I can NEVER be a Jehovah's Witness! Here is why! I attend a JW Zoom meeting tomorrow though!

[Dogknox20]

can you show me 2-3 scriptures that say there should be symbols used in worship?

cataway the Protestant has "Symbolic Communion"! The bread and wine to them are just symbols, although the scriptures tell them the bread IS the flesh of Jesus! (Flesh of God)
I must point out the root word for communion is "Communication" for the Protestant to be in Communication with a symbol is IDOLTRY!
Judas rejected the Bread as only symbolic flesh of Jesus; Satan entered Judas as he ate his symbol!

Just saying

 

[Dogknox20]

you is confusing creation with pro-creation

NOPE.....

cataway Love creates: Scriptures are clear.. "God is Love"! The love of a husband and wife creates children! Man in creating life takes part with God in creation; through love!
Again>>> "God IS Love"!

God creates man and man Procreates! Both working together create life through love!

 

[Bree]

Jesus is God...
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Bree The WORD made all things! What does logic tell you? and the Word was God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
The WORD became Man! and the Word was God.

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
Bree and the Word was God.

Jesus knows beyond all doubt.. ONLY God is to be worshiped! Jesus told Satan this Matthew 4:10! They Worship Jesus!! NEVER....

Bree never do you read Jesus correcting anyone saying "Don't worship me I am not God!" Jesus always allows those people around him to Worship Him! ONLY God is to be worshiped! IF...

Bree if Jesus was not God he would be worse then Satan who wanted to be worshiped! Jesus would be committing the worst of all sins possible!
Look at John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Jesus does NOT correct Thomas! Fact is; Jesus takes it one step further... Jesus tells him Christians will be Blessed those who have not seen Jesus yet have Faith as Thomas has! Clearly those who do not have faith; Jesus is God will not be blessed!
I am NOT a Church father. I am a nobody.. I am NOT a scripture scholar think about this... The Early Church fathers thrashed this out long ago, they rejected Arianism as a lie! These Church fathers are Experts Christians have decided long ago "Jesus is God"! Charles Taze Russell in 1872 decided Jesus is NOT God to do this he had to reject Logic, Scriptures and Christian belief! Fact is he had to change words in the bible to conform to his teaching!

If he was God, why call himself the 'son' ?

The idea that Jesus is God is completely out of harmony with what it would mean to be a 'son'

Also, scriptures say Jesus is 'begotten' .... it specifically says he is the 'only begotten son'
If Jesus is God, how can he be 'begotten'? He cannot be 'begotten' if he is God Eternal. God is not begotten by anyone.

Also, Jesus died and was buried. God cannot die.

Also Jesus is said to 'sit at Gods right hand'

All the scriptures trinitarians use to justify the claim that Jesus is God are being wrongly translated and the fact that not all translators agree with the rendering of John 1:1 just shows that it is not a scripture you should be relying on so strongly.


What did Jesus say about himself that proves he is not God but Gods representative?
John 14:2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes ...10 Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me?+ The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality;* but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works.+...28 I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater+ than I am.

John 12:49 because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.+

John 15::10 If YOU observe my commandments,+ YOU will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father+ and remain in his love.

1John 5; 3 For this is what the love+ of God means, that we observe his commandments

Revelvation 1:1 A revelation* by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,+ to show his slaves+ the things that must shortly take place.


And finally, if it was true that the Apostles and early christians really did believe that Jesus was God, then why did the
Anathemas Pronounced on Opposers in 325 CE in Nicea ever need to be formulated?
Part of that creed states:

“But as for those who say, There was [a time] when [the Son] was not, and, Before being born He was not, and that He came into existence out of nothing, or who assert that the Son of God is of a different hypostasis or substance, or is created, or is subject to alteration or change—these the Catholic Church anathematizes.”⁠3

this is proof that early christians did NOT believe or teach that Jesus was God. They stated "BUT AS FOR THOSE WHO SAY..."
meaning christians did not all believe in this new idea of the trinity. They introduced it much later after the Apostles were all gone. Over 200 years had passed before they subscribed to the trinity.

 

[cataway]

ya yep what Bree said

 

[cataway]

cataway the Protestant has "Symbolic Communion"! The bread and wine to them are just symbols, although the scriptures tell them the bread IS the flesh of Jesus! (Flesh of God)
I must point out the root word for communion is "Communication" for the Protestant to be in Communication with a symbol is IDOLTRY!
Judas rejected the Bread as only symbolic flesh of Jesus; Satan entered Judas as he ate his symbol!

