I and the father are one.

[Muffled]

Abe himself came from Ur .. prior to settling in the land of Canaan .. becoming a Canaanite .. as with the rest of his lineage .. all Canaanites .. including the Israelites .. along with their religious beliefs .. "Canaanite"

Hebrew is a Canaanite Script indeed .. and because EL was the Most High God .. over all the Region .. including for Ur .. those from Babylon at the time .. over the name of the Most HIgh God came into use as a term for "God" in general .. this is true ..

but in the script .. the name is distinguished from the general term for God in the text so is not normally and issue.

Now "you believe" Ha ha .. ohhh.. thats nice .. on the basis of what .. what is the basis of this belief Brother Muff .. What is the name of the God of Abraham if not EL - most high God of the Canaanites .. and well .. the Assyrians - Babylonians - Sumerian . .. Phonecians .. Philistines .. Amorites, Hittites .. moabites ..edomites .. and what is the name of that Tribe where Moses met his God ... oh "Midianites" .. Them too .. u understand ?

Now .. tell us the name of this "Most High" God .. that everyone else in the period knew as EL .. but you know by the name. ????
Hint: and the name can not be YHWH

Then .. you go to Encyclopedia Brittanica .. look up Abe .. and read .. and learn when they tell you that the God of Abe was "EL" .. apparently modern scholarship made same darn assumption .. the one you believe in not .. because you know better .. that the name of the God of Abe is ?????? .. we can't wait to hear. .. and don't spout off one of those epithets either .. get a big Donut for that sorry attempt.

I know of no name. We do the same thing by calling Him God which is not a name and we do not have a different name for Him.

 

[Muffled]

I believe:

"I and the Father are one" is simply part of the later books of the Bible that were designed to fit the new theology created by the highly educated elite Roman citizens like Paul. The new theology was intended to eliminate what they considered to be the ridiculous practice of sacrificing animals. Jesus was adapted to substitute for the sacrifices for both Jews and Greco-Roman polytheists. Jesus was also adapted to substitute the human-like Greco-Roman "gods" with a human-like image of the true God.

"I and the Father are one" is simply a Scripture that was fabricated to fit the pre-conceived theology. These were highly educated men dealing with largely uneducated groups. The leaders believed it was an advancement of society, e.g. the end of animal sacrifices and the end of polytheism. Paul even spoke of the justification of lying to accomplish the goals.

(I avoid playing the "Bible game", but even in that game, one can show Scriptures like "The Father is greater than I" etc. It all proves not the point of an argument but the point that the Bible is artificially "all things to all people". "All things to all people" is hard to do and also come up with a coherent and consistent message. "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive." Romans 3:7 "...if through my lie God 's truth abounds to his glory...")

I believe there is no evidence to support that view.

 

[Sargonski]

I know of no name. We do the same thing by calling Him God which is not a name and we do not have a different name for Him.

Two donuts ?! If you don't know the name of the God you worship .. then you better figure it out .. otherwise your prayers will be sent to the wrong email address .. into the Junk - generic God address ..

and NO .. no no no .. you do prayers do not get to the right address .. sending to the generic Junk God folder .. and who is We ?? What Church Group is this that knows not the name of the God they worship ? obviously not Jehovah's witnesses .. are you talking Buddhism ?

 

[RR144]

If you don't know the name of the God you worship .. then you better figure it out .. otherwise your prayers will be sent to the wrong email address .. into the Junk - generic God address ..

I know the name of my Heavenly Father, but I don't have to call Him by that name. Do you call your earthly father by his name? My father knows who I am, as he adopted me (Eph 1:5)

and NO .. no no no .. you do prayers do not get to the right address .. sending to the generic Junk God folder .. and who is We ?? What Church Group is this that knows not the name of the God they worship ? obviously not Jehovah's witnesses .. are you talking Buddhism ?

You do know that the Jury is still out in regards the correct pronunciation of the Divine Name, don't you? Most scholars including the Jehovah's Witnesses admit that Yahweh is the correct name, and there are plenty of Sacred Name groups who use the name YAHWEH in their worship.

 

[jimb]

I believe:

"I and the Father are one" is simply part of the later books of the Bible that were designed to fit the new theology created by the highly educated elite Roman citizens like Paul. The new theology was intended to eliminate what they considered to be the ridiculous practice of sacrificing animals. Jesus was adapted to substitute for the sacrifices for both Jews and Greco-Roman polytheists. Jesus was also adapted to substitute the human-like Greco-Roman "gods" with a human-like image of the true God.

