I and the father are one.

[Truth in love]

The following is from a Shiite brother (not me):

Salaam Aleikum,

Famous Gospel verse from John 10:30

I and the Father are one.

But it does not stop here, the most crucial part is the next verses where Jesus (عليه السلام) will clarify what does he mean by it.

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

- Jesus (عليه السلام) was referring to Psalms 82:6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Here You are Gods and Sons of the Most High does not mean literal as Gods or that God literal Sons. Rather this means that they are agents of God, who represent the message and the commandments and the way that God have chosen for humankind. Their work/actions would be as what God want them to work/act.

I and The Father are one

This is equivalent in the Qur'an when God says:

He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian. 4:80

Your friend was not misguided nor was he misled, nor does he speak out of personal desire. It is but an inspiration being inspired. 53:2-4

Another interesting to notice is the how Jews reacted on the matter. They almost right away took the stone and wanted to kill him, because they thought that he is saying that Jesus and God are One in Essence. Jesus denies it and explained them by referring the psalms 82:6 which is understood by jews clearly.

Qur'an want to clarify and make sure that Psalms 82:6 does not mean to take it literally but as in figurative:

Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. 23:91

I may well be alone in this view here but hear goes.


Ye are gods, children of the most High, Ps. 82:6.
We are the offspring of God, Acts 17:29.
Be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, Heb. 12:9.

be one, as we are John 17:11
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2
heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17.

I’ll stand with what the Bible says. We are God’s children with great potential.

 

[Clara Tea]

The following is from a Shiite brother (not me):

Salaam Aleikum,

Famous Gospel verse from John 10:30

I and the Father are one.

But it does not stop here, the most crucial part is the next verses where Jesus (عليه السلام) will clarify what does he mean by it.

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

- Jesus (عليه السلام) was referring to Psalms 82:6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Here You are Gods and Sons of the Most High does not mean literal as Gods or that God literal Sons. Rather this means that they are agents of God, who represent the message and the commandments and the way that God have chosen for humankind. Their work/actions would be as what God want them to work/act.

I and The Father are one

This is equivalent in the Qur'an when God says:

He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian. 4:80

Your friend was not misguided nor was he misled, nor does he speak out of personal desire. It is but an inspiration being inspired. 53:2-4

Another interesting to notice is the how Jews reacted on the matter. They almost right away took the stone and wanted to kill him, because they thought that he is saying that Jesus and God are One in Essence. Jesus denies it and explained them by referring the psalms 82:6 which is understood by jews clearly.

Qur'an want to clarify and make sure that Psalms 82:6 does not mean to take it literally but as in figurative:

Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. 23:91

Most people have souls. Souls are from God and are part of God. Therefore everyone is one with the father. However, some souls will be separated and go to hell. Some souls will make it to heaven (like Lucifer), and be cast to hell.

 

[Clara Tea]

Mohammad (s) has Twelve to succeed his position and Fatima (a) shares his spiritual station. However, while all of them are seen together in one mission, it's the current Imam (leader) who is the light of God and the door of God. You have to recognize the current leader and he is the door of God but of course, the Mahdi is connected with Fatima and his Twelve Captains (starting with Mohammad (s) the Nabi, and ending with Hassan Al-Askari). They are with him.

Same way, we see in Gospels, Moses (a) is with him, Elijah (a) is with him. Moses (a) obviously the founder is to show, people claiming connection to Moses (a) are in fact disconnected while disciples would see him with Jesus (a). Elijah (a) specifically was because his life was preserved and since Jesus (a) was heading to heaven, Elijah (a) came from heaven to earth, to hold position of light and holy spirit, till Mohammad (s). And Mohammad (s) as the Prophet who John was not, nor was John the Messiah nor Elijah, per his own words, to me is obvious. Comforter or praised/thanked one however you want to translate, Mohammad (s) is clearly in the Gospels to me.

It's part of all this word games from Trinity to other things, that people can't see the Gospels for what it is.

I agree that it appears that God is playing some kind of word game. For example, the Nazis did "not see." (alibi).

 

[firedragon]

I see figurative verses are common in the Bible and the Quran.

Absolutely bogus. Sorry but you are just making arbitrary statements without studying a single book.

Don't do this.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Absolutely bogus. Sorry but you are just making arbitrary statements without studying a single book.

Don't do this.

Luckily I would rather listen to Baha'u'llah on these issues.

