"I don't consent to your prayers."

[Wildswanderer]

Of course, prayers to an infallibly omniscient god cannot work.
If god knows the future, then that future cannot change. If the future is fixed, prayers to change the outcome of any event cannot have any effect.

Ever think that God incorporated the prayers into his knowledge of the future?

 

[KWED]

Ever think that God incorporated the prayers into his knowledge of the future?

Doesn't make any practical difference. If he did, they still can't change the outcome, because that outcome assumes the prayers and is still fixed.
What's more, that removes free will because the person must make that prayer at that time.

 

[1213]

If you respect them, yes: you should stop.
... ...: other people's suffering would be your fault, just as much as someone who chose not to throw a life ring to a drowning man is at fault for the drowning.

Do I understand correctly, I should pray for people even if they don't want it?

 

[Messianic Israelite]

Knothead on TikTok

Found a video on tiktok where someone, in a comment, responded to some evangelical Christians that they don't consent to their prayers. The evangelical Christians then made a video specifically praying for that individual despite their wishes. The video linked above is another Christian minister condemning that action as selfish, displaying false piety and even taking the Lord's name in vain.

Personally I don't have a horse in this race, I don't care if people pray for me and view it at best as functionally equivalent of well wishing, at worse as harmful as praying to Bruce Almighty.

But what do you think? Would you as a non-christian ask Christians to not pray for you, especially the passive aggressive 'I'll pray you change your mind?' As Christians would you respect the wishes of someone who asked you to not pray for them? Also, if you have another theistic belief, do you pray for people?

ADigitalArtist. Good afternoon. Ironic, the preacher here says how dare you take G-d's name is vain but doesn't use the Name of the Most High, Yahweh, but uses the term 'G-d' when Yahweh never sanctioned this pagan term to use in place of His Name. That aside, my grandma is a Christian and I pray for her almost every day. I know she prays for me too. I don't have an issue with that, even though she is praying using the pagan names, I simply pray that she would come to a knowledge of the Truth. If someone wants to pray for an atheist, agnostic, theist, whoever, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with that. Yahshua told us to pray even for our enemies in the sermon on the mount. Did he say we should get there consent first? No. But we should pray in private, that our Father who sees in secret will recompense us. We don't need to let people know that we are praying for them.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I'm stating the obvious. Helping another person doesn't depend on them agreeing to your help.

What you did was use an analogy that doesn't work. Since we are not talking about people that have a parent-child relationship, using a parent child relationship for the analogy is entirely inappropriate.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do I understand correctly, I should pray for people even if they don't want it?

No, I'm saying that the fact you would ever spend time on RF tells us that you don't really believe that prayer has any effect, so why do it to people who don't even want it?

 

[Wildswanderer]

What you did was use an analogy that doesn't work. Since we are not talking about people that have a parent-child relationship, using a parent child relationship for the analogy is entirely inappropriate.

In your opinion maybe. The people that argue and get offended by this sort of thing seem pretty childish though.
" Mommy he prayed that God would help me, waaah, I'm offended!"

 

[Wildswanderer]

Doesn't make any practical difference. If he did, they still can't change the outcome, because that outcome assumes the prayers and is still fixed.
What's more, that removes free will because the person must make that prayer at that time.

No it doesn't... God knowing what we will do beforehand does not mean he causes it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I was talking about praying for people in private prayers not to their face when they have said they don't want it.

It's creepy.

If you do it in private and don't tell anyone, odds are that nobody will know, but it's still creepy.

Yes I can understand what you are saying but prayer is what God wants Christians to do.

Well, I'm glad you're here to tell us God's thoughts. Quite a feat.

Do you think that thinking well of a person without their knowing it is aggrandizement for the thinker?

I don't think that's what prayer is.

If that goes a step further when the thinker is a Christian and it goes to prayer, especially if that is what God wants us to do, I don't see a problem in any way, especially as a moral problem for the one who prays.

What do you think the function of prayer is?

Say your friend is sick and you pray that they'll get better soon. What do you think your prayer accomplishes?

Do you think that you're telling God something he doesn't already know? Do you think God will change his plan just because you ask him to?

Do you think prayer has an effect or not? There are weird implications either way.

 

[KWED]

No it doesn't... God knowing what we will do beforehand does not mean he causes it.

I didn't claim that he does.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But what do you think? Would you as a non-christian ask Christians to not pray for you, especially the passive aggressive 'I'll pray you change your mind?'

Only ignorant and charlatans will do it. It is arrogance to pray for an atheist, and an insult to my belief. My mind is not going to change by their stories which have no evidence.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

In your opinion maybe. The people that argue and get offended by this sort of thing seem pretty childish though.
" Mommy he prayed that God would help me, waaah, I'm offended!"

You should NOT force prayers on someone if they say they don't want it. It is a violation of their dignity as a human being.

 

[idea]

There was that footballer who suffered a cardiac arrest on the pitch. There was a cardiac specialist in the front rows who ran on and began emergency measures until the paramedics arrived. A defibrillator was used multiple times and he later had surgery to implant a micro-defibrillator. He spent a month in hospital receiving cutting edge medical treatment.
He later thanked god for the miracle of his survival.

Yes, and I suppose those poor unlucky souls, who did not get the medical attention they needed- who were not 'saved by prayer' were all undeserving sinners who just didn't have enough faith... #cursed / # blessed.

Everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

 

[idea]

In your opinion maybe. The people that argue and get offended by this sort of thing seem pretty childish though.
" Mommy he prayed that God would help me, waaah, I'm offended!"

It's a form of dishonesty, giving credit to someone who did no real work, and deserves no credit.

Let's say you stop someone from breaking into your neighbors home, call cops, cops arrest the prowler etc. Then neighbors tell you their God (whoever that might be) will always protect them because they are faithful to their religious group (whatever that might be). No thanks to you, no thanks to cops, they only thank their version of God.

Anything good - it was caused by god/prayer
Anything bad - must not have prayed/must not have had faith in Allah/Jesus/Satan/whoever they happen to have faith in.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It's a form of dishonesty, giving credit to someone who did no real work, and deserves no credit.

Why would you care about that? Are you trying to control other people's beliefs?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You should NOT force prayers on someone if they say they don't want it. It is a violation of their dignity as a human being.

Lol, so what I think in my mind somehow violates you? That's a whole new level of getting offended over stupid stuff.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I didn't claim that he does.

Then I don't see what your issue is.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Lol, so what I think in my mind somehow violates you? That's a whole new level of getting offended over stupid stuff.

Let's say a Wiccan offers to pray to the goddess for me. My answer would be "please do not do so." If they violate that request, they are offending my dignity as an individual.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Let's say a Wiccan offers to pray to the goddess for me. My answer would be "please do not do so." If they violate that request, they are offending my dignity as an individual.

How? Unless someone is praying for you to die why would you even care? And even then, I don't believe in their goddess anyway so they can pray what they want.

 

[dybmh]

Of course, prayers to an infallibly omniscient god cannot work.
If god knows the future, then that future cannot change. If the future is fixed, prayers to change the outcome of any event cannot have any effect.

What if the future is: if they pray then I will have mercy. The idea is God is at the ready waiting for our prayers. That's the future, but it's not fixed.