the Great White Throne Judgemen of God's.

You see the The Great White Throne Judgement, is when God will Judge everyone according to the spirit.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: But rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" Matthew 10:28.
What Jesus is talking about here, is the
Great White Throne Judgement of God.
When God shall destroy the soul, in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15.


As for Revelation 20:11-15, that you had given, this all pertains to the Great White Throne Judgement of God, When God will judge everyone according to what they have done in the spirit.
You see there are two Judgements that are taking place, The first judgement is when Christ Jesus will Judge everyone according to what they have done in the flesh.This being the judgement seat of Christ Jesus,
Romans 14:10,
And then you have The Great White Throne Judgement of God's, Revelation 20:11-15.

When Christ Jesus returns to the earth, every knee shall bow to Jesus, Romans 14:11.
And at this time, is when every eye shall see Christ Jesus, Revelation 1:7.

Then at The Great White Throne Judgement, every tongue shall confess to God,
Romans 14:11.

You see Romans 14:10 and Romans 14:11, are two folded, one is the judgement seat of Christ Jesus and the other is The Great White Throne Judgement of God's.
Two different judgements taking place.

The first half of Romans 14:11, ( For as it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me) This all takes place at Jesus 2nd coming to earth. That every knee shall bow to Jesus. And at this time the judgement seat of Christ Jesus takes place. To judge everyone according to what they have done in the flesh body.

And then you have The Great White Throne Judgement, is when God will judge everyone according to what they have done in the spirit.
( and every tongue shall confess
to God, Romans 14:11 )
You see every tongue shall confess to God, This being The Great White Throne Judgement of God's. That every tongue shall confess to God.


Do you understand Revelation 20:13
( And the sea gave up the dead which were in it)
What does this mean ?
What does the sea represents according to the book of Revelation.
And who does the dead represent ?

 

[Shadow Link]

"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me. (John 10:9, 14:6)"

The ancients often taught lessons through fables. This text comes across kinda like an inverted fable using a person. The lesson of it all would be "get to wisdom."

 

[Twilight Hue]

That Jesus is God in the flesh is key and central to our Christian belief, which makes Christianity different to other Abrahamic religions.

According to Christians, the centrality of Christ goes without saying; which is why they believe Jesus is far more important than any other central figure in Islam and Judaism.

Given that this is a key tenet in Christianity, why do some Christians deny the critical role of Jesus as the Son of God who will be God's lawful and supreme judge on the day of Final Reckoning?

Is it for fear that some Christians will deny the key article of faith that Jesus will have power and authority to send God's enemies and sinful people to eternal destruction on the day of judgement? (Revelation 20:15).

You may not like or approve of what I've said, but what are you going to do about it?

Or perhaps you should abandon Christianity for some other religion -- because no Christian can ever deny the key and critical role of Jesus as gate keeper to God's kingdom? (John 5:22-23, 5:27-30, 10:9, 14:6; Revelation 20:11-15).

It really sucks to be a Christian.

Glad I have the god-given ability of free will to opt out without penalty. Giving God had given me choices to leave and all, no doubt would make me completely exempt from great hell fire and brimstone for which if a person had free will, would have nothing to fear. Because they have you know.... free will. God would never incur wrath on somebody with free will.

 

[Faithofchristian]

It really sucks to be a Christian.

Glad I have the god-given ability of free will to opt out without penalty. Giving God had given me choices to leave and all, no doubt would make me completely exempt from great hell fire and brimstone for which if a person had free will, would have nothing to fear. Because they have you know.... free will. God would never incur wrath on somebody with free will.

You know what, if you take a closer look at Revelation 20:15 --"And whosoever was not found written in the book of Life was cast into the lake of fire"

The reason why people are being cast into the lake of fire, is because they were caught worshipping the AntiChrist.
Whether Christians knows this or not, many Christians will be caught worshipping the AntiChrist. All because they are being deceived and don't even know it.
Many Christians are taught that Jesus will Rapture them out, before the tribulation.

But this is a false teaching of man's.

Christ Jesus can not come until the last Prophecy of Revelation is fulfilled.
Which brings about the return of Christ Jesus.
By the time the last Prophecy of Revelation happens, The tribulation is over.
So what good is the Rapture going to do.

Many Christians don't even know that before Christ returns, Satan will come first, deceving by deception people into believing that he is Christ Jesus, and many Christians themselves will be deceived into believing Satan is Christ Jesus that has come to Rapture them out.

Therefore Christians will be caught in worshipping Satan. Thereby will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Faithofchristian]

That Jesus is God in the flesh is key and central to our Christian belief, which makes Christianity different to other Abrahamic religions.

According to Christians, the centrality of Christ goes without saying; which is why they believe Jesus is far more important than any other central figure in Islam and Judaism.

