I Can Not Respect A God who Allows Children to Suffer

[MSizer]

I consider the explanation for the problem of evil using free will to be an ignorant one, but even if it were true, many innocent people, including children and non-human animals suffer as a result of things not caused by the free will of humans.

Babies were partially crushed and suffocated in collapsed buildings in Haity recently. A God who could allow such a thing is a horrific character IMO, and one to whom I could ever show any respect, no matter the consequences.

How do you justify worshipping a God who allegedly allows this?

 

[tarasan]

I consider the explanation for the problem of evil using free will to be an ignorant one, but even if it were true, many innocent people, including children and non-human animals suffer as a result of things not caused by the free will of humans.

Babies were partially crushed and suffocated in collapsed buildings in Haity recently. That is not a God I could ever show any respect, no matter the consequences.

How do you justify worshipping a God who allegedly allows this?

because there is imperfection which is not caused by God but by us, I know I know, its hard for us to continually take the blame but there you go, just be glad he has been spending all this time trying to get back in communion with us again,

 

[MSizer]

because there is imperfection which is not caused by God but by us, I know I know, its hard for us to continually take the blame but there you go, just be glad he has been spending all this time trying to get back in communion with us again,

We caused such things? And He has been "trying all this time to get back in communion with us" but has not succeeded. This argument doesn't say much for his omnipotence, nor does it explain how the suffering is in any way justifiable.

 

[tarasan]

We caused such things? And He has been "trying all this time to get back in communion with us" but has not succeeded. This argument doesn't say much for his omnipotence, nor does it explain how the suffering is in any way justifiable.

btw cute photo......

not really its not so much of his omnipotence but our lacking of it, to keep our free will in place then he has to let us make the decision, but we are incapable, hence christ. the suffering isnt justifiable but we are the ones that are to blame not God he didnt Sin

 

[Reverend Rick]

I just have to ask Mike, how could you respect a God you don't believe in even if he did not allow children to suffer?

 

[bobhikes]

I consider the explanation for the problem of evil using free will to be an ignorant one, but even if it were true, many innocent people, including children and non-human animals suffer as a result of things not caused by the free will of humans.

Babies were partially crushed and suffocated in collapsed buildings in Haity recently. A God who could allow such a thing is a horrific character IMO, and one to whom I could ever show any respect, no matter the consequences.

How do you justify worshipping a God who allegedly allows this?

What about the Countries, Businesses, and Humans on this earth that allow it or worse yet actually cause it. Do you respect them?

 

[dust1n]

What about the Countries, Businesses, and Humans on this earth that allow it or worse yet actually cause it. Do you respect them?

Hell no. And for their to be an existence of god that allows humans to allows is just as bad as it directly allowing it.

 

[MSizer]

I just have to ask Mike, how could you respect a God you don't believe in even if he did not allow children to suffer?

It's an intellectual argument. For the sake of debate, I'm granting that the Abrahamic god exists, even though I don't believe it to be so. I'm just pointing out that even if he did exist, I'd not be able to revere him.

 

[MSizer]

Hell no. And for their to be an existence of god that allows humans to allows is just as bad as it directly allowing it.

Exactly, aside from the fact that in reality, it's not possible to know all of the effects each of our actions will cause all the way down the line. Some immediate effects are obvious, some more peripheral ones are not. But God is allegedly omnicient and omnipotent, so we have an excuse for the unintended pain we cause. God does not.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I really doubt God causes or allows such events to happen. Tectonic plates shifted, the earth rumbled, and why God would be need to be mentioned is beyond me.

 

[tarasan]

Exactly, aside from the fact that in reality, it's not possible to know all of the effects each of our actions will cause all the way down the line. Some immediate effects are obvious, some more peripheral ones are not. But God is allegedly omnicient and omnipotent, so we have an excuse for the unintended pain we cause. God does not.

we are the one that causes that pain though, the very fact that he sent Jesus (if your granting everything shows he wants to put everything right again)

and for all you know he may very well have a good reason for keep ing us this way, so your being presumptious.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I still find some way to respect humanity despite its ability to bring about untold suffering to the innocent.

 

[tarasan]

I still find some way to respect humanity despite its ability to bring about untold suffering to the innocent.

indeed

 

[MSizer]

we are the one that causes that pain though, the very fact that he sent Jesus (if your granting everything shows he wants to put everything right again).