Regards Tony

 

[RestlessSoul]

Unless Jesus from the book of John was no longer practicing Judaism.

John’s Gospel, probably more so than the others, appears to take some pains to place the message of Jesus in the literary context of the Tanakh. On the other hand, if the Gospels were written by observant Jews, one might wonder why they were written in Koine Greek (or Aramaic)

 

[firedragon]

The following is from a Shiite brother (not me):

Salaam Aleikum,

Famous Gospel verse from John 10:30

I and the Father are one.

But it does not stop here, the most crucial part is the next verses where Jesus (عليه السلام) will clarify what does he mean by it.

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

- Jesus (عليه السلام) was referring to Psalms 82:6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Here You are Gods and Sons of the Most High does not mean literal as Gods or that God literal Sons. Rather this means that they are agents of God, who represent the message and the commandments and the way that God have chosen for humankind. Their work/actions would be as what God want them to work/act.

I and The Father are one

This is equivalent in the Qur'an when God says:

He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian. 4:80

Your friend was not misguided nor was he misled, nor does he speak out of personal desire. It is but an inspiration being inspired. 53:2-4

Another interesting to notice is the how Jews reacted on the matter. They almost right away took the stone and wanted to kill him, because they thought that he is saying that Jesus and God are One in Essence. Jesus denies it and explained them by referring the psalms 82:6 which is understood by jews clearly.

Qur'an want to clarify and make sure that Psalms 82:6 does not mean to take it literally but as in figurative:

Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. 23:91

Bro. How do you know Jesus ever had this encounter?

 

[firedragon]

Luckily I would rather listen to Baha'u'llah on these issues.

Regards Tony

Yeah. Luckily I would rather read the text and not be a hypocrite in making bogus claims with no study of anything.

 

[stvdv]

I’ll stand with what the Bible says. We are God’s children with great potential

I agree with that. My Master adressed the gathering usually with "embodiments of the Divine", a good reminder to not give up our Quest, until we reach the end

 

[YoursTrue]

I feel OK about it. Jesus in John wasn't a liar. His miracles require strict adherence to truthful words. God doesn't tolerate false words. Proverbs 12:22.

The comments lead me to the following: (John 18, conversation with Pontius Pilate and Jesus) Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now My kingdom is not of this realm.” 37“Then You are a king!” Pilate said. “You say that I am a king,” Jesus answered. “For this reason I was born and have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to My voice.” 38“What is truth?” Pilate asked. And having said this, he went out again to the Jews and told them, “I find no basis for a charge against Him."
My reaction: wow. Bu it takes time and strength and help from God to get to understanding.

 

[Link]

Salam

أَوَمَنْ كَانَ مَيْتًا فَأَحْيَيْنَاهُ وَجَعَلْنَا لَهُ نُورًا يَمْشِي بِهِ فِي النَّاسِ كَمَنْ مَثَلُهُ فِي الظُّلُمَاتِ لَيْسَ بِخَارِجٍ مِنْهَا ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ زُيِّنَ لِلْكَافِرِينَ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ | Is he who was lifeless, then We gave him life and provided him with a light by which he walks among the people, like one who dwells in a manifold darkness which he cannot leave? To the faithless is thus presented as decorous what they have been doing. | Al-An'aam : 122

وَإِنْ كَانَ كَبُرَ عَلَيْكَ إِعْرَاضُهُمْ فَإِنِ اسْتَطَعْتَ أَنْ تَبْتَغِيَ نَفَقًا فِي الْأَرْضِ أَوْ سُلَّمًا فِي السَّمَاءِ فَتَأْتِيَهُمْ بِآيَةٍ ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَمَعَهُمْ عَلَى الْهُدَىٰ ۚ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ | And should their aversion be hard on you, find, if you can, a tunnel into the ground, or a ladder into sky, that you may bring them a sign. Had Allah wished, He would have brought them together on guidance. So do not be one of the ignorant. | Al-An'aam : 35

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اسْتَجِيبُوا لِلَّهِ وَلِلرَّسُولِ إِذَا دَعَاكُمْ لِمَا يُحْيِيكُمْ ۖ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَحُولُ بَيْنَ الْمَرْءِ وَقَلْبِهِ وَأَنَّهُ إِلَيْهِ تُحْشَرُونَ | O you who have faith! Answer Allah and the Apostle when he summons you to that which will give you life. Know that Allah intervenes between a man and his heart and that toward Him you will be mustered. | Al-Anfaal : 24