Just saying

what about the cross ?? should the cross be used in worship ? there is scripture that says
''23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.''

 

[Spiderman]

If he was God, why call himself the 'son' ?

The idea that Jesus is God is completely out of harmony with what it would mean to be a 'son'

Also, scriptures say Jesus is 'begotten' .... it specifically says he is the 'only begotten son'
If Jesus is God, how can he be 'begotten'? He cannot be 'begotten' if he is God Eternal. God is not begotten by anyone.

Also, Jesus died and was buried. God cannot die.

Also Jesus is said to 'sit at Gods right hand'

All the scriptures trinitarians use to justify the claim that Jesus is God are being wrongly translated and the fact that not all translators agree with the rendering of John 1:1 just shows that it is not a scripture you should be relying on so strongly.


What did Jesus say about himself that proves he is not God but Gods representative?
John 14:2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes ...10 Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me?+ The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality;* but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works.+...28 I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater+ than I am.

John 12:49 because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.+

John 15::10 If YOU observe my commandments,+ YOU will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father+ and remain in his love.

1John 5; 3 For this is what the love+ of God means, that we observe his commandments

Revelvation 1:1 A revelation* by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,+ to show his slaves+ the things that must shortly take place.


And finally, if it was true that the Apostles and early christians really did believe that Jesus was God, then why did the
Anathemas Pronounced on Opposers in 325 CE in Nicea ever need to be formulated?
Part of that creed states:

“But as for those who say, There was [a time] when [the Son] was not, and, Before being born He was not, and that He came into existence out of nothing, or who assert that the Son of God is of a different hypostasis or substance, or is created, or is subject to alteration or change—these the Catholic Church anathematizes.”⁠3

this is proof that early christians did NOT believe or teach that Jesus was God. They stated "BUT AS FOR THOSE WHO SAY..."
meaning christians did not all believe in this new idea of the trinity. They introduced it much later after the Apostles were all gone. Over 200 years had passed before they subscribed to the trinity.

Jesus said "know you not, that you are gods"!

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?"

The Bible is very confusing, so much so that even Jehovah's witnesses reject much of it.

When a book is as confusing as the Bible, it needs an official interpretor. The Bible doesn't tell us how to interpret itself, or what books belong in the Canon. We need a Church for that.

Jesus didn't leave the early Christians with a Bible, he left them with a Church!

Outside of obedience to Church authority, there is pure confusion, division, incessant arguments, and using the Bible as the sole rule of faith is not supported in Scripture, and has done more to confuse, divide, anger, and lead people astray, than any other affliction to strike the sheepfold!

I prayed to the Holy Spirit many times for guidance! He told me the Holy Spirit speaks through the Church, the teachings of the magisterium, the Catechism, and the lives and teachings of the Saints!

He told me Jehovah's witnesses are a man made, small, unbiblical religion, that changed the Bible, and the words of Christ at every last supper account, to suit their agenda.

Jesus said "unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man, you have no life in you!"

Jehovah's witnesses lead people away from that important teaching, so that they are Spiritually bankrupt!

If I was the Devil, that is what I would want!

 

[cataway]

Jesus said "know you not, that you are gods"!

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?"

The Bible is very confusing, so much so that even Jehovah's witnesses reject much of it.

When a book is as confusing as the Bible, it needs an official interpretor. The Bible doesn't tell us how to interpret itself, or what books belong in the Canon. We need a Church for that.

Jesus didn't leave the early Christians with a Bible, he left them with a Church!

Outside of obedience to Church authority, there is pure confusion, division, incessant arguments, and using the Bible as the sole rule of faith is not supported in Scripture, and has done more to confuse, divide, anger, and lead people astray, than any other affliction to strike the sheepfold!

I prayed to the Holy Spirit many times for guidance! He told me the Holy Spirit speaks through the Church, the teachings of the magisterium, the Catechism, and the lives and teachings of the Saints!

He told me Jehovah's witnesses are a man made, small, unbiblical religion, that changed the Bible, and the words of Christ at every last supper account, to suit their agenda.

Jesus said "unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man, you have no life in you!"

Jehovah's witnesses lead people away from that important teaching, so that they are Spiritually bankrupt!

If I was the Devil, that is what I would want!

any thing can be a god . even the belly
19 Their end is destruction, and their god is their belly, and their glory is really their shame, and they have their minds on earthly things

 

[Dogknox20]

If he was God, why call himself the 'son' ?

