I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

[ppp]

Our DNA was designed before we started splitting cells to become a Homo Sapiens. It was programed to exist and the programer is called God.

So, you claim.

 

[Trailblazer]

[He] willed the universe into existence in full, indeed perfect, knowledge of the consequences of [his] action. All bucks stop at his desk. There's nowhere else they could stop.

God gave man dominion over the earth, so the buck stops with humans.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The buck stops with humans who commit evil actions, with full knowledge of the evil they are committing.
Every court of law knows that.

Humans operate according to a design which the bible says was made by God's own hand.

That's right, and God created humans good. What happened after that is their own responsibility.

If you choose to hold to the Bible....
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

And again [he] has perfect knowledge of everything that would happen as a result ─ and accordingly must be taken to have desired and deliberately caused that result.

God's knowledge of what humans would choose to do is not what caused humans to do what they did. There is no logical connection whatsoever.

God did not cause anything except for the creation of the universe including planet earth, and God caused humans to evolve, but humans were purely GOOD, before they started to make bad choices, and I am not referring to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

You mean the rules about buying, selling, owning, bonking, thrashing, and generally trading in slaves? I don't hold with slavery, just as I don't hold with invasive war, or human sacrifice, or women as property, or murderous religious intolerance, so my morality is vastly different to God's.

That is not God's morality, since those laws did not come from God. The Old Testament was written by men so it is the testament of men. What makes you think that God had anything to do with it?

If I had the qualities of omnipotence, omniscience, perfection ─ and of course benevolence ─ I assure you I could design a better kind of dominant critter than us present lot.
What was that purpose, exactly? Please spell it out for me.

You cannot know that you would do a better job unless you had to do that job.

The purpose of this life is to know and worship God and develop spiritual qualities and thereby prepare our souls for life in the next world. We develop these qualities of character by serving God by serving other people.

 

[rational experiences]

Men always said as the original I over lord my human natural family. I took away life's balances. The over lord about the Lord. Will my scientific causes predict my saving.

Lord over lord history of man's chosen science causes.

So he theoried personal named inheritances used by men inferred by men given by men. To record the subject of control.

Why he made us use names.

So he thinks if he knows the name of the Lord today it might advise him if he is safe in life after rechoosing repracticing star nuclear Satanism.

Science.

So he says man using name BAB was close to destruction recurring.

Babylon thesis about lord.

As man overlords God. Stole earths gods powers sealed in stone it's cold gas entombed spirit. Claiming heavenly sources.

Yet by burning cold ground mass he caused cold earth heavens gases to be removed.

As factually Christ is the science status. Anti only meant it was removed by causes as there is no such status as anti Christ.

Only Christ. Only ever was Christ in heavens.

Satanists however theories anti Christ.

Science.

Two brothers basically equal in science is Russia America.

iA...iCA.

AI the term life's destruction prophecy brother a king thin king. Stephen.

Man virtually forced to think with machine. Even used it as a new technology thesis as one worse condition than the owner.

For everyone. As we are one human biology equal.

So we would never inherit the one man's sacrificed body. We'd be given something new. For all.

So now he realises he doesn't own any named lord.

As he reverts back to the old... behaviours old beliefs he already expressed warnings when he re began nuclear practice.

Lord.
Old. Removed R. Earths dust power Ra. Cold fused.

As Jesus had not owned a future of man's choices to destroy remove new earth mass. It's only done right in the present status where you inherit

New life sacrifice

So as his wife mother sister daughter I gained a last warning.

As women own biological life cell continuance as natural life. A natural psyche. A natural human.

I don't own any lord man prediction for himself and never would I own it.

If a man asked his own human father why life of human was sacrificed he lived the owned biological answer....because he chose machines over life

Is still the exact same answer today.

 

[Trailblazer]

An omnigod can create whatever universe he wants..
He wanted this specific universe where you asked me that question.
Therefore he created the specific universe where you would ask me that question.

