I and the father are one.

[dybmh]

Jesus (a) words are truth

The serpent in Eden spoke truth also. Sometimes words can have two meanings both true. Jesus offers eternal life in Christ, in himself. For some this may be a blessing, for others a curse.

 

[Link]

The serpent in Eden spoke truth also. Sometimes words can have two meanings both true. Jesus offers eternal life in Christ, in himself. For some this may be a blessing, for others a curse.

He and God are linked, Jesus offers eternal life, but he is God's Agent, his will is not his own. He is God's door and path.

 

[dybmh]

He and God are linked, Jesus offers eternal life, but he is God's Agent, his will is not his own. He is God's door and path.

In the book of John, he is linked to a being known as "The Father", "The one who sent him".

 

[Link]

In the book of John, he is linked to a being known as "The Father".

In Arab during Arab time of Prophet (s) life, this was too literal, so God dismissed this expression. However, in a du'a (Du'a Abu Hamza Al-Thamalee), we say "And all of creation is your family". This is one angle, another angle, Ahlulbayt (a) in a ziyarat are said to "the family of God" (Aululallah).

Mohammad (s) wouldn't speak those words nor God through Quran, but in time, understanding with context that God is above sons and daughters, it can be understood (both expressions) from an angle and limit of the parable that is proper.

 

[dybmh]

In Arab during Arab time of Prophet (s) life, this was too literal, so God dismissed this expression. However, in a du'a (Du'a Abu Hamza Al-Thamalee), we say "And all of creation is your family". This is one angle, another angle, Ahlulbayt (a) in a ziyarat are said to "the family of God" (Aululallah).

Mohammad (s) wouldn't speak those words nor God through Quran, but in time, understanding with context that God is above sons and daughters, it can be understood (both expressions) from an angle and limit of the parable that is proper.

imho, it's a mistake to assume that "The Father" = God.

 

[Link]

imho, it's a mistake to assume that "The Father" = God.

I think Gospels per Quran corrects much of the Tanakh and Torah in that the latter distorts God's favor of his chosen kings and makes them into low sinners often or evil (they can turn evil like Solomon and Lot). It doesn't seem them as trusted channels of God's light that won't swerve.

I think Quran comments on Gospels and words of Isa (a) in a way, that's saying, it was not just about him but about what children of Israel had in form of kings anointed by God and it's also good news of Mohammad (s) and his family (a) (among it's good news).

I think Gospels can be argued to be true per many verses of Tanakh, but Tanakh is in a contradiction in that respect, and so if you don't acknowledge the contradiction (two central themes opposite to each other), you won't understand Gospels nor Quran commentary on Isa (a) nor it's commentary on Torah and Psalms and Gospels and books between all those.

 

[dybmh]

I think Gospels per Quran corrects much of the Tanakh and Torah in that the latter distorts God's favor of his chosen kings and makes them into low sinners often or evil (they can turn evil like Solomon and Lot). It doesn't seem them as trusted channels of God's light that won't swerve.

How does this relate to the assumption that The Father is God?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah. Luckily I would rather read the text and not be a hypocrite in making bogus claims with no study of anything.

I would offer that is a quandary of your making firedragon.

It is obvious, that if indeed Baha'u'llah is a Messenger from God, then the advice we have been given to seek the spiritual meaning in the Word of God, is also valid, which may not be your way, but it is my preferred way.

I understand the issue, as that would change the way a Muslim would have to approach the reading of the Quran and God forbid, it would also mean one would have to consider the Bible contains truths that many are yet to consider.

That would throw centuries of arguments, trying to negate the legitimacy of the Bible, out of the window, it would give further cause to consider the merit of Baha'u'llah's Message.

Regards Tony

 

[Link]

How does this relate to the assumption that The Father is God?

It contextualizes the sender and the sent ones relationship.

 

[Link]

I would offer that is a quandary of your making firedragon.

It is obvious, that if indeed Baha'u'llah is a Messenger from God, then the advice we have been given to seek the spiritual meaning in the Word of God, is also valid, which may not be your way, but it is my preferred way.

I understand the issue, as that would change the way a Muslim would have to approach the reading of the Quran and God forbid, it would also mean one would have to consider the Bible contains truths that many are yet to consider.

