I can't decide whether God exists!

[idea]

So I've been on this earth for 23 years. For the first 17 or so, I "kinda" believed in God, just went along with what my family said. Went to church, but more to see friends than for any other reason. Since 18, I have been unsure whether God exists. I've never "experienced" God, and I've never heard God speaking to me at any point in my life. But I've lived a fairly sinful life up to this point, even though I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, steal, and I've never murdered or physically harmed someone. By sinful, I mean somewhat selfish.

Anyway, what it would take for me to 100% believe in God is seeing a miracle, such as the ones Jesus did, or God did such as raining frogs in Egypt. Or hearing a voice speaking to me that I'm sure isn't myself.

Reasons I don't believe in God 100% is it just seems perfectly logical and possible that all life on Earth evolved from very simple, microscopic lifeforms. I'm a biology major, and I believe 100% in evolution (in fact, I've seen it happen in yeast with my own eyes). Also, I've seen a UFO once, and if they are indeed piloted by extraterrestrials, I think that disproves God because he created humans to have dominion over all things. That wouldn't make sense if there were life forms more intelligent than humans. Also, the question of why did God create such a universe so vast if we humans probably won't even be able to see it?

Reasons I believe there's some chance god exists is near death experiences. I'm reading Descent into Death by Howard Storm, and I'm getting chills reading it because what it describes is almost exactly what my church tells me spirit world is like.

THoughts?

there is a difference between "believing / having faith" in something vs. "knowing" something... do you seek faith? or knowledge?

spiritual experiences make for an interesting delema - on one hand, it is good to have faith - have trust - on the other hand, it is good to know... you are not supposed to "seek for signs" but you are supposed to "ask and receive" ... I think it comes down to the spirit of the thing - being rebellious sort of "prove yourself to me" or a humble/meek - "I want to learn from / follow you" sort of a thing...

evolution has nothing to do with it - it almost (just almost) sounds like you are LDS - no drinking/smoking etc. etc. ) and you do know that the church has no official stance on evolution right? Mormons define "create" very differently than most mainstream church groups - they define create as "transform" - read through the King Follett sermon about the immortal intelligences - create - it's about spiritual transformations, create a clean heart etc. etc. religious is about refining your character, not about where your body came from.

1. I want to believe because if I don't, and I don't live a good live, I will have to spend a long time in hell. From what I've learned from my church, the harsh reality is that I will go to hell if I die right now. I've never killed anyone, only stolen something (that costed $15) once, I've never physically hurt someone. But if there is a God, when I am judged right after I die he will say "I don't know you". And that's hell according to my church.

3. Because the only religion I've been exposed to all my life is Christianity, and it makes the most sense to me and is the most popular religion.

never mind, you are probably not Mormon ... hopefully if you choose to follow Christianity it will not be out of fear, but out of recognition that being good (don't steal, don't lie, etc. etc.) brings joy... sort of like saying "If I don't go to school I won't get a job and I'll starve to death" .... vs. saying... "I want to go to school because I enjoy learning things and want the sense of accomplishments which comes from being a contributing member of society" ... seems like actions driven by fear miss the whole joy/point of it all.

 

[james2ko]

So I've been on this earth for 23 years. For the first 17 or so, I "kinda" believed in God, just went along with what my family said. Went to church, but more to see friends than for any other reason. Since 18, I have been unsure whether God exists. I've never "experienced" God, and I've never heard God speaking to me at any point in my life. But I've lived a fairly sinful life up to this point, even though I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, steal, and I've never murdered or physically harmed someone. By sinful, I mean somewhat selfish.

Anyway, what it would take for me to 100% believe in God is seeing a miracle, such as the ones Jesus did, or God did such as raining frogs in Egypt. Or hearing a voice speaking to me that I'm sure isn't myself.