That's right, I can ask you this question because I have a mind to think and free will to decide to ask you this question, but so what?

That still does not answer my question.

How does God's knowledge of what we will do cause us to do what we will do?
If a mathematician by astronomical calculations knows that at a certain time an eclipse of the moon or the sun will occur that knowledge does not cause the eclipse to take place.

 

[rational experiences]

In correct use human words you've inherited the future of life's destruction now because you did not agree nor heed Jesus life of man sacrificed by machine technology.

Your man's chosen predictions are real.

The name is not the same the known science of man's prediction was don't choose machines over life.

The same reasons for life being sacrificed. You have to build the machines to cause life present to be re newed destroyed.

As inherited life of past sacrifice is by sex.

New life sacrificed by machines is now.

Machines named title given by men nuclear power plant. Conversion nuclear dust. Gain nuclear waste. Collider. Plus communicating machines all known to change natural cell health already.

The names of your new over lord that causes Christ spirit heavens to be removed sacrificed. Your chosen Satanism...ist advice lists.
LLLL.
+ Back to back two faced science liar man.
L 50.

LLLL list how to by 200 value destroy 100 year human life span.

Known exact reasoned before.

L by corner of the stone angles of mathematical converting by addition the cross +.

 

[blü 2]

God gave man dominion over the earth, so the buck stops with humans.

Nope. The omnipotent omniscient God had known before [he] created the universe what was going to happen when [he] did that. But [he] did it anyway, obviously because it was what [he] had always intended and desired.

The buck stops with humans who commit evil actions, with full knowledge of the evil they are committing. Every court of law knows that.

That's at a human level, where we all feel as though we own our own decisions.

But given an omnipotent, omniscient God, that can't be true. (There are other reasons why that can't be true, but they're not our topic.)

That's right, and God created humans good. What happened after that is their own responsibility.

No, [he] made them as [he] wanted them to be, and with full knowledge of the consequences.

God's knowledge of what humans would choose to do is not what caused humans to do what they did. There is no logical connection whatsoever.

There's an absolutely pure connection. [He] made those humans with full, perfect foreknowledge of the consequences of making them. We're all doing exactly and only what [he] intended before [he] made the universe.

Alternatively, [he]'s not omnipotent and not omniscient and not perfect. In that case [he]'s guilty of negligence and like any negligent agent still has full responsibility for the consequences of [his] agency.

God did not cause anything except for the creation of the universe including planet earth

Let's get this clear ─ made the universe, you say, but did so in ignorance of how things would turn out? A shot in the dark?

but humans were purely GOOD, before they started to make bad choices, and I am not referring to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

Then on what basis do you assert that humans were purely good (other than purely good at surviving long enough to breed) when we have no reason to think the stock from which genus Homo and thus them were descended were "purely good"?

Are all the critters in the wild "purely good""

 

[ppp]

That's right, I can ask you this question because I have a mind to think and free will to decide to ask you this question, but so what?

If that is what your god designed you to say, there is nothing you or I can do about it.

 

[Triumph]

God gave man dominion over the earth, so the buck stops with humans.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The buck stops with humans who commit evil actions, with full knowledge of the evil they are committing.
Every court of law knows that.

That's right, and God created humans good. What happened after that is their own responsibility.

If you choose to hold to the Bible....
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God's knowledge of what humans would choose to do is not what caused humans to do what they did. There is no logical connection whatsoever.

God did not cause anything except for the creation of the universe including planet earth, and God caused humans to evolve, but humans were purely GOOD, before they started to make bad choices, and I am not referring to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

That is not God's morality, since those laws did not come from God. The Old Testament was written by men so it is the testament of men. What makes you think that God had anything to do with it?

You cannot know that you would do a better job unless you had to do that job.

The purpose of this life is to know and worship God and develop spiritual qualities and thereby prepare our souls for life in the next world. We develop these qualities of character by serving God by serving other people.

Agree with you! Well stated.

