I Can Not Respect A God who Allows Children to Suffer

[LyricalDutchess]

Many of us wouldnt. I know for me, the suffering i went through for most of my life strengthened me to become the woman i am today. Thing is, suffering will always be here until the last day. Because again, we all have the right to make our own choices. Its a part of life.

If God were to step in and keep every bad thing from happening, He would be considered a tyrant. Because stepping in every time would infringe on their right to make that choice. And since He doesnt step in every time, He's the bad guy. For many, God is damned if He do, damned if He dont.

 

[MSizer]

Many of us wouldnt. I know for me, the suffering i went through for most of my life strengthened me to become the woman i am today.

But an omnimax god could have made you a strong woman without allowing you to suffer for it. When your kids ask for something, do you say to them "first I want you to run outside and scrape your knee, so that you don't think life is easy"? Of course not, there's no logical explanation for such a thing.

Thing is, suffering will always be here until the last day. Because again, we all have the right to make our own choices. Its a part of life..

The suffereing of a crushed newborn in a hospital in Haiti has nothing to do with choice.

If God were to step in and keep every bad thing from happening, He would be considered a tyrant. .

How could this possibly be? Do you call police tyrants when they arrest criminals?

Because stepping in every time would infringe on their right to make that choice. And since He doesnt step in every time, He's the bad guy. For many, God is damned if He do, damned if He dont.

No, by me, he is only damned for what what he has allegedly done. So then in Heaven will people continue to cause suffering to each other? If not, is this not because somehow God has made Heaven in such a way that this is not possible? Then he is guilty of making it possible on earth, and damned by me for it. (of course it seems obvious to me that the abrahamic god is merely a mythological character, but that's besides the point of this argument).

 

[LyricalDutchess]

No. Satan brought sin into existence. But so His creations wouldnt serve Him out of fear, He let sin run its course. As i said in my first comment in this thread, i cant say i understand all that God allows to happen, but it does. Its again, a part of life. Its a cycle. I know my mom told us while we were growing up. Not all of our trials are for us. But for others. So that one who may not be strong enough to deal with it can see that there is hope and that they can get through it. It was hard for me to understand because i went through a horrific period in my life. And know see my testimony has helped many.

It all comes down to how we handle what life throws us. It was never promised to be easy.

 

[MSizer]

No. Satan brought sin into existence. .

Satan was a creation of god. I can't see how God can sit back, look at satan and Hitler and Pol Pot and say to himself "that's a mighty fine job I've done".

But so His creations wouldnt serve Him out of fear, He let sin run its course. .

If he were all powerful, one would not be contingent on the other. There is no connection between sin and fear of god. He could have simply put us all in heaven right away so that we all love and nobody sins, and nobody has to be tortured for eternity in hell. But he chose not to.

As i said in my first comment in this thread, i cant say i understand all that God allows to happen, but it does. Its again, a part of life. Its a cycle. I know my mom told us while we were growing up. Not all of our trials are for us. But for others. So that one who may not be strong enough to deal with it can see that there is hope and that they can get through it. .

That's teleology.

It was hard for me to understand because i went through a horrific period in my life. And know see my testimony has helped many.

It all comes down to how we handle what life throws us. It was never promised to be easy.

But if an omnimax benevolent god existed, there is no reason why it couldn't have been.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

There is a connection between sin and fearing God. Had God destroyed satan, none would want that fate. So they would have served Him out of fear. Believe it or not, God created us out of love. I dont have to answers to everything. Im not God. Yes, He is all knowing. And He knew many would reject Him, yet He created us all anyways. And even before He created everything, Jesus Christ made the decision to be a living sacrifice for us. We had a savior, even before we had a creator.

 

[Peacewise]

Is a parent responsible for every mistake their child makes? When does this stop, 15 years old, 19, 21 50?

Responsibility is the key. If for the sake of argument God created us and gave us free will and some guidelines to live by and humanity chooses to not live within those guidelines then the consequences are our responsibility.

The lad who doesn't brush his teeth. Is it his fault his teeth fall out? Or is it his parents fault for not forcing him to brush his teeth? Or is it societies fault for having so many high sugar foods so easily available?

Any other answer than, it's the lad's fault is simply not recognizing the responsibility we have to ourself.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Life is a learning experience. And no matter what dangers and evil roam, i enjoy living. i have made the conscience decision to make my suffering my personal testimony. And no matter how awful it was, i wouldnt change it for anything. Because it has made me the woman i am today.

 

[Danmac]

I consider the explanation for the problem of evil using free will to be an ignorant one, but even if it were true, many innocent people, including children and non-human animals suffer as a result of things not caused by the free will of humans.