Given that this is a key tenet in Christianity, why do some Christians deny the critical role of Jesus as the Son of God who will be God's lawful and supreme judge on the day of Final Reckoning?

Is it for fear that some Christians will deny the key article of faith that Jesus will have power and authority to send God's enemies and sinful people to eternal destruction on the day of judgement? (Revelation 20:15).

You may not like or approve of what I've said, but what are you going to do about it?

Or perhaps you should abandon Christianity for some other religion -- because no Christian can ever deny the key and critical role of Jesus as gate keeper to God's kingdom? (John 5:22-23, 5:27-30, 10:9, 14:6; Revelation 20:11-15).

Well first there are two Judgements that takes place, But when does the Judgement seat of Christ Jesus takes place and what does it consist of?
What is the Judgement of God, When does this take place and what does it consist of

 

[Sleeppy]

A simple question: when did Jesus EVER call himself God in the flesh?

I would think if that was his most important, and "key tenent" he would mention it, especially being God.. But, nope.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

A simple question: when did Jesus EVER call himself God in the flesh?

I would think if that was his most important, and "key tenent" he would mention it, especially being God.. But, nope.

He said destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. He was speaking of the temple of his body. That would be kind of hard to do wouldn't it? Later scriptures say God raised the body.

He said he was before Abraham. How? That flesh wasn't before Abraham, but the Spirit of God dwelling in that fleshly body was.

If it wasn't regarding the Messiah, When was God manifest in the flesh?

What about when he was asked to show them the Father ( that would be God), and he said, Have I been so long time with you, and you still don't know me? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father. How sayest thou show us the Father?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

You know, I believe you have
( John 5:22-23, 5:27-30, 10:9, 14:6;
Revelation 20:11-15. All confused.

First while Jesus was here on earth, Jesus judged no man.
Now after the death and Resurrection of Jesus, Now Jesus will Judge every man according to what they have done in the flesh. At his Judgment seat, Romans 14:10.

Now as for Revelation 20:11-15,
In verse 11 here we find the
( Great White Throne Judgement ) this being the Great White Throne Judgemen of God's.

You see the The Great White Throne Judgement, is when God will Judge everyone according to the spirit.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: But rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" Matthew 10:28.
What Jesus is talking about here, is the
Great White Throne Judgement of God.
When God shall destroy the soul, in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15.


As for Revelation 20:11-15, that you had given, this all pertains to the Great White Throne Judgement of God, When God will judge everyone according to what they have done in the spirit.
You see there are two Judgements that are taking place, The first judgement is when Christ Jesus will Judge everyone according to what they have done in the flesh.This being the judgement seat of Christ Jesus,
Romans 14:10,
And then you have The Great White Throne Judgement of God's, Revelation 20:11-15.

When Christ Jesus returns to the earth, every knee shall bow to Jesus, Romans 14:11.
And at this time, is when every eye shall see Christ Jesus, Revelation 1:7.

Then at The Great White Throne Judgement, every tongue shall confess to God,
Romans 14:11.

You see Romans 14:10 and Romans 14:11, are two folded, one is the judgement seat of Christ Jesus and the other is The Great White Throne Judgement of God's.
Two different judgements taking place.

The first half of Romans 14:11, ( For as it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me) This all takes place at Jesus 2nd coming to earth. That every knee shall bow to Jesus. And at this time the judgement seat of Christ Jesus takes place. To judge everyone according to what they have done in the flesh body.

And then you have The Great White Throne Judgement, is when God will judge everyone according to what they have done in the spirit.
( and every tongue shall confess
to God, Romans 14:11 )
You see every tongue shall confess to God, This being The Great White Throne Judgement of God's. That every tongue shall confess to God.


Do you understand Revelation 20:13
( And the sea gave up the dead which were in it)
What does this mean ?
What does the sea represents according to the book of Revelation.
And who does the dead represent ?

Only one day of Judgement for mankind - Matthew 25:31-46 - When he returns and judges, it is either eternal life or everlasting punishment. The judgement in Revelation is just another depiction of the same judgement.

I would also like to point out that Romans 14:11, is quoting an OT verse that says, For it is written, As I live, saith YHWH, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So how does that fit in with what you have been saying it means? You referenced Romans 14:11 saying that was when they would bow to the Messiah.

So you either have to backpedal on what you are saying it means, or acknowledge that the Messiah was YHWH manifest in the flesh?

 

[Sleeppy]

He said destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. He was speaking of the temple of his body. That would be kind of hard to do wouldn't it? Later scriptures say God raised the body.

He said he was before Abraham. How? That flesh wasn't before Abraham, but the Spirit of God dwelling in that fleshly body was.

If it wasn't regarding the Messiah, When was God manifest in the flesh?