"I and the Father are one" is simply a Scripture that was fabricated to fit the pre-conceived theology. These were highly educated men dealing with largely uneducated groups. The leaders believed it was an advancement of society, e.g. the end of animal sacrifices and the end of polytheism. Paul even spoke of the justification of lying to accomplish the goals.

(I avoid playing the "Bible game", but even in that game, one can show Scriptures like "The Father is greater than I" etc. It all proves not the point of an argument but the point that the Bible is artificially "all things to all people". "All things to all people" is hard to do and also come up with a coherent and consistent message. "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive." Romans 3:7 "...if through my lie God 's truth abounds to his glory...")

Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." (NIV)

We believing Christians are certain of our beliefs. No wrong interpretation can alter God's truth.

Read my "signature" below...

 

[Sargonski]

I know the name of my Heavenly Father, but I don't have to call Him by that name. Do you call your earthly father by his name? My father knows who I am, as he adopted me (Eph 1:5)

You do know that the Jury is still out in regards the correct pronunciation of the Divine Name, don't you? Most scholars including the Jehovah's Witnesses admit that Yahweh is the correct name, and there are plenty of Sacred Name groups who use the name YAHWEH in their worship.

OH my Word Brother RR .. why are you quoting from Pauline scripture .. that be not the name of the God of Jesus .. and sorry friend but YHWH .. however you wish to prounouce or describe "Chief God of Israel" "Lord YHWH" .. is not the God of Jesus ?! Jesus calls that nasty Lord YHWH and the Lord Jealous .. the Devil in John 8:44 "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

So it is written .. so it shall be done The covenant of Lord YHWH - and Lord Jealous -- and commands that go with that covenant are not something Jesus tolerated .. and if you break the commands willingly and teach others to do the same .. you break the covenant. .. and you are not a follower of the God of that covenant.

That is how it works Brother RR -- now .. your mission .. should you choose to accept it - is to figure out the commands/covenant of the God of Jesus . Hint: it would probably be a good idea to know the name of this God but possible to complete the first part of the mission without .. but .. the second part of this mission is to tell us the name of this God .. that clearly you do not know ! .. Hint 2 -- The God of jesus has the same name as the God of Abraham .. and Jesus is a Priest not of the order of Aaron- levitical priesthood .. the Priesthood of YHWH.

 

[Muffled]

Two donuts ?! If you don't know the name of the God you worship .. then you better figure it out .. otherwise your prayers will be sent to the wrong email address .. into the Junk - generic God address ..

and NO .. no no no .. you do prayers do not get to the right address .. sending to the generic Junk God folder .. and who is We ?? What Church Group is this that knows not the name of the God they worship ? obviously not Jehovah's witnesses .. are you talking Buddhism ?

You said that the name cant be YWVH. There is another name AYAH but I suspect that is more generic like God or El. So the nameyou won't allow is the name I go by. I know no other name except Jesus but that is more than just God, it is God and man.

 

[Sargonski]

You said that the name cant be YWVH. There is another name AYAH but I suspect that is more generic like God or El. So the nameyou won't allow is the name I go by. I know no other name except Jesus but that is more than just God, it is God and man.

Gibled garble ? .. "I will use what ever name I like" -- OK then .. . don't let me stop you .. call Jesus by any name you like .. but, Jesus is not the name of the God of Abraham ?!

The Generic use of the term "EL" (God) is not the same as the proper Name use of the Canaanite High God EL .. and it is the proper name usage in the case of Psalm 82 .. as the footnote in the Bible tells us - "Assembly of EL" - The phrase עֲדַת אֵל (ʿadat ʾel, “assembly of El”) appears only here in the OT. (3) The present translation assumes this is a reference to the Canaanite high god El, who presided over the Canaanite divine assembly.
---------

The name of Canaanite High God EL .. is the name of the God of Abraham ... and also the name of the God of Jesus .. who we should distinguish from the National God of the Israelites YHWH .. EL is the Father .. YHWH the Son .. The Son usurps the Father to become Chief God over the Earth .. but, EL is still high God in the heavens .. head of the divine council.

 

[Eli G]

EL is not a personal name of any god. That is a generic name (a common noun) which simply means "god".

All ancient territorial gods had their own personal names.

YHWH was the personal name of Israel's God, and since the word EL is a semitic term (in all semitic languages) for the generic noun "god" it's obvious that sometimes, inspired biblical writers called Jehovah with that appellative ... ... nothing to do with any foreign god.

Israel's God is named with many appellatives, besides his own personal name that identifies Him and no one else.

 

[Eli G]

Someone said:

Most scholars including Jehovah's Witnesses admit Yahweh is the correct name...

Jehovah's Witnesses DO NOT teach that.

