I don't believe America is a majority Christian nation

[Glaurung]

All I can say is the bible is not science, nor is it something that needs qualified officials to make arguments against.

Oh for goodness' sake, you're more intelligent than this.

I acknowledge my views are more than likely incorrect on most of what you mention, but I have no intention of changing them

Ok, but then don't give me tripe about how how rational you think you are. You don't care about the truth, you only care about perpetuating your own ideological bigotries. You're no different than a Christian fundamentalist. You're just on the flip side of the coin.

Good day, and good luck on your exam.

 

[metis]

Your [Deathbydefault] position was. It's a naive and horribly simplistic one...

Before you go out spewing ill-informed rhetoric, please make an effort (even if only in passing) to understand the subject matter...

...In short, you don't know what you're talking about...

The only thing you know is one very narrow idea of Christianity which you take for granted (as you just stated) on the mere basis that your parents believe such...

That's fine, but don't whine when your wilfully uninformed views are not taken seriously for it.

No, but you do need to take off your blatant ideological blindfolds and actually listen to what people are telling you. If you want to discuss what makes a real Christian you ought to have some actual knowledge instead of spouting simplistic nonsense.

Why are you being so nasty and condescending? I read Deathbydefault's posts, and I don't agree with a lot of it but my point here is simply that you're coming off being extremely arrogant and nasty.

Sacred tradition refers to the teachings passed down through the Church originating from the Apostles. The canon of the Bible was selected on each book's alignment with that tradition, it predates the canon.

But "church tradition" was not a static entity, nor was it monolithic, and these traditions were formed over decades. The canon didn't come floating down into the hands of the apostles, and neither did "church tradition". Even the scriptures point to disagreements and some divisions right from the get-go.

 

[leibowde84]

It's really simple. You either agree with Jesus' teachings or you don't

Jesus didn't teach about homosexuality being wrong, much less same-sex marriage.

 

[leibowde84]

Why are you being so nasty and condescending? I read Deathbydefault's posts, and I don't agree with a lot of it but my point here is simply that you're coming off being extremely arrogant and nasty.



But "church tradition" was not a static entity, nor was it monolithic, and these traditions were formed over decades. The canon didn't come floating down into the hands of the apostles, and neither did "church tradition". Even the scriptures point to disagreements and some divisions right from the get-go.

Well-put.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

We have to be able to separate cultural Christians from those that actually believe in the teachings of Jesus. We can't do that by asking if people are Christian. The term "Christian" doesn't mean anything anymore. We must look to what people actually believe about the teachings of Jesus in order to discern who truly believes in him. If the polls below on divorce, sex out of marriage, and homosexuality are correct, it's clear that the majority of Americans do not agree with the teachings of Jesus.

In terms of homosexuality, where does Jesus condemn it?

I wouldn't say so far as to say that these commandments are more or less important than not lying, stealing, and murdering, but they are the big sticking points that many Americans have with Christianity and breaking them is more than enough to fracture one's relationship with Jesus

Jesus hung out with 12 men, refused to get laid by a woman (or, at least, Christianity refused to let Jesus get laid by a woman), the "beloved disciple" that cuddles with Jesus at the Last Supper is supposedly JOHN, Jesus said "eunuchs" could be born or made that way and we should accept them ... help us out here.

And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

Why should "sexual immorality" be about homosexuality and not, say, rape?

Discernment is tricky and one that is bound in cause friction in a culture which values universalism. Jesus taught that we will know false teachers and believers by their fruits. Notice he tells us to "watch out", not to just take everyone's word for it

Yes, when the self-righteous, who Jesus griped about the most, use their positions of self-made piety to judge others, Jesus rather looks down on it and tells us to avoid them as false teachers. Jesus hung out with sinners. It was the false teachers who hypocritically griped about other sinners.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Oh for goodness' sake, you're more intelligent than this.

Saying what I've said doesn't make me any less intelligent.

Ok, but then don't give me tripe about how how rational you think you are. You don't care about the truth, you only care about perpetuating your own ideological bigotries. You're no different than a Christian fundamentalist. You're just on the flip side of the coin.

Good day, and good luck on your exam.

Thanks for the good luck, got a 100% I'm fairly certain.

I don't recall referring to my position on this as "rational".
I don't even recall trying to phrase my position as being rational, I simply stated my view point.
It is very much bigoted, and I again acknowledge that.

It's good that I'm on the flip side of the coin, at least to me anyways.
My parents are fundamentalists and I hate their guts.
Makes sense that I would strive to be the exact opposite of what they are.

You may also want to drop the accusatory tone, before I take one up myself.
I don't enforce my bigotries, or take a stance of conversion.
I can accept what the truth is, but you're right in saying that I don't care.