Babies were partially crushed and suffocated in collapsed buildings in Haity recently. A God who could allow such a thing is a horrific character IMO, and one to whom I could ever show any respect, no matter the consequences.

How do you justify worshipping a God who allegedly allows this?

Why are you blaming God?

 

[MSizer]

Is a parent responsible for every mistake their child makes? When does this stop, 15 years old, 19, 21 50?

Responsibility is the key. If for the sake of argument God created us and gave us free will and some guidelines to live by and humanity chooses to not live within those guidelines then the consequences are our responsibility.

The lad who doesn't brush his teeth. Is it his fault his teeth fall out? Or is it his parents fault for not forcing him to brush his teeth? Or is it societies fault for having so many high sugar foods so easily available?

Any other answer than, it's the lad's fault is simply not recognizing the responsibility we have to ourself.

That entire analogy is completely fallacious, since parents aren't omnimax beings. We don't have the alleged powers god has over our children.

 

[MSizer]

Why are you blaming God?

Becuase he is allegedly capable of preventing it, but clearly he does not.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

So you think that if God was real, He should prevent all bad things from happening?

 

[MSizer]

Life is a learning experience. And no matter what dangers and evil roam, i enjoy living. i have made the conscience decision to make my suffering my personal testimony. And no matter how awful it was, i wouldnt change it for anything. Because it has made me the woman i am today.

Well if that's your logic, then why don't you purposely cause yourself more suffering? It would make you even stronger still. You should be out right now trying to contract a disease and destroying your posessions.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Would it make it better if we were all immortal? Because even the death of a loved is bad for those left behind to grieve their passing.

 

[MSizer]

So you think that if God was real, He should prevent all bad things from happening?

Absolutely. If you stood by the side of the road and saw a child preparing to pounce out into traffic, would you not stop her? If you just let her jump, would you not be at least partially guilty for any ensuing tradgedy? Absolutely.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Well if that's your logic, then why don't you purposely cause yourself more suffering? It would make you even stronger still. You should be out right now trying to contract a disease and destroying your posessions.

No. That would be reckless. I choose to take life as it comes. Because i KNOW its not easy and not everything goes my way. But i take it day by day. And the suffering i went through, wasnt of my own doing. But i could either let it destroy me, or to make me stronger. And i chose the latter.

 

[MSizer]

Would it make it better if we were all immortal?.

No

Because even the death of a loved is bad for those left behind to grieve their passing.

Exactly, only one other inexplicable phenonmenon if you subscribe to the alleged omnimax benevolent god.

 

[MSizer]

No. That would be reckless. I choose to take life as it comes. Because i KNOW its not easy and not everything goes my way. But i take it day by day. And the suffering i went through, wasnt of my own doing. But i could either let it destroy me, or to make me stronger. And i chose the latter.

OK, so I don't get it. Is suffering good for you or bad for you? Because you claim to not wish away your previous suffering, yet you don't welcome potential suffering. Those claims are incongruent.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Absolutely. If you stood by the side of the road and saw a child preparing to pounce out into traffic, would you not stop her? If you just let her jump, would you not be at least partially guilty for any ensuing tradgedy? Absolutely.

But just as any parent can do with their child, you teach them the way they should go. Tell them what they need to do to be safe. But a child cant rely on the parent to save them from everything every time. You tell a child not to touch the oven because it can burn. If they refuse to heed your words, is it your fault when they do get burned? Even after several times of it? When is the cut off point? Only babies should be on milk.

 

[MSizer]

But just as any parent can do with their child, you teach them the way they should go. Tell them what they need to do to be safe. But a child cant rely on the parent to save them from everything every time. You tell a child not to touch the oven because it can burn. If they refuse to heed your words, is it your fault when they do get burned? Even after several times of it? When is the cut off point? Only babies should be on milk.

No, but you're not god. You didn't have the power to create a life without suffering for your child, so the comparison isn't valid.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

OK, so I don't get it. Is suffering good for you or bad for you? Because you claim to not wish away your previous suffering, yet you don't welcome potential suffering. Those claims are incongruent.

It really isnt. Because my previous suffering has resulted in my strong character. Had it not happened, i doubt i would have turned out the way i am. It forced me see some thing more clearly and faster than i would have had i not. And i also see that my suffering has helped many get through the same thing i did. Because they see how i pressed through, it gives them the strength to do the same. And i wouldnt change that for anything.

Suffering is hard to go through. Its hard to witness. But how you choose to let it shape you can make it good or bad. What the devil meant for evil, because I allow Him to work through and in me, God has always turned it out for my good.