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I and the father are one.

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The following is from a Shiite brother (not me):

Salaam Aleikum,

Famous Gospel verse from John 10:30

I and the Father are one.

But it does not stop here, the most crucial part is the next verses where Jesus (عليه السلام) will clarify what does he mean by it.

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

- Jesus (عليه السلام) was referring to Psalms 82:6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Here You are Gods and Sons of the Most High does not mean literal as Gods or that God literal Sons. Rather this means that they are agents of God, who represent the message and the commandments and the way that God have chosen for humankind. Their work/actions would be as what God want them to work/act.

I and The Father are one

This is equivalent in the Qur'an when God says:

He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian. 4:80

Your friend was not misguided nor was he misled, nor does he speak out of personal desire. It is but an inspiration being inspired. 53:2-4

Another interesting to notice is the how Jews reacted on the matter. They almost right away took the stone and wanted to kill him, because they thought that he is saying that Jesus and God are One in Essence. Jesus denies it and explained them by referring the psalms 82:6 which is understood by jews clearly.

Qur'an want to clarify and make sure that Psalms 82:6 does not mean to take it literally but as in figurative:

Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. 23:91
 

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I want to comment: "gods" can also be translated as exalted ones.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The following is from a Shiite brother (not me):

Salaam Aleikum,

Famous Gospel verse from John 10:30

I and the Father are one.

But it does not stop here, the most crucial part is the next verses where Jesus (عليه السلام) will clarify what does he mean by it.

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

- Jesus (عليه السلام) was referring to Psalms 82:6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Here You are Gods and Sons of the Most High does not mean literal as Gods or that God literal Sons. Rather this means that they are agents of God, who represent the message and the commandments and the way that God have chosen for humankind. Their work/actions would be as what God want them to work/act.

I and The Father are one

This is equivalent in the Qur'an when God says:

He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian. 4:80

Your friend was not misguided nor was he misled, nor does he speak out of personal desire. It is but an inspiration being inspired. 53:2-4

Another interesting to notice is the how Jews reacted on the matter. They almost right away took the stone and wanted to kill him, because they thought that he is saying that Jesus and God are One in Essence. Jesus denies it and explained them by referring the psalms 82:6 which is understood by jews clearly.

Qur'an want to clarify and make sure that Psalms 82:6 does not mean to take it literally but as in figurative:

Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. 23:91
In order to understand this, as Jesus said as recorded in the holy Bible, we would also have to recognize that he came from heaven and had been in heaven, but was not when he was on the earth. Salaam.
 

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In order to understand this, as Jesus said as recorded in the holy Bible, we would also have to recognize that he came from heaven and had been in heaven, but was not when he was on the earth. Salaam.

I think it's clear, that trinity was never meant by Jesus by Jesus' own words here. People were per his own words taking his words out of context, while, they should be understood the same way Jews understood other words not to mean polytheistic things.
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
they should be understood the same way Jews understood other words not to mean polytheistic things.
Unless Jesus from the book of John was no longer practicing Judaism.
 

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Unless Jesus from the book of John was no longer practicing Judaism.

I'm just saying, per his own words, what he meant by being God's son, was not a polytheistic equation of himself on the level of God. It was how Jews understood similar phrases of exalted ones of the past. And similarly, when he says God and him are one. He didn't mean in trinity way. This is clear per his owns, they were decontextualizing him.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I think it's clear, that trinity was never meant by Jesus by Jesus' own words here. People were per his own words taking his words out of context, while, they should be understood the same way Jews understood other words not to mean polytheistic things.
Jesus also assailed the religious leaders for their false teachings.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I'm just saying, per his own words, what he meant by being God's son, was not a polytheistic equation of himself on the level of God. It was how Jews understood similar phrases of exalted ones of the past. And similarly, when he says God and him are one. He didn't mean in trinity way. This is clear per his owns, they were decontextualizing him.
John 10:9 I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

"I am the gate" + "I give eternal life" + "I and The Father are one" = polytheism.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I want to comment: "gods" can also be translated as exalted ones.
God in a way does mean one who is exalted. And of course in many cases, people are exalted, held on high, followed. The Jews were given the Law and were supposed to have followed it. On another thread, the point was brought out that IF they were to obey the Law, they would be a nation of kings and priests. "Now if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, you will be My treasured possession out of all the nations—for the whole earth is Mine. 6And unto Me you shall be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to speak to the Israelites.” 7So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him.…" Exodus 19.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
True, but irrelevant, that he defended his case here. He is saying his expressions should be seen like past Prophetic words.
My point is that he knew the scriptures or law was being twisted by those who were supposed to have knowledge, and so when he was persecuted, it wasn't because his persecutors were worshippers of God, the One that Jesus prayed to. He had his disciples who followed him. And there was intense persecution from many who also claimed to worship God. When he said he was one with the Father, the Bible says the Jews didn't like it.
John chapter 10, "My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.” 31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him.…" (They didn't like his statements, did they?)
 

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Do the Imans give eternal life?

God through Imams (a) gives eternal life, for sure. The Imams (a) giving eternal life, they do so by God's permission. They can't save or guide except with his permission. This is what Isa (a) expressed, that he is the means and light of God so long as he is in this world, and God and him are one in that sense.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
God through Imams (a) gives eternal life, for sure. The Imams (a) giving eternal life, they do so by God's permission. They can't save or guide except with his permission. This is what Isa (a) expressed, that he is the means and light of God so long as he is in this world, and God and him are one in that sense.
"God through Imams" Is different. Do you have any quotes from Imams saying "I give eternal life"?
 

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"God through Imams" Is different. Do you have any quotes from Imams saying "I give eternal life"?

Yes we do. And in fact, Yahya (John was about flower of "life") in Arabic means "who gives life".
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, to me Gospels are expressed all by Imams (a) words, and Imams (a) even said things in more hyperbola parables, like "we have states with God where he is us and we are him".
(Whatever...have a nice day.)
 
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