Reasons I don't believe in God 100% is it just seems perfectly logical and possible that all life on Earth evolved from very simple, microscopic lifeforms. I'm a biology major, and I believe 100% in evolution (in fact, I've seen it happen in yeast with my own eyes). Also, I've seen a UFO once, and if they are indeed piloted by extraterrestrials, I think that disproves God because he created humans to have dominion over all things. That wouldn't make sense if there were life forms more intelligent than humans. Also, the question of why did God create such a universe so vast if we humans probably won't even be able to see it?

Reasons I believe there's some chance god exists is near death experiences. I'm reading Descent into Death by Howard Storm, and I'm getting chills reading it because what it describes is almost exactly what my church tells me spirit world is like.

THoughts?

You may be better off in your current state. Knowing the "truth" (which is probably not what you think) is much more dangerous than being ignorant of it.

 

[839311]

Anyway, what it would take for me to 100% believe in God is seeing a miracle, such as the ones Jesus did, or God did such as raining frogs in Egypt. Or hearing a voice speaking to me that I'm sure isn't myself.

Thats all it would take for you to believe in God? I think God would be disappointed in you.

For me, even if I saw someones hand grow back, or frogs falling from the sky, or hearing a voice speaking to me... it wouldn't even be close to getting me to accept God as being a part of reality.

First of all, say you did see someones hand grow back. It could be that there are many gods, and one of them did it. Or, it could be that aliens did it using advanced technology. Or, it could be that we are in a virtual reality that was created for us, perhaps by humans and it is really the year 2648 where people can live in virtual worlds. Same goes for frogs. As for hearing voices, how could you be sure your mind isnt just playing tricks with you? And if it is really someone else speaking to you, all the other possibilities Ive mentioned still apply.

It would take a lot more than that to convince me that it is God who is responsible for it, let alone any specific deities that are currently popular. Even if an 'angel' appeared to me and told me that God is real, I would still be unconvinced. It might just be an alien having some fun with humans as far as I would know.

Oh, and forget about the idea of eternal torment. This is nonsense, a hideous lie created by twisted humans. And if it was true that God would torment people for all eternity, then to hell with him. lol, just kidding! But seriously, If I could do something about that, I would simply strip him of his power and put God into rehab. If that wouldn't be possible, I would kill him to end his cruel reign and liberate all the beings that are being tormented.

 

[Kathryn]

Wow, I can't believe I missed this nugget:

Also, I've seen a UFO once, and if they are indeed piloted by extraterrestrials, I think that disproves God because he created humans to have dominion over all things.

If you are going by what the bible says on this matter, God gave man dominion over this EARTH - not the entire universe.

Just sayin'.

 

[waitasec]

You may be better off in your current state. Knowing the "truth" (which is probably not what you think) is much more dangerous than being ignorant of it.

ah...what?
being in a perpetual state of uncertainty is better than trying to figure it out for yourself...?
nice philosophy you got there chief...
:clap

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Hi there! Your search of God depends on where are you looking for him? You can see his qualities in the creation and in the Holy Scriptures.

 

[waitasec]

Hi there! Your search of God depends on where are you looking for him? You can see his qualities in the creation and in the Holy Scriptures.

the problem with this statement is that nature and scripture contradict each other...
what to do what to do...oh yeah i'll just set aside my sense of critical thinking and abracadabra...it's magic...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So I've been on this earth for 23 years. For the first 17 or so, I "kinda" believed in God, just went along with what my family said. Went to church, but more to see friends than for any other reason. Since 18, I have been unsure whether God exists. I've never "experienced" God, and I've never heard God speaking to me at any point in my life. But I've lived a fairly sinful life up to this point, even though I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, steal, and I've never murdered or physically harmed someone. By sinful, I mean somewhat selfish.

Anyway, what it would take for me to 100% believe in God is seeing a miracle, such as the ones Jesus did, or God did such as raining frogs in Egypt. Or hearing a voice speaking to me that I'm sure isn't myself.