OK, so let's say that my sins are a source of pain. Why should a baby, not two hours old be torn from her mother's arms, impaled and roasted over an open fire? (that happened to a number of babies in India a few years ago) How can you possibly argue that there is any fairness in that at all?

and for all you know he may very well have a good reason for keep ing us this way, so your being presumptious.

Presumptuous? He "may" have a good reason? That sort of weak-kneed stance doesn't cut for me. That's why I have no respect for theology. It's like philosophy, except the main difference is that in theology when logic or evidence don't support your idea, you're permitted to ignore them as you wish, and then bring them back in again when they appear to support you.

 

[tarasan]

Presumptuous? He "may" have a good reason? That sort of weak-kneed stance doesn't cut for me. That's why I have no respect for theology. It's like philosophy, except the main difference is that in theology when logic or evidence don't support your idea, you're permitted to ignore them as you wish, and then bring them back in again when they appear to support you.

so long as it is even possible I can logically and rationally hold that stance, the reason it doesnt cut it for you Msizer is because you expect God to sort everything out on your time, because you as you have admitted (least i think it was you) that God can see everything, if that is the case then couldnt there be a viable reason as to why he holds back? you have no idea, you just assume that there isnt. It just as bad a position to take as mine.

(i wont argue the first statement cause i think it can be included in this response?)

 

[bobhikes]

Exactly, aside from the fact that in reality, it's not possible to know all of the effects each of our actions will cause all the way down the line. Some immediate effects are obvious, some more peripheral ones are not. But God is allegedly omnicient and omnipotent, so we have an excuse for the unintended pain we cause. God does not.

To the omnicient and omnipotent god, maybe this life isn't important and all this pain so many people are in really doesn't exist. It only is pain in your mind. You can not feel another's so called pain. A fun fact is that many of the poorest countries happiness is higher than the richest countries by survey.

We are all caught up in this world and how bad or good it is. How smart, rich and healthy we are here and now. Our feelings are depended on this and how lives of others have this, yet how much do we do to change this ourselves. We do very little to benefit or own needs and even less others. What if none of that really mattered or was even real. What if the next life was all that really mattered. Good and Bad, Rich and Poor, Happy and Sad don't exist in the next life. Is anything that happens here a problem at all then.

 

[MSizer]

To the omnicient and omnipotent god, maybe this life isn't important and all this pain so many people are in really doesn't exist. It only is pain in your mind. You can not feel another's so called pain. A fun fact is that many of the poorest countries happiness is higher than the richest countries by survey.

We are all caught up in this world and how bad or good it is. How smart, rich and healthy we are here and now. Our feelings are depended on this and how lives of others have this, yet how much do we do to change this ourselves. We do very little to benefit or own needs and even less others. What if none of that really mattered or was even real. What if the next life was all that really mattered. Good and Bad, Rich and Poor, Happy and Sad don't exist in the next life. Is anything that happens here a problem at all then.

I challenge you to walk up to a father whose young daughter was just raped and killed and tell him this.

 

[tarasan]

I challenge you to walk up to a father whose young daughter was just raped and killed and tell him this.

you can emotionalise everything M but sometimes its just how life is.

 

[MSizer]

so long as it is even possible I can logically and rationally hold that stance, the reason it doesnt cut it for you Msizer is because you expect God to sort everything out on your time, because you as you have admitted (least i think it was you) that God can see everything, if that is the case then couldnt there be a viable reason as to why he holds back? you have no idea, you just assume that there isnt. It just as bad a position to take as mine.

(i wont argue the first statement cause i think it can be included in this response?)

So "perhaps we just can't know" is a reasonable cause for claiming in something that can't be substantiated?

OK, well then, let me take the "equally reasonable" logic and make a few claims myself. Maybe people are really made of sand and nothing more, but the whole thing is illusory, except that our sense data is manipulated by an evil spirit who tricks us into thinking that we are made of flesh and bone. You don't know it's not the case, so by your logic, it's perfectly reasonable.

 

[tarasan]

So "perhaps we just can't know" is a reasonable cause for claiming in something that can't be substantiated?

OK, well then, let me take the "equally reasonable" logic and make a few claims myself. Maybe people are really made of sand and nothing more, but the whole thing is illusory, except that our sense data is manipulated by an evil spirit who tricks us into thinking that we are made of flesh and bone. You don't know it's not the case, so by your logic, it's perfectly reasonable.

erm that isnt what im claiming at all....... Im claiming that so long as it is possible that a good reason exists you cant rule it out, thats why its logical. the jargon you wrote is meaningless, and your claiming that my God is immoral and that cant be substantiated so please no more double standard.