I Can Only Conclude That God Doesn't Care

[Skwim]

What if His message was not meant to be understandable and unambiguous to the masses?

Then just what small, privileged, band of readers might have been given a true understanding of the Bible?

And what is so detrimental about God creating evil?

Errrr. . . . By definition, evil ain't desirable.

"Full Definition of evil
evil·er or evil·lerevil·est or evil·lest

1
a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse>
b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation>

2
a archaic : inferior
b : causing discomfort or repulsion : offensive <an evil odor>
c : disagreeable <woke late and in an evil temper>

3
a : causing harm : pernicious <the evil institution of slavery>
b : marked by misfortune : unlucky
Source: Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
​

Now, if you can't figure out why any of these aren't desirable then you have my condolences.

Wouldn't we expect an omnipotent God to utilize the evil and ambiguity He created for the greater and ultimate good?

Not this "we." I would expect an omnipotent, omnibenovlent god to be able to create the greater and ultimate good without resorting to morally reprehensible and harmful means.


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[james2ko]

Then just what small, privileged, band of readers might have been given a true understanding of the Bible?

It will be disclosed soon.

Errrr. . . . By definition, evil ain't desirable.

"Full Definition of evil
evil·er or evil·lerevil·est or evil·lest

1
a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse>
b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation>

2
a archaic : inferior
b : causing discomfort or repulsion : offensive <an evil odor>
c : disagreeable <woke late and in an evil temper>

3
a : causing harm : pernicious <the evil institution of slavery>
b : marked by misfortune : unlucky
Source: Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
​

Now, if you can't figure out why any of these aren't desirable then you have my condolences.

Our desires in this age have very little to do with God's desire for the greater good of humanity in the future.

Not this "we." I would expect an omnipotent, omnibenovlent god to be able to create the greater and ultimate good without resorting to morally reprehensible and harmful means.

Your expectations are limited by your lack of knowledge and understanding of our world or even yourself. Unless you know the names of all 300+ sextillion stars or how many hairs you have on your head, should we not expect you or anyone else to fully know and understand the plans and actions of an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God who does know and comprehend these things (Ps 147:4;Mat 10:30)?

 

[Muffled]

None here. You believe you're god's chosen loudspeaker, or at least one of them. Believe whatever you like.



When you say things like, "I believe . . . . " it denotes a certain amount of uncertainty. A better assertion of certainty would be, "I know. . . . ," or, "I'm sure. . . . " or "I'm certain . . . ."


.

I believe I am not expressing my uncertainty but the uncertainty of others who do not wish for me to express certainty.

What I believe is not the question but whether what I believe has veracity or not. I believe it does. Can you say it does not?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Your expectations are limited by your lack of knowledge and understanding of our world or even yourself. Unless you know the names of all 300+ sextillion stars or how many hairs you have on your head, should we not expect you or anyone else to fully know and understand the plans and actions of an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God who does know and comprehend these things (Ps 147:4;Mat 10:30)?

What if we know things that God (as portrayed in the bible, anyway) SHOULD have known? Insects have 6 legs, not 4? Bats aren't birds? There are more gender options than male and female? Not raising Your kids (from A&E onwards) is a surefire way to make sure they screw up?

"BibleGod", quite frequently, acts like a business owner who doesn't pay his employees consistently, refuses to supply them, uses any profits to buy a Ferrari ... AND is desperate to figure out why things aren't running well.

 

[james2ko]

What if we know things that God (as portrayed in the bible, anyway) SHOULD have known? Insects have 6 legs, not 4?

1. You think it is logical for someone who claims to not only count to 300+ sextillion, but actually remember that many names and who claims to have made these creatures, to not know the difference between 4 and 6???

To answer your objection, you are reading the bible based on your limited knowledge and understanding of the Hebrews. The Hebrews regarded the two large, hopping hind limbs of the locust and the other flying insects of the same type, which are the only types of insects mentioned here (we now translate "beetle" as "cricket" --KJV), as something different than the other four limbs because they were used primarily for vertical propulsion, whereas the other four limbs or legs were for scurrying/creeping around.

Bats aren't birds?

2. First off, the Linnean classification of what a "bird" was did not exist at the time Leviticus and Deuteronomy were written. Second, the Hebrew word "owph", mistranslated birds, simply means "owner of a wing", which comes from a root word which means to cover or to fly.