Although some think Yahweh is the correct form, others favor that the name should have been pronounced in Hebrew with three syllables instead of two.

 

[Muffled]

Gibled garble ? .. "I will use what ever name I like" -- OK then .. . don't let me stop you .. call Jesus by any name you like .. but, Jesus is not the name of the God of Abraham ?!

The Generic use of the term "EL" (God) is not the same as the proper Name use of the Canaanite High God EL .. and it is the proper name usage in the case of Psalm 82 .. as the footnote in the Bible tells us - "Assembly of EL" - The phrase עֲדַת אֵל (ʿadat ʾel, “assembly of El”) appears only here in the OT. (3) The present translation assumes this is a reference to the Canaanite high god El, who presided over the Canaanite divine assembly.
---------

The name of Canaanite High God EL .. is the name of the God of Abraham ... and also the name of the God of Jesus .. who we should distinguish from the National God of the Israelites YHWH .. EL is the Father .. YHWH the Son .. The Son usurps the Father to become Chief God over the Earth .. but, EL is still high God in the heavens .. head of the divine council.

I believe Abraham a native of Ur would not have known that name for God if it is the same god which it might not be.

 

[Sargonski]

I believe Abraham a native of Ur would not have known that name for God if it is the same god which it might not be.

100% Abraham knew of the Sumerian High God (Enlil, Illil, EL ) different variations on the name for the same God. Everybody knows the story in the entire Near east and beyond .. they all have the same creation story - in which the God Enlil Sends the Flood .. his Brother Enki saves humanity by telling Noah to build the Ark ..

More-over - Everyone knows about and believes in the Divine Council -- referred to in Canaan as the Assembly of EL .. and all of the different nations .. ammonites, Hittites, Phonecians Edomites, Midianites Moabites Israelites all believed that EL was the Chief God of the High Council .. of the Assembly up in the heavens .. while chief God on Earth was taken up by one of the Sons of EL or Elohim - the Gods. .. of which all the Patron Gods were Sons of the Elohim .. Chemosh, Baal, YHWH, Marduk .. and all these sons battled each other for the title of Chief God on Earth.

 

[GoodAttention]

You said that the name cant be YWVH. There is another name AYAH but I suspect that is more generic like God or El. So the nameyou won't allow is the name I go by. I know no other name except Jesus but that is more than just God, it is God and man.

Where did you come across AYAH?

 

[Sargonski]

Where did you come across AYAH?

Sounds like Allah ..

 

[servant1]

EL is not a personal name of any god. That is a generic name (a common noun) which simply means "god".

All ancient territorial gods had their own personal names.

YHWH was the personal name of Israel's God, and since the word EL is a semitic term (in all semitic languages) for the generic noun "god" it's obvious that sometimes, inspired biblical writers called Jehovah with that appellative ... ... nothing to do with any foreign god.

Israel's God is named with many appellatives, besides his own personal name that identifies Him and no one else.

Yes, Either YHWH or YHVH-they aren't 100% sure. The name translated to Jehovah.
El is short for Elohim, It is not a name, In the Hebrew language it translates- the supreme one or the mighty one when used for the true living God Israel served. Elijah translates-EL(Elohim) is Jehovah. Hallelujah translates- Praise be to Jehovah. YHWH or YHVH which translates to Jehovah is Gods only name.
That name belongs in Gods bible over 7000 places by Gods will. By satans will it was removed and replaced with the titles-GOD or LORD to mislead all using the altered translations, and it does just that. Thus ones religions shows all of creation whose will they support on the matter of Gods name in his bible.

 

[Muffled]

100% Abraham knew of the Sumerian High God (Enlil, Illil, EL ) different variations on the name for the same God. Everybody knows the story in the entire Near east and beyond .. they all have the same creation story - in which the God Enlil Sends the Flood .. his Brother Enki saves humanity by telling Noah to build the Ark ..

More-over - Everyone knows about and believes in the Divine Council -- referred to in Canaan as the Assembly of EL .. and all of the different nations .. ammonites, Hittites, Phonecians Edomites, Midianites Moabites Israelites all believed that EL was the Chief God of the High Council .. of the Assembly up in the heavens .. while chief God on Earth was taken up by one of the Sons of EL or Elohim - the Gods. .. of which all the Patron Gods were Sons of the Elohim .. Chemosh, Baal, YHWH, Marduk .. and all these sons battled each other for the title of Chief God on Earth.

I believe I don't find any of that in the Bible and I don't trust other sources.

 

[Muffled]

Where did you come across AYAH?