Reasons I don't believe in God 100% is it just seems perfectly logical and possible that all life on Earth evolved from very simple, microscopic lifeforms. I'm a biology major, and I believe 100% in evolution (in fact, I've seen it happen in yeast with my own eyes). Also, I've seen a UFO once, and if they are indeed piloted by extraterrestrials, I think that disproves God because he created humans to have dominion over all things. That wouldn't make sense if there were life forms more intelligent than humans. Also, the question of why did God create such a universe so vast if we humans probably won't even be able to see it?

Reasons I believe there's some chance god exists is near death experiences. I'm reading Descent into Death by Howard Storm, and I'm getting chills reading it because what it describes is almost exactly what my church tells me spirit world is like.

THoughts?

Don't sweat over it too much. At the end of the day, it's not a decision you can really make. People believe or not based on what seems true to them. What seems true to different people depends on their primary decision-making process and what type of criteria they find relevant.

I think once you start down the path of rational skepticism, it's very difficult to not apply rational processes in all your observations and analyses. In my experience, once a person's perception undergoes the paradigm shift to primarily viewing things rationally, beliefs such as god, astrology, ghosts, etc. will all ultimately not be able to be accepted as true, and therefore, not believed. Assuming, of course, that they have the education and ability to adequately and consistently apply rational standards.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

being in a perpetual state of uncertainty is better than trying to figure it out for yourself...?

A perpetual state of uncertainty means we can spend our lives still learning.

Plus, we're less inclined to gut our neighbor for wearing his beard in a different style than our own.

But I've got no idea if Jame2KO meant anything near to that with his assertion. Sometimes I think the earth is supported on the backs of giant words, which are standing on the backs of other giant words... and it's just words all the way down.

 

[waitasec]

A perpetual state of uncertainty means we can spend our lives still learning.

but in order to learn one has to know where the limits of their understanding are

Sometimes I think the earth is supported on the backs of giant words, which are standing on the backs of other giant words... and it's just words all the way down.

the earth is supported by absolute empirical truth seekers...

 

[james2ko]

ah...what? being in a perpetual state of uncertainty

How in the world did you concoct the implication the state of uncertainty would be perpetual, from my statement?

is better than trying to figure it out for yourself...?

Makes one wonder why you care to respond to a statement that wasn't addressed to you nor does it even apply. I thought you had God all figured out or have the seeds of doubt been planted?

nice philosophy you got there chief...

Why thank you...my little Pocahontas

 

[waitasec]

How in the world did you concoct the implication the state of uncertainty would be perpetual, from my statement?

well, read the title of this thread, perhaps that'll give you a clue

of which you replied with:

You may be better off in your current state.

Makes one wonder why you care to respond to a statement that wasn't addressed to you nor does it even apply. I thought you had God all figured out or have the seeds of doubt been planted?

last i check this is an open forum...
got a problem with that? sure seems like you take offense to opposing views... one wonders why...

 

[Benhamine]

So I've been on this earth for 23 years. For the first 17 or so, I "kinda" believed in God, just went along with what my family said. Went to church, but more to see friends than for any other reason. Since 18, I have been unsure whether God exists. I've never "experienced" God, and I've never heard God speaking to me at any point in my life. But I've lived a fairly sinful life up to this point, even though I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, steal, and I've never murdered or physically harmed someone. By sinful, I mean somewhat selfish.

Anyway, what it would take for me to 100% believe in God is seeing a miracle, such as the ones Jesus did, or God did such as raining frogs in Egypt. Or hearing a voice speaking to me that I'm sure isn't myself.

Reasons I don't believe in God 100% is it just seems perfectly logical and possible that all life on Earth evolved from very simple, microscopic lifeforms. I'm a biology major, and I believe 100% in evolution (in fact, I've seen it happen in yeast with my own eyes). Also, I've seen a UFO once, and if they are indeed piloted by extraterrestrials, I think that disproves God because he created humans to have dominion over all things. That wouldn't make sense if there were life forms more intelligent than humans. Also, the question of why did God create such a universe so vast if we humans probably won't even be able to see it?

Reasons I believe there's some chance god exists is near death experiences. I'm reading Descent into Death by Howard Storm, and I'm getting chills reading it because what it describes is almost exactly what my church tells me spirit world is like.