The idea that Jesus is God is completely out of harmony with what it would mean to be a 'son'

Also, scriptures say Jesus is 'begotten' .... it specifically says he is the 'only begotten son'
If Jesus is God, how can he be 'begotten'? He cannot be 'begotten' if he is God Eternal. God is not begotten by anyone.

Also, Jesus died and was buried. God cannot die.

Also Jesus is said to 'sit at Gods right hand'

All the scriptures trinitarians use to justify the claim that Jesus is God are being wrongly translated and the fact that not all translators agree with the rendering of John 1:1 just shows that it is not a scripture you should be relying on so strongly.


What did Jesus say about himself that proves he is not God but Gods representative?
John 14:2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes ...10 Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me?+ The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality;* but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works.+...28 I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater+ than I am.

John 12:49 because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.+

John 15::10 If YOU observe my commandments,+ YOU will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father+ and remain in his love.

1John 5; 3 For this is what the love+ of God means, that we observe his commandments

Revelvation 1:1 A revelation* by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,+ to show his slaves+ the things that must shortly take place.


And finally, if it was true that the Apostles and early christians really did believe that Jesus was God, then why did the
Anathemas Pronounced on Opposers in 325 CE in Nicea ever need to be formulated?
Part of that creed states:

“But as for those who say, There was [a time] when [the Son] was not, and, Before being born He was not, and that He came into existence out of nothing, or who assert that the Son of God is of a different hypostasis or substance, or is created, or is subject to alteration or change—these the Catholic Church anathematizes.”⁠3

this is proof that early christians did NOT believe or teach that Jesus was God. They stated "BUT AS FOR THOSE WHO SAY..."
meaning christians did not all believe in this new idea of the trinity. They introduced it much later after the Apostles were all gone. Over 200 years had passed before they subscribed to the trinity.

.
Bree Good questions...
If he was God, why call himself the 'son' ?
The idea that Jesus is God is completely out of harmony with what it would mean to be a 'son'
Also, scriptures say Jesus is 'begotten' .... it specifically says he is the 'only begotten son'
If Jesus is God, how can he be 'begotten'? He cannot be 'begotten' if he is God Eternal. God is not begotten by anyone.

I reply: Jesus was "The WORD" until he was born! The WORD was begotten when he was born "Man"! Until the "Word" was born he was spirit after the Word was born he became Spirit/Flesh!
......................................
Begotten
VERB
begotten (past participle)

1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
   "they hoped that the King might beget an heir by his new queen"
   synonyms:
   father · sire · engender · generate · spawn · create · give life to · bring into being · bring into the world · have · procreate · reproduce · breed
2. give rise to; bring about.
   "success begets further success"
   synonyms:
   cause · give rise to · lead to · result in · bring about · create · produce ·
   [more]....................................................

Jesus became "Son" when he was born! God became Father when Jesus was born!

Something to think about..... "God is LOVE!" Scriptures tell you "God is Love"! No one can love themselves! Love of self is selfishness! Love of self is NOT real love!
God is PERFECT for God to be Perfect "Love" he needs a second someone to love! To have Perfect love you need at the very least "Two" (2)! God is perfect if God did not love perfectly he would not be God! WHAT....

Bree what does this tell you? Think about it; God would NOT be perfect "Love" if he was "One" (1) God loves "The Word" (person) the Word loves God (person) there were TWO (2) at the very beginning!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

There were TWO separate persons in the beginning! I say "Persons" to help our limited mind grasp the concept! If there is a PERFECT LOVE there has to be TWO (2)! More to think about...

Perfect love creates: The Love of husband and wife create "Life"! The Love of God and God The Word create the Holy Spirit! THE SPLIT SECOND......

Bree the split second there was God there was Three (3) because God is perfect there has to be three to have "Perfect Love"! I SAY....

I say "Split Second" to help grasp the idea; we both know God lives outside of time! So to be more precise: God has to be Three (3) because God is Perfect LOVE!
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 John 4:16
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.


.

 

[cataway]

Jesus said "know you not, that you are gods"!

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?"

The Bible is very confusing, so much so that even Jehovah's witnesses reject much of it.

When a book is as confusing as the Bible, it needs an official interpretor. The Bible doesn't tell us how to interpret itself, or what books belong in the Canon. We need a Church for that.

Jesus didn't leave the early Christians with a Bible, he left them with a Church!