The text in Exodus says "I am that I am." although I prefer I am who I am since that would be our modern way of referrring to a person. I also like I am the one who is.

 

[Sargonski]

I believe I don't find any of that in the Bible and I don't trust other sources.

"Holy thought stopping reflex triggered Batman" -- "Circular fallacy Robin .. not a foundation for mucy" - hoping you remember the old Batman and Robin TV series

.. OK -- so you do not trust any source other than the Bible about History.... Got it... that's wierd .. but the source you were given is the Bible .. so you are saying you do not believe the Bible as a source .. and you don't trust other sources. Do you not find somethign wrong with your logic Brother Muffl ?

Let us try this again .. Psalm 82 .. verse 1:

God -YHWH stands in[b] the assembly of El;[c] in the midst of the gods[d] he renders judgment.[e]
________________

OK ? you understand ... The source is the Bible .. Psalm 82 is from the Jewish Bible .. a song sung in the Temple of YHWH - 900 BC ...celebrating YHWH's victory over the other sons of the Most High

The Most High God being referred to is the Chief God of the Assembly of EL -- like Zeus in the Greek Pantheon cept in the heavens .. ot high on the mountain although EL has a Tent there where he resides .. or resided .. as YHWH is the Chief God on Earth and it is he that sits in that Chair.. .. much of which we learn from other sources but .. we don't care because the Assembly of EL is mentioned in the Bible .. El - Most high God of the Canaanite Pantheon during Abe's time .. as the Bible tells us .. and further explained in the Bible Footnote

The phrase עֲדַת אֵל (ʿadat ʾel, “assembly of El”) appears only here in the OT. (1) Some understand “El” to refer to God himself. In this case he is pictured presiding over his own heavenly assembly. (2) Others take אֵל as a superlative here (“God stands in the great assembly”), as in Pss 36:6 and 80:10. (3) The present translation assumes this is a reference to the Canaanite high god El, who presided over the Canaanite divine assembly. (See Isa 14:13, where El’s assembly is called “the stars of El.”) In the Ugaritic myths the phrase ʿdt ʾilm refers to the “assembly of the gods,” who congregate in King Kirtu’s house, where Baal asks El to bless Kirtu’s house (see G. R. Driver, Canaanite Myths and Legends, 91). If the Canaanite divine assembly is referred to here in Ps 82:1, then the psalm must be understood as a bold polemic against Canaanite religion. Israel’s God invades El’s assembly, denounces its gods as failing to uphold justice, and announces their coming demise. For an interpretation of the psalm along these lines, see W. VanGemeren, “Psalms,” EBC 5:533-36.
----------------------------

So .. what is it that you don't find in the bible .. as all of the Above footnote related to the Assembly of EL .. in the Bible .. explains that this is the Canaanite High God EL who is presiding over the Assembly in which Lord YHWH standeth .. and it is EL who is the Most High God .. the sons of which YHWH defeats .. gaining the position of Most High God over the Earth.


Psalms 82:8 Rise up, O God, and execute judgment on the earth! For you own[q] all the nations.

 

[GoodAttention]

The text in Exodus says "I am that I am." although I prefer I am who I am since that would be our modern way of referrring to a person. I also like I am the one who is.

I can understand as a Christian you would prefer "who" as the descriptive and to apply it retrospectively. My opinion is it would be a better literal translation, but not contextually accurate as God (not a person).

I think the best literal translation is "what", meaning "I am what I am", which is an equally porous descriptive as "who", given it reduces the God concept to an object.

In the end, "that" is the best contextual translation, since it neither personifies nor objectifies the divine, at least from a non-Christian perspective. Even then, calling God such a name still sounds...vulgar, nevertheless there is a "street-art" type beauty when the name is displayed as the tetragrammaton.

Like an ancient Mona Lisa, starring back at you from every angle. TO be seen, not heard.

 

[servant1]

EL is not a personal name of any god. That is a generic name (a common noun) which simply means "god".

All ancient territorial gods had their own personal names.

YHWH was the personal name of Israel's God, and since the word EL is a semitic term (in all semitic languages) for the generic noun "god" it's obvious that sometimes, inspired biblical writers called Jehovah with that appellative ... ... nothing to do with any foreign god.

Israel's God is named with many appellatives, besides his own personal name that identifies Him and no one else.

Elohim actually translates-the supreme one or the mighty one in the Hebrew language, it is not a name, thus false gods are called El as well to the false worshippers just carrying the meaning i showed above.
YHWH or YHVH they aren't sure--But that is Gods Hebrew name. Our translations are not written in Hebrew thus Jehovah is used, the same for Job, Jeremiah, Joshua, etc.