There are more gender options than male and female? Not raising Your kids (from A&E onwards) is a surefire way to make sure they screw up?

3. God is responsible for creating them also:

Ecc 7:13 Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which He hath made crooked?​

"BibleGod", quite frequently, acts like a business owner who doesn't pay his employees consistently, refuses to supply them, uses any profits to buy a Ferrari ... AND is desperate to figure out why things aren't running well.

4. The "BibleGod" is more like the business owner who supplies His employees only the knowledge they need for the time being to be successful. They follow His "work" rules, no matter how chaotic the work environment may seem. These employees have the faith and confidence in their boss , who knows them and the world better than they know themselves and the world, is still in control. And if their confidence in Him perseveres, the boss will pay them handsomely when the job is complete.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

The prevailing claim of the Abrahamic religions is that through either direct construct or divine inspiration god saw to it that his message was recorded, and recorded correctly. And my guess is that, being god, he would have seen to it that this message was both understandable and unambiguous. Moreover, he would never be so derelict and inefficient as to fill it with inconsequentials or irrelevancies. He said what had to be said, and nothing more and nothing less.

Yet, today we have nearly a couple hundred versions of the Bible in English alone. Why so many? Because people disagree as to what the Bible should say and/or how. Take Isaiah 45:7 where the Hebrew word רַע ra` is translated as

evil
disaster
calamity
doom
trouble(s)
bad times
discord
woe
hard times​

depending on which version of the Bible one reads.

So, which is right? And how would one know? Thing is, they don't mean the same thing. Evil is hardly a synonym for hard times, nor is woe synonymous with doom. I doubt that god would ever have penned such confusion in his original, permitting his followers to fumble over his words or mistake what he was trying to get across. Consider: as a history teacher would you hand out a different reason for the origin of WWI to each student? Of course not. So one has to wonder why god went to the trouble having his word recorded and then not care how it was passed along. Either it wasn't meant to impact anyone other than those who read the original text, or he simply doesn't care what later readers get out of it. In effect, it doesn't matter today if one Christian believes he created evil and another gets the impression he only created hard times. If it did matter, then one would expect god to set things straight, making sure that the message he took the trouble to set forth was clear and unambiguous; that every English Bible said the very same thing, either literally or by implication. There wouldn't be nine English versions of רַע ra` meaning very different things. God would make sure that in Isaiah 45:7 every reader knows he had created evil, or whatever, and not something else.

Because of the preceding I can only surmise that god doesn't really care what the Christian does with his word. "Believe this or believe that, I really don't care. Think my word tells you you can get into my heaven by works? Fine. Think my word tells you you can get into my heaven by my grace? Fine. It really doesn't matter. Believe whatever you like."


So, how close to the truth am I here?

.

You're getting closer, because you are asking excellent questions.
But remember this verse:

Proverbs 25:2 ... It is the glory of God to hide things but the glory of kings to investigate them.

If it was entirely straightforward, then your life would be as meaningless as a robot.

 

[Skwim]

Proverbs 25:2 ... It is the glory of God to hide things but the glory of kings to investigate them.

How would hiding things be "the glory of god"? Whatever that means. And how would investigating things be " the glory of kings"? Whatever that means.

If it was entirely straightforward, then your life would be as meaningless as a robot.

Whaaaatt? This sounds kind of goofy. Care to explain?


.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

How would hiding things be "the glory of god"? Whatever that means. And how would investigating things be " the glory of kings"? Whatever that means.


Whaaaatt? This sounds kind of goofy. Care to explain?


.

I can only explain by an example.
Imagine being the person to discover electricity, or any discovery, like say Isaac Newton.
Well God hid away these laws of nature, and Newton became like a King in making the discovery.

Or Darwin perhaps. The bible does not explain paleontology, so that was hidden.
Darwin became like a King too. Of course, not literally with a crown. But a king in the sense
that they were leaders. (I think the word 'king' would be better replaced with 'leader' from a translation point of view)

As for being a robot,
if we knew everything about everything then we would all live perfect lives.
A perfect life would have no choices, because we would always make perfect decisions.

 

[savagewind]

Take it up in the Judaism DIR?

Then start a thread about it?
/suggestions/

But I think they care nothing for the Greek scriptures.