Outside of obedience to Church authority, there is pure confusion, division, incessant arguments, and using the Bible as the sole rule of faith is not supported in Scripture, and has done more to confuse, divide, anger, and lead people astray, than any other affliction to strike the sheepfold!

I prayed to the Holy Spirit many times for guidance! He told me the Holy Spirit speaks through the Church, the teachings of the magisterium, the Catechism, and the lives and teachings of the Saints!

He told me Jehovah's witnesses are a man made, small, unbiblical religion, that changed the Bible, and the words of Christ at every last supper account, to suit their agenda.

Jesus said "unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man, you have no life in you!"

Jehovah's witnesses lead people away from that important teaching, so that they are Spiritually bankrupt!

If I was the Devil, that is what I would want!

you have said ''
The Bible is very confusing, so much so that even Jehovah's witnesses reject much of it.''
that is soooo untrue ,a down right lie .
who is it thats promoting such lie's to you?? the church?

 

[Spiderman]

.
Bree Good questions...
If he was God, why call himself the 'son' ?
The idea that Jesus is God is completely out of harmony with what it would mean to be a 'son'
Also, scriptures say Jesus is 'begotten' .... it specifically says he is the 'only begotten son'
If Jesus is God, how can he be 'begotten'? He cannot be 'begotten' if he is God Eternal. God is not begotten by anyone.

I reply: Jesus was "The WORD" until he was born! The WORD was begotten when he was born "Man"! Until the "Word" was born he was spirit after the Word was born he became Spirit/Flesh!
......................................
Begotten
VERB
begotten (past participle)

1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
   "they hoped that the King might beget an heir by his new queen"
   synonyms:
   father · sire · engender · generate · spawn · create · give life to · bring into being · bring into the world · have · procreate · reproduce · breed
2. give rise to; bring about.
   "success begets further success"
   synonyms:
   cause · give rise to · lead to · result in · bring about · create · produce ·
   [more]....................................................

Jesus became "Son" when he was born! God became Father when Jesus was born!

Something to think about..... "God is LOVE!" Scriptures tell you "God is Love"! No one can love themselves! Love of self is selfishness! Love of self is NOT real love!
God is PERFECT for God to be Perfect "Love" he needs a second someone to love! To have Perfect love you need at the very least "Two" (2)! God is perfect if God did not love perfectly he would not be God! WHAT....

Bree what does this tell you? Think about it; God would NOT be perfect "Love" if he was "One" (1) God loves "The Word" (person) the Word loves God (person) there were TWO (2) at the very beginning!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

There were TWO separate persons in the beginning! I say "Persons" to help our limited mind grasp the concept! If there is a PERFECT LOVE there has to be TWO (2)! More to think about...

Perfect love creates: The Love of husband and wife create "Life"! The Love of God and God The Word create the Holy Spirit! THE SPLIT SECOND......

Bree the split second there was God there was Three (3) because God is perfect there has to be three to have "Perfect Love"! I SAY....

I say "Split Second" to help grasp the idea; we both know God lives outside of time! So to be more precise: God has to be Three (3) because God is Perfect LOVE!
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 John 4:16
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.


.

Catholic Theologians make far more sense than Jehovah's witnesses, Catholic Apologists can put any Jw in their proper place, because Jehovah's witnesses twist Scripture, invent their own Scriptures, change the words of every last supper account to rebel against Christ.

The teachings about the Sacraments are so important, Jesus said we are Spiritually dead without them, so one could argue, Jehovah's witnesses are attempting to murder , harm, and bankrupt souls with their Unbiblical teachings, and changing Scripture and the words of Christ!

If I was the Devil, I would raise up a group like Jehovah's witnesses, to change words of Scripture, invent a new Bible, invent a new Religion, go door to door denying the Divinity of Christ, claim Jesus is Michael the Archangel, sow seeds of confusion and division, lead people away from the sacrament of confession and eucharist, and tell people the Church Jesus founded is evil, Pagan, Satanic, and attack Christianity, and Christian traditions, all of which Jehovah's witnesses do!

The Catholic canonized Saints were extremely holy, sacred, charitable, humble, devout, prayerful, God-fearing people, who loved God, sacrificed more for God, and demonstrated more holiness, wisdom, understanding, and the fruits of the holy Spirit, far greater than ANY Jehovah's witness denomination adherents!

 

[Spiderman]

you have said ''
The Bible is very confusing, so much so that even Jehovah's witnesses reject much of it.''
that is soooo untrue ,a down right lie .
who is it thats promoting such lie's to you?? the church?

See my post above this one!