 

[Trailblazer]

If that is what your god designed you to say, there is nothing you or I can do about it.

That is patently absurd. God did not design me to say anything. God created me with free will to choose what to say and that is why I am fully accountable for what I say.

 

[ppp]

That is patently absurd. God did not design me to say anything. God created me with free will to choose what to say and that is why I am fully accountable for what I say.

God wrote your part really well. I almost can't see his fingers moving when you type.

 

[Trailblazer]

Nope. The omnipotent omniscient God had known before [he] created the universe what was going to happen when [he] did that. But [he] did it anyway, obviously because it was what [he] had always intended and desired.

No, God did not desire or intend for humans to do anything after they were created. Humans were created good but we have two natures, a spiritual or higher nature and our material or lower nature. We all have free will, so we can choose to act according to one of our two natures.

“In man there are two natures; his spiritual or higher nature and his material or lower nature. In one he approaches God, in the other he lives for the world alone. Signs of both these natures are to be found in men. In his material aspect he expresses untruth, cruelty and injustice; all these are the outcome of his lower nature. The attributes of his Divine nature are shown forth in love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of his higher nature. Every good habit, every noble quality belongs to man’s spiritual nature, whereas all his imperfections and sinful actions are born of his material nature. If a man’s Divine nature dominates his human nature, we have a saint.” Paris Talks, p. 60

To read more: THE TWO NATURES IN MAN

Moreover, all imperfection comes from our physical nature, our spiritual nature is purely good.

Question.—In verse 22 of chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians it is written: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” What is the meaning of these words?

Answer.—Know that there are two natures in man: the physical nature and the spiritual nature. The physical nature is inherited from Adam, and the spiritual nature is inherited from the Reality of the Word of God, which is the spirituality of Christ. The physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. The first is the source of all imperfection; the second is the source of all perfection.

The Christ sacrificed Himself so that men might be freed from the imperfections of the physical nature and might become possessed of the virtues of the spiritual nature. This spiritual nature, which came into existence through the bounty of the Divine Reality, is the union of all perfections and appears through the breath of the Holy Spirit. It is the divine perfections; it is light, spirituality, guidance, exaltation, high aspiration, justice, love, grace, kindness to all, philanthropy, the essence of life. It is the reflection of the splendor of the Sun of Reality.
Some Answered Questions, p. 118

That's at a human level, where we all feel as though we own our own decisions.

But given an omnipotent, omniscient God, that can't be true. (There are other reasons why that can't be true, but they're not our topic.)

No, there are no reasons why humans are not free to commit evil actions, with full knowledge of the evil they are committing. Every court of law knows that.

God's all-encompassing knowledge of what humans will do does not cause humans to do anything. The fact that God is all-powerful does not mean that God uses His power to control humans. There are no logical connections.

No, [he] made them as [he] wanted them to be, and with full knowledge of the consequences.

So what if God knew? That does not make God responsible in any way!

There's an absolutely pure connection. [He] made those humans with full, perfect foreknowledge of the consequences of making them. We're all doing exactly and only what [he] intended before [he] made the universe.

But as I said above, God had no intentions for humans. God allowed and wanted to determine their own intentions. That is why God gave us free will.

Alternatively, [he]'s not omnipotent and not omniscient and not perfect. In that case [he]'s guilty of negligence and like any negligent agent still has full responsibility for the consequences of [his] agency.

That is just your way to blame God for human choices and actions, a way to pass the buck for what humans are responsible for. It is completely illogical.

Let's get this clear ─ made the universe, you say, but did so in ignorance of how things would turn out? A shot in the dark?

So what if God knew? What God knew was not the cause of human actions. There is no logical connection.

“Every act ye meditate is as clear to Him as is that act when already accomplished. There is none other God besides Him. His is all creation and its empire. All stands revealed before Him; all is recorded in His holy and hidden Tablets. This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men, just as your own previous knowledge that a certain event is to occur, or your desire that it should happen, is not and can never be the reason for its occurrence.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 150

Then on what basis do you assert that humans were purely good (other than purely good at surviving long enough to breed) when we have no reason to think the stock from which genus Homo and thus them were descended were "purely good"?