What about when he was asked to show them the Father ( that would be God), and he said, Have I been so long time with you, and you still don't know me? If you have seen me you have seen the Father. How sayest thou show us the Father?

1) John 10:17-18

Because of this does the Father love me, because I lay down my life, that again I may take it; no one does take it from me, but I lay it down of myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from my Father.

--

You have the same authority, if you are able to believe it.

2) He was not referring to his flesh, nor was he speaking of himself, but the Son of Man spoke through him. The Son of Man is also with you. But, you have not known that the Son of Man speaks all truth in your stead.


John 20:17
Say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.

3) God is manifest in all things, being the Father of creation. By His Word all things came to be; all came forth out of Him.

4) James 1:17
Every good giving, and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the lights, with whom is no variation, or shadow of turning.

The Father is Spirit. He is only, and always, seen in the good things done through His creation.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

1) John 10:17-18

Because of this does the Father love me, because I lay down my life, that again I may take it; no one does take it from me, but I lay it down of myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from my Father.

--

You have the same authority, if you are able to believe it.

2) He was not referring to his flesh, nor was he speaking of himself, but the Son of Man spoke through him. The Son of Man is also with you. But, you have not known that the Son of Man speaks all truth in your stead.


John 20:17
Say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.

3) God is manifest in all things, being the Father of creation. By His Word all things came to be; all came forth out of Him.

4) James 1:17
Every good giving, and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the lights, with whom is no variation, or shadow of turning.

The Father is Spirit. He is only, and always, seen in the good things done through His creation.

Are these answers to my questions? The flesh was not God. God was dwelling in the body.

The fulness of the Godhead dwells in him bodily. Colossians 2:9
He said the Father that dwelleth in me he does the works. John 14:10
God was in Messiah, reconciling the world unto himself. 2 Corinthians 5:19

 

[Sleeppy]

Are these answers to my questions? The flesh was not God. God was dwelling in the body.

The fulness of the Godhead dwells in him bodily. Colossians 2:9
He said the Father that dwelleth in me he does the works. John 14:10
God was in Messiah, reconciling the world unto himself. 2 Corinthians 5:19

Not Jesus' words. Revelation is your best bet. But, I would stay away from it. It's more trouble than what it's worth.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Not Jesus' words. Revelation is your best bet. But, I would stay away from it. It's more trouble than what it's worth.

What do you mean? Are you saying you don't accept the scriptures I used?

 

[Sleeppy]

What do you mean? Are you saying you don't accept the scriptures I used?

No. I stick to the Gospels, for the most part. Even then, I always try to test the spirits therein. -- The truth is always reproducible. True prophecy always reemerges. Likewise, God is always anointing His children; there were many messiahs, all of them of singular purpose.

 

[Desert Snake]

Are these answers to my questions? The flesh was not God. God was dwelling in the body.

The fulness of the Godhead dwells in him bodily. Colossians 2:9
He said the Father that dwelleth in me he does the works. John 14:10
God was in Messiah, reconciling the world unto himself. 2 Corinthians 5:19

You are going to encounter the problem, of a 'possession', scenario, if you use that style of interpretation, for Scripture, and not what Jesus said.

Jesus said that the father is in Him, and He in the father.

John 14:11

 

[Desert Snake]

I suppose we have to distinguish between the historical Christian teaching, and other kinds of Christian teaching. Certainly the Nicene Creed represents the first.

There is a church, in the Bible. It is called 'The Church of God'.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

No. I stick to the Gospels, for the most part. Even then, I always try to test the spirits therein. -- The truth is always reproducible. True prophecy always reemerges. Likewise, God is always anointing His children; there were many messiahs, all of them of singular purpose.

Not much we can discuss, if you don't accept all of the word of God. He said all scripture was given by inspiration of God, and man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. If you show where something was changed from the original, or added, or a bad translation, that would be different.

 

[Sleeppy]

Not much we can discuss, if you don't accept all of the word of God. He said all scripture was given by inspiration of God, and man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God. If you show where something was changed from the original, or added, or a bad translation, that would be different.

You have not verified that. But if you believed it, you would test the spirits to see what is, and is not verified of God.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

You are going to encounter the problem, of a 'possession', scenario, if you use that style of interpretation, for Scripture, and not what Jesus said.

Jesus said that the father is in Him, and He in the father.

John 14:11

Sorry, but John 14:10 was what the Messiah said. And Isaiah 9:6 was prophecy showing that the son that would be born, would also be the mighty God, and the everlasting Father.

So somehow this has to be true. When asked to show them the Father, what did he say? He also said I and my Father are one. He also said no one knows the Father but the son, and no one knows the son but the Father, and he to whomsoever he chooses to reveal him.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

You have not verified that. But if you believed it, you would test the spirits to see what is, and is not verified of God.

Please explain what you mean.