 

[viole]

They simply like some aspect of his teaching, usually the really easy stuff to put into action that doesn't intrude on how they want to actually live their lives.

Like you, I am afraid. You seem to be so concerned about sexual issues (homosexuality, pre-marital sex, etc. ) that you lose the big picture and the rest of his teachings; the difficult ones. And the big picture is to help people in need, and not judge what people do in their bedroom and with whom. But that is much easier, isn't it?

When was the last time you gave everything to the poor, as Jesus teaches? Why do you still own a computer/tablet/smart phone that allows you to post here? Do you know how much food you can buy for the poor if you sell it? That could feed a child for some days.

At face value, you are not a Christian, either.

Ciao

- viole

 

[outhouse]

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2001/...ns-Say-Premarital-Sex-Morally-Acceptable.aspx

http://www.christianpost.com/news/gallup-slight-majority-say-homosexuality-morally-acceptable-74989/

http://www.christianpost.com/news/s...ricans-find-divorce-morally-acceptable-32435/

These are not credible sources for any relevant discussion. They do amount to apologetic rhetoric.

 

[outhouse]

Jesus hung out with 12 men, refused to get laid by a woman

If I was going to reply on apologetic references, I would mention the naked man fleeing from him at arrest, in Mark.

But everything mentioned really has to do with the Hellenistic unknown authors more so then any Aramaic Galilean would teach.

 

[Desert Snake]

Like you, I am afraid. You seem to be so concerned about sexual issues (homosexuality, pre-marital sex, etc. ) that you lose the big picture and the rest of his teachings; the difficult ones. And the big picture is to help people in need, and not judge what people do in their bedroom and with whom. But that is much easier, isn't it?

When was the last time you gave everything to the poor, as Jesus teaches? Why do you still own a computer/tablet/smart phone that allows you to post here? Do you know how much food you can buy for the poor if you sell it? That could feed a child for some days.

At face value, you are not a Christian, either.

Ciao

- viole

Why is it always non-Xians who think they know the most about Jesus, and Xian ideas?

 

[outhouse]

Our definition of what it means to follow Jesus (be a Christian) should be Jesus' definition.

Why? we know very little about him or what he said or did.

What you think you know, every last word, originated from people far removed from his life, who never met him, or heard a word he said.

The not was not written by any eyewitness.

When the movement first started it was very diverse, what evolved into Christianity took hundreds of years, and even then there was still diversity in the different views.


So it was never correct for anyone to say exactly what Christianity is with credibility or certainty, except they should respect other methods of worshipping the father through the son.

As a strong atheist, I have more Christian values then any literalist who knows nothing of the REAL context of the NT

 

[viole]

Why is it always non-Xians who think they know the most about Jesus, and Xian ideas?

We can read.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Desert Snake]

We can read.

Ciao

- viole

Religious beliefs come from reading the texts? Or is that only ''Christianity'', the religious adherence that you don't even follow in the first place?

hmm

 

[viole]

Religious beliefs come from reading the texts? Or is that only ''Christianity'', the religious adherence that you don't even follow in the first place?

hmm

Are you objecting that Jesus did not say you should sell your possessions and give the money to the poor?

Are we reading the same book?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Desert Snake]

Are you objecting that Jesus did not say you should sell your possessions and give the money to the poor?

Are we reading the same book?

Ciao

- viole

Who me? What makes you think that Jesus was talking to me?

 

[viole]

Who me? What makes you think that Jesus was talking to me?

I am not saying He was talking with you. I asked a very simple question.

Are you objecting that Jesus did indeed say, in the Bible, that you should sell your possessions and give the money to the poor?
[yes/no/maybe]

Which one is it?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Desert Snake]

I am not saying He was talking with you. I asked a very simple question.

Are you objecting that Jesus did indeed say, in the Bible, that you should sell your possessions and give the money to the poor?
[yes/no/maybe]

Which one is it?

Ciao

- viole

Ah, the question is, in what context, isn't it.

 

[viole]

Ah, the question is, in what context, isn't it.

Feel free to choose the biblical context you want (as long as you show it to me).

Did, or did not, Jesus say that you should sell all your possession and give the money yo the poor?
[yes/no/maybe].

Ciao

- viole

 

[Desert Snake]

Feel free to choose the biblical context you want (as long as you show it to me).

Did, or did not, Jesus say that you should sell all your possession and give the money yo the poor?
[yes/no/maybe].

Ciao

- viole

Your the one presenting the idea; it's up to you, to present the context, and verse, etc/

 

[outhouse]

Are you objecting that Jesus did indeed say, in the Bible,

That's a tough one. I guess I do object.

No one that knew him or heard him wrote a word, about I'm.

Every person that did write decades after from a long distance away.


We really don't know, I wish we did.