 

[savagewind]

The O.T isn't in Greek.

OK. Now I can feel the wheels turning, You said to bring it up in the Judaism DIR. The OT isn't in Greek. You mean it wasn't in Greek. I think it is now.
I do not know what you mean. This is what I said: ""I am amazed that in this world of confusion and lies anyone would "assume" that the Bible, the whole Bible and nothing but the Bible has been understood, and therefore, copied correctly."" The Whole Bible includes the Greek scriptures. Thank you for talking to me. I get to practice my typing.

 

[savagewind]

your wheels?
The O.T generally is in English, if you have an english language Bible. Do you read the Greek Bible and assume it is exactly translated from the Hebrew.? /the O.T.

No

You brought it up.

I can feel my brain again. I have to examine what you mean again. I might not do it three times. I suppose I could split it up. I am going to tell you something. I have not found ONE Jesus believer who cares to listen to me. And you say why not talk to the Jews about it. Thank you for the laugh.

 

[savagewind]

Hence why you should reconcile the /theoretical/, faulty translations.

I know you do not mean to write the book over. So, what DO you mean? Do mean to get in line with you? That would be a, no thank you.

 

[savagewind]

What line?

I think that if you will look in front of you and behind you you might see what line.

One simple word to define it is; Tradition.

 

[savagewind]

Which/what tradition. There are many different religious ideas so forth.

It is human tradition to settle. Everyone has settled. I have not settled.

 

[savagewind]

Too vague.

OK. Opinion noted

 

[katiemygirl]

The prevailing claim of the Abrahamic religions is that through either direct construct or divine inspiration god saw to it that his message was recorded, and recorded correctly. And my guess is that, being god, he would have seen to it that this message was both understandable and unambiguous. Moreover, he would never be so derelict and inefficient as to fill it with inconsequentials or irrelevancies. He said what had to be said, and nothing more and nothing less.

Yet, today we have nearly a couple hundred versions of the Bible in English alone. Why so many? Because people disagree as to what the Bible should say and/or how. Take Isaiah 45:7 where the Hebrew word רַע ra` is translated as

evil
disaster
calamity
doom
trouble(s)
bad times
discord
woe
hard times​

depending on which version of the Bible one reads.

So, which is right? And how would one know? Thing is, they don't mean the same thing. Evil is hardly a synonym for hard times, nor is woe synonymous with doom. I doubt that god would ever have penned such confusion in his original, permitting his followers to fumble over his words or mistake what he was trying to get across. Consider: as a history teacher would you hand out a different reason for the origin of WWI to each student? Of course not. So one has to wonder why god went to the trouble having his word recorded and then not care how it was passed along. Either it wasn't meant to impact anyone other than those who read the original text, or he simply doesn't care what later readers get out of it. In effect, it doesn't matter today if one Christian believes he created evil and another gets the impression he only created hard times. If it did matter, then one would expect god to set things straight, making sure that the message he took the trouble to set forth was clear and unambiguous; that every English Bible said the very same thing, either literally or by implication. There wouldn't be nine English versions of רַע ra` meaning very different things. God would make sure that in Isaiah 45:7 every reader knows he had created evil, or whatever, and not something else.

Because of the preceding I can only surmise that god doesn't really care what the Christian does with his word. "Believe this or believe that, I really don't care. Think my word tells you you can get into my heaven by works? Fine. Think my word tells you you can get into my heaven by my grace? Fine. It really doesn't matter. Believe whatever you like."


So, how close to the truth am I here?

.

When we attempt to apply human understanding and reasoning to God's actions, we are not taking into consideration what the Lord told us in Isaiah 55:8-11.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

We can't expect God to act within the confines of our human reasoning and understanding.

I think you have concluded wrongly. God very much cares for you.

The Bible explicitly tells us that God loves and cares about YOU. Matter of fact, He loved YOU so much, He sent His only Son to die in YOUR place.

If you draw near to Him, He will draw near to you (James 4:8).

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

1. You think it is logical for someone who claims to not only count to 300+ sextillion, but actually remember that many names and who claims to have made these creatures, to not know the difference between 4 and 6???

We can count that high too, though. Whether we have the patience for it is another story. Besides, IIRC, Albert Einstein sucked at basic math even though he was a genius. So there's a precedent.