The Scriptures are the basis for my beliefs.

Are all the critters in the wild "purely good""

No, but they are not evil either. Animals do not have free will, they act on animal instincts, so they are not accountable for their actions.

 

[blü 2]

No, God did not desire or intend for humans to do anything after they were created. Humans were created good but we have two natures, a spiritual or higher nature and our material or lower nature. We all have free will, so we can choose to act according to one of our two natures.

So, in your view, God is NOT omniscient hence NOT perfect?

Each human has one nature, formed from his or her genetics and his or her upbringing, culture, education and experiences.

The Christ sacrificed Himself so that men might be freed from the imperfections of the physical nature and might become possessed of the virtues of the spiritual nature.

What God would be so barbarous as to require a human sacrifice before doing the obviously proper thing, which [he] should have been doing from the start?

So what if God knew? That does not make God responsible in any way!

That explains why God sits on [his] hands while a child drowns in a swimming pool. Not my problem, says God, even though I've always known that was going to happen, and one of the things I considered before I created the universe in the form it is.

But as I said above, God had no intentions for humans. God allowed and wanted to determine their own intentions. That is why God gave us free will.

So God is NOT omniscient, NOT omnipotent (or [he]'d make [him]self omniscient), NOT perfect ─ is that what you're saying?

That is just your way to blame God for human choices and actions, a way to pass the buck for what humans are responsible for. It is completely illogical.

In the real world I don't even know what a real God is. I'm simply working out the consequences of having an omni God.

No, but they are not evil either. Animals do not have free will, they act on animal instincts, so they are not accountable for their actions.

But humans are animals. There's no sense in which humans are NOT animals.

 

[ppp]

Animals do not have free will,

No one does.

they act on animal instincts,

So do you

so they are not accountable for their actions.

This is false for social mammals at the very least.

 

[Triumph]

So, in your view, God is NOT omniscient hence NOT perfect?

Each human has one nature, formed from his or her genetics and his or her upbringing, culture, education and experiences.
What God would be so barbarous as to require a human sacrifice before doing the obviously proper thing, which [he] should have been doing from the start?
That explains why God sits on [his] hands while a child drowns in a swimming pool. Not my problem, says God, even though I've always known that was going to happen, and one of the things I considered before I created the universe in the form it is.
So God is NOT omniscient, NOT omnipotent (or [he]'d make [him]self omniscient), NOT perfect ─ is that what you're saying?
In the real world I don't even know what a real God is. I'm simply working out the consequences of having an omni God.
But humans are animals. There's no sense in which humans are NOT animals.

We are in the likeness of God because we can invent computers, fly in jets and manipulate DNA. We are capable of understanding math, science, literature & physics because we are designed by God to have advanced creative capabilities. Other animals are not. I have seen paintings done by a horse but I doubt he would ever learn enough to work at Pixar.

 

[blü 2]

We are in the likeness of God because we can invent computers, fly in jets and manipulate DNA. We are capable of understanding math, science, literature & physics because we are designed by God to have advanced creative capabilities. Other animals are not. I have seen paintings done by a horse but I doubt he would ever learn enough to work at Pixar.

Yes, we're the smartest species on the planet when viewed in those terms.

But the winner will be the last species standing, and that'll most likely be a bacterium of some kind.

(And if, as my SF upbringing and Marvel both require, we're going to conquer the galaxies, well, as things stand we'll need to invent a cyborg version of ourselves that can come back to Earth after years of living in Mars' one-sixth gravity, and won't mind gravity a couple of times our own nor the radiation exposure of deep space, nor the unknown equivalents of flora and fauna in other distant systems.)

 

[Trailblazer]

No one does.

Tell that to the judge.