That would throw centuries of arguments, trying to negate the legitimacy of the Bible, out of the window, it would give further cause to consider the merit of Baha'u'llah's Message.

Regards Tony

Quran comments on Torah and Gospels and books between, but it doesn't verify all of it, in fact, a lot of is about pointing to an essential contradiction in the Bible pertaining to God's chosen.

 

[Colt]

I'm just saying, per his own words, what he meant by being God's son, was not a polytheistic equation of himself on the level of God. It was how Jews understood similar phrases of exalted ones of the past. And similarly, when he says God and him are one. He didn't mean in trinity way. This is clear per his owns, they were decontextualizing him.

There are a number of places that allude to the divinity of Jesus.


Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.”9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works. 11Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—or at least believe on account of the works themselves.

This was a private conversation with his apostles. Was he misleading them?

The reason the Father loves Me is that I lay down My life in order to take it up again. 18No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”

Only the mortal body of the Son died, not the Son himself. He waited a few days a reappeared in a new form.

 

[Link]

There are a number of places that allude to the divinity of Jesus.


Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.”9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works. 11Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—or at least believe on account of the works themselves.

This was a private conversation with his apostles. Was he misleading them?

The reason the Father loves Me is that I lay down My life in order to take it up again. 18No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”

Only the mortal body of the Son died, not the Son himself. He waited a few days a reappeared in a new form.

Similar expressions are found by Imams (a).

 

[Link]

There is a chapter in Al-Kafi, that Imams (a) don't die except by their own accord (many hadiths).

 

[firedragon]

I would offer that is a quandary of your making firedragon.

It is obvious, that if indeed Baha'u'llah is a Messenger from God, then the advice we have been given to seek the spiritual meaning in the Word of God, is also valid, which may not be your way, but it is my preferred way.

I understand the issue, as that would change the way a Muslim would have to approach the reading of the Quran and God forbid, it would also mean one would have to consider the Bible contains truths that many are yet to consider.

That would throw centuries of arguments, trying to negate the legitimacy of the Bible, out of the window, it would give further cause to consider the merit of Baha'u'llah's Message.

Regards Tony

Nah. This kind of preaching is good for your gatherings, but when you make bogus statements about books you have never studied, its pretty lame. Latter preaching makes it worse Tony. And you pretend to be a nice guy, but when aggravated you insult people in a very subtle way, but you have not even read and studied even Bahaullah's writings though you claim he is your messenger. Thats pretty strange.

 

[firedragon]

The serpent in Eden spoke truth also. Sometimes words can have two meanings both true. Jesus offers eternal life in Christ, in himself. For some this may be a blessing, for others a curse.

What do you mean "eternal life in him"?

 

[dybmh]

What do you mean "eternal life in him"?

concentual spirit possession with The Father

John 14:19-20

 

[firedragon]

concentual spirit possession

John 14:19-20

But you misquoted it. Famous passage. It speaks of being in the father, in Jesus, Jesus in the disciples, being a mutual thing. Not just "In Jesus".

 

[dybmh]

But you misquoted it. Famous passage. It speaks of being in the father, in Jesus, Jesus in the disciples, being a mutual thing. Not just "In Jesus".

yes, the spirit indwelling is both The Father and Jesus, this is what I hear Christians call life "In Christ". It's still something which can be a blessing or a curse depending on the details which are omitted. People assume that life in Christ with The Father is life eternal with God. I think this assumption is a mistake.

 

[firedragon]

yes, the spirit indwelling is both The Father and Jesus, this is what I hear Christians call life "In Christ". It's still something which can be a blessing or a curse depending on the details which are omitted. People assume that life in Christ with The Father is life eternal with God. I think this assumption is a mistake.

Most Christians learned all of this without knowing the Bible dybmh. Just imagine, the majority of human beings in the U.S are Christians. Research shows atheists have more knowledge of the Bible than Christians.

 

[dybmh]

Most Christians learned all of this without knowing the Bible dybmh. Just imagine, the majority of human beings in the U.S are Christians. Research shows atheists have more knowledge of the Bible than Christians.

Even more reason to be cautious, imo.