To answer your objection, you are reading the bible based on your limited knowledge and understanding of the Hebrews. The Hebrews regarded the two large, hopping hind limbs of the locust and the other flying insects of the same type, which are the only types of insects mentioned here (we now translate "beetle" as "cricket" --KJV), as something different than the other four limbs because they were used primarily for vertical propulsion, whereas the other four limbs or legs were for scurrying/creeping around.

So, you are arguing that the Hebrews were right because they were wrong? A leg's a leg. You can subclassify it all you want, but the fact remains you are inaccurate when wording it as "they have four legs". They do not. They have 6.

2. First off, the Linnean classification of what a "bird" was did not exist at the time Leviticus and Deuteronomy were written. Second, the Hebrew word "owph", mistranslated birds, simply means "owner of a wing", which comes from a root word which means to cover or to fly.

Again, I am curious why God, who supposedly knows all, can't tell Hebrews about the differences between a bat and a bird. Who cares if they are culturally unscientific? God can still tell them, right? That's what being the Great Teacher is, after all, FRICKING EDUCATING.

4. The "BibleGod" is more like the business owner who supplies His employees only the knowledge they need for the time being to be successful.

And He underestimates that need quite a bit. He's like working in a nursing home. "Here are the keys to your med cart. Don't kill anyone." I was educated and yet had not nearly enough of the info I needed.

They follow His "work" rules, no matter how chaotic the work environment may seem. These employees have the faith and confidence in their boss , who knows them and the world better than they know themselves and the world, is still in control. And if their confidence in Him perseveres, the boss will pay them handsomely when the job is complete.

I've worked too long with aloof or outright negligent bosses to believe this. If I'm not willing, as a nurse, to berate a doctor for ignorant decisions, I could lose MY license. My profession REQUIRES I double-check the usefulness of the rules I'm given ("evidence-based practice").

As for being a robot,
if we knew everything about everything then we would all live perfect lives.
A perfect life would have no choices, because we would always make perfect decisions.

This doesn't follow. Knowing all information does not necessarily mean you PROCESS that information accurately and logically.

 

[Skwim]

When we attempt to apply human understanding and reasoning to God's actions, we are not taking into consideration what the Lord told us in Isaiah 55:8-11.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Interesting that Isaiah 55:11 says

In the same way, my words leave my mouth,
and they don’t come back without results.
My words make the things happen that I want to happen.
They succeed in doing what I send them to do.​

In as much as his words have fomented one heck of a lot of misery----consider all the suffering and sorrow that's resulted from the Christian religion's use of the bible to justify its wretched actions such as the Medieval inquisition and Puritan witch hunts---this is a pretty damning boast.

We can't expect God to act within the confines of our human reasoning and understanding.

Why not? Christians continually use their reasoning and understanding to interpret god's words and actions. Just listen to almost any Sunday sermon.

The Bible explicitly tells us that God loves and cares about YOU. Matter of fact, He loved YOU so much, He sent His only Son to die in YOUR place.

Tell that to all of those who have needlessly died because of his "love," such as the innocent infants, children, and women he has slaughtered, related in Old Testament Bible stories.


.

 

[katiemygirl]

Interesting that Isaiah 55:11 says

In the same way, my words leave my mouth,
and they don’t come back without results.
My words make the things happen that I want to happen.
They succeed in doing what I send them to do.​

In as much as his words have fomented one heck of a lot of misery----consider all the suffering and sorrow that's resulted from the Christian religion's use of the bible to justify its wretched actions such as the Medieval inquisition and, Puritan witch hunts---this is a pretty damning boast.



Why not? Christians continually use their reasoning and understanding to interpret god's words and actions. Just listen to almost any Sunday sermon.



Tell that to all of those who have needlessly died because of his "love," such as the innocent infants, children, and women he has slaughtered, as related in Old Testament Bible stories.


.

If God can't convince thru His Word, who am I to be able to.

 

[Skwim]

If God can't convince thru His Word, who am I to be able to.

In as much as he has failed to convince so many people of his "word," I would assume he does expect you to convince yourself. And, this is exactly what a whole lot of Christians do. This is the basic foundation of Christian apologetics; take the troublesome "words" of god and try to make sense of them so as to convince oneself and others of their truth.


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