THoughts?

I'm 23 myself and grew up in a Christian family. I have over the past few years gone through immense spiritual transformation. The best advice I can give you is to do research. Read, read, read. Go to people from various religions and ask questions (this is a good site for this but I also recommend religious figures and intelectuals such as priests, rabbis, monks, professors, etc.) Give a few religions a fair chance. The most important thing I can suggest is to not go into anything with any preconceived notions. It sounds like you are asking to prove Christianity due to a fear of eternal damnation. This is probably not the best way to go about it and most likely you won't find the answers you're looking for. Through my own journey I've incorporated many aspects from many religions and hardly call it complete. Just remember that the journey is as fun as the answer! Especially when you take into account the fact that you won't know the answer until the journey is over.

-Benhamine

Have fun and GOOD LUCK!

 

[Blackdog22]

I have the answer. Go to a hospital and watch a 6 year old with uncurable cancer. Pray with him everyday for the remainder of his life, believe really hard that Jesus is gonna come down and cure his disease. Watch as his soul is taken from him to the point that he actually wants to die. Then you can conclude whether you think God exists or not.

At the very least you could take away that it is very unlikely that God turned off your cable for a second, while letting millions die in painful agony before they are thrown into hell.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

If you really want to know if God exists my first reccomendation is to pray and sincerely and respectfully talk to God as a man speaketh unto his friend. I have had enough experiences in my life through praying and receiving answers, even though I am a far from perfect man, that God does for a fact exist. I never heard a voice reply to me out loud, but I can say that I could feel God's presence before me, and I could feel my mind become enlightened to the point that I could find the answers I was looking for. For example there was one day I had lost my glasses for a few weeks and had looked all over for them. One day I decided to get down on my knees and ask God if he could help me find my glasses. It seemed in the middle of my prayer the thought came to my mind to check my coat pocket over in the closet and I could visualize it in my mind. I then got up and sure enough there they were. I know that it was not a coincidence that after looking all over for weeks after praying that in the middle of my prayer the location of my glasses just happened to pop into my mind. I have had a great many experiences where I have received answers to prayers and each one has turned my belief in God into a solid knowledge that God does in fact exist and that he does for a fact hear and answer prayers.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work, and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings.

 

[james2ko]

well, read the title of this thread, perhaps that'll give you a clue*

Well if you read my statement correctly nowhere does it state or imply his current state of uncertainty would remain perpetual. That was your own "twist" on things which, I must admit, is one of your talents.

sure seems like you take offense to opposing views..... one wonders why.

For the same reason you do-- my "Twisted Sista"

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2513242-post79.html

last i check this is an open forum...got a problem with that?

If this post and our past discussions are any indication, you know I have no problem toying and refuting a skeptic's opposing views.

 

[waitasec]

Well if you read my statement correctly nowhere does it state or imply his current state of uncertainty would remain perpetual. That was your own "twist" on things which, I must admit, is one of your talents.

you certainly didn't encourage the idea of exploring, now did you?
no it's better to be in the position of uncertainty...

If this post and our past discussions are any indication, you know I have no problem toying and refuting a skeptic's opposing views.

sure you do...once you're cornered you drop the ball.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I raise my eye brow at the both of you and don't understand what you guys are talking about.

 

[james2ko]

you certainly didn't encourage the idea of exploring,

Thanks for indirectly admitting to twisting my statement.

no it's better to be in the position of uncertainty...

It most certainly is for some:

2 Pet 2:20-21 And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before. It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life. NLT​

The fact yodachoda starts out questioning the existence of God only increases his/her odds of fulfilling the implications of the passage.

sure you do...once you're cornered you drop the ball.

I'm afraid you edited your comment a wee bit too late. It was changed from, and I'm paraphrasing-- once you're cornered, you start insulting people's intelligence--to the comment above, smart move because you know deep down it isn't true. Now to the current comment. I may have dropped the ball in certain conversations, who hasn't? But never because I was cornered.