The concept of the necessity of a 'sacrifice' is an ancient world view of the relationship between God and humanity, and passes away as spiritual cultures mature all over the world in history through progressive Revelation to spiritual symbolism.
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"I am the way"
- Thread starter Neuropteron
- Start date
The concept of the necessity of a 'sacrifice' is an ancient world view of the relationship between God and humanity, and passes away as spiritual cultures mature all over the world in history through progressive Revelation to spiritual symbolism.
Komori
Member
Speaking from my own background, for those who have immersed themselves in the Islamic esoteric tradition, there is no conflict whatsoever between these statements of Jesus expressing this kind of 'high Christology' and the theology of Islam. When we look at texts such as the Gospel of John—and it is depressing that Christianity has taken such a route where this kind of interpretation in is diminished—the best interpretation, I think, is one along Neoplatonic lines. Take for example, the opening to the first chapter of John:
When Jesus is speaking in such terms, calling himself the way, the only way, etc., etc., he is not speaking in his own name or as an individual but as what Henry Corbin calls "the Eternal Imām." He is attesting to an eternal spiritual reality which is manifest in all the prophets of God. Thus the Qur'an says, "We make no distinction between any of His messengers" (2:285). Esoteric Islam, as such, has no problem with this kind of stuff. For example, in Imām 'Alī's Khuṭba al-bayān he he makes many of these kind of "I am ..." statements that are found in the Gospels.
What is being expressed here, rather than the kind of incarnationist Trinitarianism being propagated by Christians today is actually a lot more nuanced and, really, a very succinct Neoplatonist restatement of Genesis 1 where God, the One, originates the nous ("the one and only Son, who came from the Father"), which is a synonym to logos, and which in turn creates all things ("the world was made through him.") In Arabic, the word is al-'Aql.
When Jesus is speaking in such terms, calling himself the way, the only way, etc., etc., he is not speaking in his own name or as an individual but as what Henry Corbin calls "the Eternal Imām." He is attesting to an eternal spiritual reality which is manifest in all the prophets of God. Thus the Qur'an says, "We make no distinction between any of His messengers" (2:285). Esoteric Islam, as such, has no problem with this kind of stuff. For example, in Imām 'Alī's Khuṭba al-bayān he he makes many of these kind of "I am ..." statements that are found in the Gospels.
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The Anointed
Well-Known Member
Click to expand...
If you had said, the extension of this reasoning based on the original context of the Hebrew text would be that Jesus Christ was the bearer of the Word of God, and spiritually the Son of God and not the Roman view of the God incarnate in the belief of the Roman Trinity.
Correct! Jesus was the chosen heir and successor of the 'SON OF MAN', who willing pays the blood price for the flesh in which he developed as we all must do.
For Just as man developed within the bodies of our animal ancestors, so too , 'The Son of Man', develops
within the body of mankind
Audie
Veteran Member
Really?
You can keep making that claim over and over,
until you really believe it, but it wont ever become
true.
Pretending it is true just kills anything else you
have to say.
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MJFlores
Well-Known Member
I believe it is simple
it is not too demanding
I don't see any complicated rituals, philosophical calisthenics nor you have to use calculus
all you need
is to find Jesus.
Jesus claimed that he was that path.(John 14:6) as you wrote.
so where is that path?
But Jesus is seated at the right hand of God as the Bible says. Luke 22:69
And that would be way way up that even NASA couldn't reach
So how do we accomplish the goal to walk on that path?
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I think, "Amen!"
exchemist
Veteran Member
What none of these verses explains is what is actually meant by Jesus being the "way", the "truth" and the "life". Various interpretations of that are possible, though I have no doubt you are wedded to a particular one that you have been taught.
So did Buddha make the same claim but 500 years earlier.
This indeed is the Way—there is no other—for the purification of one’s vision. Follow this Way. I have taught you the Way… making the effort is your affair. – Gautama Buddha, Dhammapada vs. 274-276.
And Krishna also even much earlier before that.
I am the Way, and the Master who watches in silence; thy friend and thy shelter, and thy abode of peace. I am the beginning and the middle and the end of all things; their seed of Eternity, their Treasure supreme. – Krishna, Bhagavad Gita 9:16-18.
Scan the entire Bible and you will not find one Word denying that both Buddha and Krishna were the Way also.
Remember, Jesus just said He was the Way but did not say He was the ONLY way.
God also spoke to Moses.
And the Lord spoke unto Moses face to face, as a man speaks unto his friend. – Exodus 33:11.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Jesus said "I AM the way"
In my opinion this means:
"I AM" ... is the way
Vedanta also teaches about "Who AM I"
All religions have similar teaching in them
Also great philosophers came to this conclusion
So it is NOT only through Jesus that one can achieve liberation
Any path dealing with Self Realisation can lead one to Self Realisation
Beautifully explained. Thank you. You’ve enlightened me so much with such a profound answer.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Jesus said "I AM the way"
To declare that it's ONLY through Jesus one can achieve this means:
1) You denigrate the belief system of others
2) You "play down" and belittle feelings and/or rituals of others
Both are quite "inhuman", so definitely not a Divine Inspiration
A little research in Vedanta will show that the question "Who AM I" the key is to Self Realisation
So one need little creativity to understand what Jesus must have meant by "I AM the way"
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- He never said there is no other way.
- He was addressing the people of his time and place.
- They lost their connection to God.
- He found a way to restore that connection.
- "No one comes to the Father but through me"... they couldn't do it on their own, but through his teachings.
I don't believe in sin, only actions that have their karmic consequences.
Nah, I don't believe he meant that. He taught that prayer should be a private and secret thing between the person and God.
Well now, that's a breath of fresh air to read.
See my points 1-5 above.
love covers all sins.
Unconditional love is the WAY, it is not to the left, nor to the right.
Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.
you are to pray in the Father's name; which is exodus 3:14 I AM and there is no other Isaiah 45:14, because I AM that i am.
What do you think of people who lived in places where these tales have never been heard? So, either people who lived before Jesus, or people who lived after Jesus but they have never been reached by any missionary.
How will they be judged?
Ciao
- viole
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
Have you read John 14:6?
sealchan
Well-Known Member
I think that Jesus is that which within ourselves seeks to transcend the needs of the body and identify with something higher though based on that body. Jesus is a name which an individual may use to relate to that higher reality.
One may also, in the way of the patriarchs in Genesis, obtain one's own name for access to God. This is part and parcel of the similar metaphor of undergoing the "second birth".
There is a valid psychological experience of this inner transformation of the human personality that is, perhaps, something that cannot be undone and is final and complete once it happens for someone. However, the language of the New Testament I take to be but one view on the matter and any claims that Jesus literally is the only way to God are false in a literal and exclusive sense.
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
Please explain to me any difference in what you have written above and the following:
Once you take that view - you are at the very fringes of the Abrahamic belief if not actually coloring outside the lines
sealchan
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't theoretically disagree with the quote which seems to argue for non-exclusivity of a particular faith. The more I learn about the Buddha or Krishna the more I find my own experience of that truth.
I hold a lot of basic principles that put me somewhat on the fringe of Abrahamic faith but with pastors like Spong the center and its periphery may be shifting...
Yes. But Jesus is not the only One Who says this.
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
I do not believe exclusivity - like in that statement - is claimed elsewhere
Happy to be corrected if you have the original sources to provide
Krishna was an incarnation of Vishnu - He was the container of the entire universe
It is one thing for an entity to say "I am the Universe" - it is completely different for another to say "The only way to that universe (father) is through me" -
What does "No one comes thru to my father but thru me" mean? Are you that dense or are you prevaricating on purpose?
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