وَكَذَٰلِكَ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ رُوحًا مِنْ أَمْرِنَا ۚ مَا كُنْتَ تَدْرِي مَا الْكِتَابُ وَلَا الْإِيمَانُ وَلَٰكِنْ جَعَلْنَاهُ نُورًا نَهْدِي بِهِ مَنْ نَشَاءُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا ۚ وَإِنَّكَ لَتَهْدِي إِلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُسْتَقِيمٍ | Thus have We imbued you with a Spirit of Our command. You did not know what the Book is, nor what is faith; but We made it a light that We may guide by its means whomever We wish of Our servants. Indeed, you guide to a straight path, | Ash-Shura : 52

I believe Jesus (a) words about giving eternal life are meant like that. That he is the way from God and that if you respond to him, you will be given eternal life and we say in Du'a Nudba, "give us drink from his spring by his hand...."

 

[Link]

Bro. How do you know Jesus ever had this encounter?

That's a different discussion. The opening post, is more in the spirit, according to the Gospels and these words themselves, Isa (a) never taught trinity.

 

[firedragon]

That's a different discussion. The opening post, is more in the spirit, according to the Gospels and these words themselves, Isa (a) never taught trinity.

Hmm. Okay I understand.

 

[firedragon]

I may well be alone in this view here but hear goes.


Ye are gods, children of the most High, Ps. 82:6.
We are the offspring of God, Acts 17:29.
Be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, Heb. 12:9.

be one, as we are John 17:11
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2
heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17.

I’ll stand with what the Bible says. We are God’s children with great potential.

That's true. The bible directly speaks of how someone is God's child or generated from Gods seed, and there are those called the children of the devil. 1 John 3:7-10

Yet, whats your ultimate point? If you don't mind, please clarify.

 

[Truth in love]

That's true. The bible directly speaks of how someone is God's child or generated from Gods seed, and there are those called the children of the devil. 1 John 3:7-10

Yet, whats your ultimate point? If you don't mind, please clarify.

I'm a big fan of the Bible and its doctrine. We the children of God should understand our potential and live accordingly. It also gives some insight into how we ought to treat others.

 

[Link]

Salam

In the following visitation of the Imams (a): Ziyarat Jamia Kabira - Duas.org

The nature of goodness and good deeds stems from them as the source:

إِنْ ذُكِرَ ٱلْخَيْرُ كُنْتُمْ أَوَّلَهُ
in dhukira alkhayru kuntum awwalahu
Whenever goodness is mentioned, you are its initiation,

وَأَصْلَهُ وَفَرْعَهُ
wa aslahu wa far`ahu
origin, branch,

وَمَعْدِنَهُ وَمَأْوَاهُ وَمُنْتَهَاهُ
wa ma`dinahu wa ma'wahu wa muntahahu
essence, center, and ultimate.

This is what Isa (a) also meant that he gives eternal (spiritual) life.

So we see similar words were spoken by 10th Successor, Ali Al-Hadi (a).

 

[firedragon]

I'm a big fan of the Bible and its doctrine. We the children of God should understand our potential and live accordingly. It also gives some insight into how we ought to treat others.

I respect that.

How is that relevant to the OP?

 

[Link]

@dybmh there is a sermon of Imam Ali (a) that says "I give life to the dead", but it's considered weak in chain in terms of trusted people. It's a hard to understand the sermon over all, but I can share it if you want. Otherwise, I think the verses from Quran as well as the words of 10th Successor explained it enough (Jesus (a) words are truth).

 

[Truth in love]

I respect that.

How is that relevant to the OP?

The op dismisses the reality of our being Gods children as a figurative idea. I respectfully disagree 100%

 

[firedragon]

The op dismisses the reality of our being Gods children as a figurative idea. I respectfully disagree 100%

Oh I see. So you believe that 1stJohn saying good humans are Gods seed means they are real, biological children, not just figurative? Then as that verse says how about the Devils children? Are they also actual children and not figurative?

So if the devils children are indeed his kids, they have to be born as Devils children right? But the verse says that it will be decided based on their acts. That means they were not born devils children. And Gods children are not born Gods children but based on their acts they are chosen.

Logically, your disagreement is just false according to the Bible.