“Everyone wants to hold criminals responsible for their actions. This “responsibility” has its foundation in the belief that we all have the free will to choose right from wrong. What if free will is just an illusion, how would that impact the criminal justice system? Free will creates the moral structure that provides the foundation for our criminal justice system. Without it, most punishments in place today must be eliminated completely. Its no secret that I’m a firm believer in free will, but I’m also a firm believer in arguing against it when it helps my clients. That’s what we lawyers do (call me a hypocrite if you like, I can take it). Now, let’s delve into the issues and practical effects of eliminating free will.

We only punish those who are morally responsible for their action. If a driver accidentally runs over a pedestrian–there will be no criminal charges in the death of the pedestrian. This is what we call an “accident”. However, if a husband runs over his wife after an argument, that same pedestrian death now constitutes murder. It was the driver’s “intent” that made one pedestrian death a crime, and the other not. But, what if we examine the husband’s brain, and an MRI discovers a frontal lobe defect that could explain his deviant behavior? Is he still guilty of murder? If such a defect “caused” the husband’s actions, our criminal justice system has laws in place that would label the husband “Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity”......

As you can see from the appellate opinion above, our criminal laws are founded on the notion that if a person is not acting by his free will, the law cannot hold him “accountable for his choices”. There are plenty of other examples of Florida criminal laws that would benefit my clients, should everyone agree that free will is an illusion. For example, confessions cannot not be entered into evidence unless they are made of the defendant’s “own free will”. The term “free will” is contained right there in the definition of numerous legal concepts. Other criminal law concepts would lose their meaning as well, like “premeditation”. Is it realistic to speak of premeditation if freewill doesn’t exist? Is a robot on an assembly line in China premeditating the building of an iPhone? The mere fact that a robot takes several distinct steps to complete a task doesn’t render its actions ‘premeditated’. Such concepts should be purged from our criminal justice system if we’re all just biological robots.

Should science convince the world that free will is an illusion–we must move past notions of “punishment” and “sentencing”. This is not just intellectual musings; concepts of free will impact the criminal courts on a daily basis....... The bottom line here is best expressed by Professor Shaun Nichols in his lectures entitled Free Will and Determinism: “if science convinces us that free will is an illusion, we seem to face a moral conclusion that is difficult to accept: that all criminals should be excused for their crimes.”

Free WIll, Determinism, and the Criminal Justice System

 

[ppp]

Tell that to the judge.

Not relevant.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not relevant.

Completely relevant for reasons posted.

 

[ppp]

Completely relevant for reasons posted.

No reasons were posted. You quoted stuff from legal system and people's desires. As though either determines how things really are.

You keep falling into the same trap, @Trailblazer. You keep appealing to cultural convention and personal desires as though those things dictate reality.

They do not.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, in your view, God is NOT omniscient hence NOT perfect?

I do not know what you mean by perfect. I believe God is perfect and omniscient.

What God would be so barbarous as to require a human sacrifice before doing the obviously proper thing, which [he] should have been doing from the start?

God did not require it of Jesus, Jesus chose to sacrifice himself for the sins and inequities of humanity.
What should God have done, make humans into robots who would never sin?

That explains why God sits on [his] hands while a child drowns in a swimming pool. Not my problem, says God, even though I've always known that was going to happen, and one of the things I considered before I created the universe in the form it is.

God is not responsible to intervene in this world and play Superman.
Just because God knew it was going to happen that does not make God responsible for it happening.

So God is NOT omniscient, NOT omnipotent (or [he]'d make [him]self omniscient), NOT perfect ─ is that what you're saying?

No, that is not what I am saying. God is omnipotent, omniscient and perfect.

In the real world I don't even know what a real God is. I'm simply working out the consequences of having an omni God.

You mean what you think would be the consequences according to your understanding of what it means to be omnipotent and omniscient.

But humans are animals. There's no sense in which humans are NOT animals.

Human are animals but we are more than animals because we have a spiritual nature other animals don't have.