You don't follow the Bible! Jesus said "listen to the Church". He didn't say anything about reading the Bible.

Using the Bible as the only rule for faith and the Theology, is a man made, Unbiblical tradition and practice!

The Bible needs an official interpreter. That's why Jesus left earth with a Church, built on Peter, the rock, first Bishop of Rome!

 

[2ndpillar]

can you show me 2-3 scriptures that say there should be symbols used in worship?

The cross was a symbol of the image of the sun god Sol Invictus, per Constantine's vision of 312 A.D., whose day of worship is Sunday. It would be considered an idol, in which the nations/gentiles worship the pagan Sun god. The "scriptures" kind of look down on having idols, graven images, as shown in the 2nd commandment, for which there are different scriptures listing that commandment, and per Revelation, in which mankind will continue to "worship demons" in this manner (Revelation 9:20). The commandments of God are to be kept per Ecclesiastes 12:13 by every person, and will be kept by those who "hold to the testimony of Yeshua (Revelation 12:17).

 

[cataway]

See my post above this one!

You don't follow the Bible! Jesus said "listen to the Church". He didn't say anything about reading the Bible.

Using the Bible as the only rule for faith and the Theology, is a man made, Unbiblical tradition and practice!

The Bible needs an official interpreter. That's why Jesus left earth with a Church, built on Peter, the rock, first Bishop of Rome!

interesting how you right off the bible and then use it to try to prove a point

 

[cataway]

See my post above this one!

You don't follow the Bible! Jesus said "listen to the Church". He didn't say anything about reading the Bible.

Using the Bible as the only rule for faith and the Theology, is a man made, Unbiblical tradition and practice!

The Bible needs an official interpreter. That's why Jesus left earth with a Church, built on Peter, the rock, first Bishop of Rome!

have you taken something out of context ?
15 “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.

 

[Spiderman]

have you taken something out of context ?
15 “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.

Jehovah's witnesses change the Bible and twist it to lead people away from Christ and damage or murder souls, by bankrupting them, causing confusion, leading people away from the sacraments, that Jesus said we are lifeless without.

You give a terrible translation of the Scriptures. Try the King James Version

Matthew 18:17
“And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.”

 

[2ndpillar]

The teachings about the Sacraments are so important, Jesus said we are Spiritually dead without them, so one could argue, Jehovah's witnesses are attempting to murder , harm, and bankrupt souls with their Unbiblical teachings, and changing Scripture and the words of Christ!

I think what Yeshua actually said was to "enter into life", which is to say not be spiritually dead, one must keep the Commandments. (Matthew 19:17). There were no 7 Catholic Sacraments taught by Yeshua in which you must follow or be "spiritually dead". His message was the kingdom of heaven, in which you must confess your sins to "one another", as put forth in James 5:16, repent, such as turn away from sinning, get baptized in the spirit, and produce good fruit (Matthew 3). Otherwise, you won't have to worry about your spiritual death, for you will be cut down and thrown into the fire, such as the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42). As for killing "souls", the combination of the dust of the earth, and the breath of God (Genesis 2:7), a foremost killer of souls, burning them alive, was the Roman Catholic church during their height of power. As for changing "Scripture", the Roman Catholics, crafted their own "Scripture", by initiating their canon, which was a combination of the message of the devil with the message of the son of man (Matthew 13:25 & 38). The "additions" made to the gospels were made under Roman Catholic supervision.

 

[Spiderman]

I think what Yeshua actually said was to "enter into life", which is to say not be spiritually dead, one must keep the Commandments. (Matthew 19:17). There were no 7 Catholic Sacraments taught by Yeshua in which you must follow or be "spiritually dead". His message was the kingdom of heaven, in which you must confess your sins to "one another", as put forth in James 5:16, repent, such as turn away from sinning, get baptized in the spirit, and produce good fruit (Matthew 3). Otherwise, you won't have to worry about your spiritual death, for you will be cut down and thrown into the fire, such as the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42). As for killing "souls", the combination of the dust of the earth, and the breath of God (Genesis 2:7), a foremost killer of souls, burning them alive, was the Roman Catholic church during their height of power. As for changing "Scripture", the Roman Catholics, crafted their own "Scripture", by initiating their canon, which was a combination of the message of the devil with the message of the son of man (Matthew 13:25 & 38). The "additions" made to the gospels were made under Roman Catholic supervision.

What additions made to the Gospels!??

Protestants and Catholics have the same Gospels, but Jehovah's witnesses changed much of the wordings of the Gospels, even changed the words of Jesus at every last supper account!

If I were the Devil, I would do just that , to lead people away from the eucharist!

 

[cataway]

Jehovah's witnesses change the Bible and twist it to lead people away from Christ and damage or murder souls, by bankrupting them, causing confusion, leading people away from the sacraments, that Jesus said we are lifeless without.

You give a terrible translation of the Scriptures. Try the King James Version

Matthew 18:17
“And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.”

bankrupting them??, there is no tithing in the JW organization . did someone say there is ?
church and congregation are really the same word .yet in today's time church means a building

 

[cataway]

What additions made to the Gospels!??

Protestants and Catholics have the same Gospels, but Jehovah's witnesses changed much of the wordings of the Gospels, even changed the words of Jesus at every last supper account!

If I were the Devil, I would do just that , to lead people away from the eucharist!

you should be aware that the Protestants and Catholics have done the same thing you accuse the JW's of doing

 

[Dogknox20]

If he was God, why call himself the 'son' ?

The idea that Jesus is God is completely out of harmony with what it would mean to be a 'son'

Also, scriptures say Jesus is 'begotten' .... it specifically says he is the 'only begotten son'
If Jesus is God, how can he be 'begotten'? He cannot be 'begotten' if he is God Eternal. God is not begotten by anyone.

Also, Jesus died and was buried. God cannot die.

Also Jesus is said to 'sit at Gods right hand'

All the scriptures trinitarians use to justify the claim that Jesus is God are being wrongly translated and the fact that not all translators agree with the rendering of John 1:1 just shows that it is not a scripture you should be relying on so strongly.


What did Jesus say about himself that proves he is not God but Gods representative?
John 14:2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes ...10 Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me?+ The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality;* but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works.+...28 I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater+ than I am.

John 12:49 because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.+

John 15::10 If YOU observe my commandments,+ YOU will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father+ and remain in his love.

1John 5; 3 For this is what the love+ of God means, that we observe his commandments

Revelvation 1:1 A revelation* by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,+ to show his slaves+ the things that must shortly take place.


And finally, if it was true that the Apostles and early christians really did believe that Jesus was God, then why did the
Anathemas Pronounced on Opposers in 325 CE in Nicea ever need to be formulated?
Part of that creed states:

“But as for those who say, There was [a time] when [the Son] was not, and, Before being born He was not, and that He came into existence out of nothing, or who assert that the Son of God is of a different hypostasis or substance, or is created, or is subject to alteration or change—these the Catholic Church anathematizes.”⁠3

this is proof that early christians did NOT believe or teach that Jesus was God. They stated "BUT AS FOR THOSE WHO SAY..."
meaning christians did not all believe in this new idea of the trinity. They introduced it much later after the Apostles were all gone. Over 200 years had passed before they subscribed to the trinity.

If he was God, why call himself the 'son' ?
Answer is He was with God as "The Word"!
When He was born he was called Son!
He was begotten and became Son when he became man!

Bree Jesus is the ONLY Son he is the ONLY Child of God.. Christians are ADFOPTED CHILDREN! All Christians are Adopted into God' family by being IMMERSED into the body of Jesus!
Baptism ADDS Christians to Jesus' body! vALL IN Jesus are God' children!
Yes the Father is greater then Jesus ... The Man! Jesus God is equal to the Father! The WORD is equal to the Father!
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

Bree You pointed out... Jesus died and was buried. God cannot die.
EXACTLY... God cannot die because Only God is PERFECT sinless! Jesus popped up out of the grave because "God cannot die"!
Jesus cannot die because Jesus IS God!

Bree You pointed out... Jesus is said to 'sit at Gods right hand'
Take your pick; Generally signifies closeness (Ps. 16:8), possession (Ps. 78:54), authority (Ps. 110:1), honor (Ps. 45:9), or power (Ps. 60:5, 118:16).
All the above point to Jesus!

You said... All the scriptures trinitarians use to justify the claim that Jesus is God are being wrongly translated and the fact that not all translators agree with the rendering of John 1:1 just shows that it is not a scripture you should be relying on so strongly.

Fact is ALL translators do agree with the rendering of John 1:1! It is your NWT that does NOT agree with what over 60 translators! Your NWT was not written until the 1900!
"The Word was God"! You are forced to reject what was always written for your translation!
ARIUS was rejected by Christians because he rejected what Christians HAVE ALWAYS Believed! Christians have believed Jesus is God long before any bible was written!