I don't have a problem with the bible, i have a problem with hell...

[confusedone]

The 1611 King James Bible:

We all know Jonah was swallowed by a whale.

2"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice." - King James Verson 1611

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:2[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]He said: "In my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me. From the depths of the grave I called for help, and you listened to my cry". - New international version
[/FONT]
We know what grave means. It a place where the dead are buried. It is translated from Hebrew (Sheoul)


So why did they change the word??? In the entire bible hell means hell, but we all know jonah wasn't in hell. Unless hell has different meanings..


If your christian (like me) and believe the bible is the word of God, then we believe in hell. Problem is.. "How many christian's would tell their friends, family, and everyone they encounter" Your going to hell! repent! Its just not common at all. And i do not want to tell anyone that.

Do you see the possibilibilty that men could have corrupted one of the most peaceful books on earth to there own liking? They could have said "Now men won't leave our religon because of a fear of hell"

I wish there was a verse that said "God himself will stop this book from being changed"

 

[EverChanging]

I wouldn't say the Bible is the most peaceful book in the world, especially the Hebrew scriptures. But I agree that there is a lot of questionable translation and interpretation when it comes to the whole eternal hell thing. Some Christians believe in the doctrine of universalism, that all souls will eventually be saved. The Universalists, who merged with the Unitarians to form Unitarian Universalism (my religious affiliation, which is creedless and not all members are classically Unitarian or Universalist anymore, although some are) believed in this doctrine. Some very early Christians believed in it, too, before councils came up with creeds to stamp this belief out.

There is a good argument to be made for the doctrine of Universalism from a biblical point of view. Just google "universalism."

 

[makarios]

Just the fact that it takes effort can turn some people off from reading the Bible. The part to which you are referring is poetry, it's a psalm of thanksgiving and therefore metaphore is used. The terms hell and grave each describe Jonah's near death experience. Psalm 86:13 gives a similar example of this use of the word grave. Good luck on your journey.

 

[McBell]

So why did they change the word??? In the entire bible hell means hell, but we all know jonah wasn't in hell. Unless hell has different meanings..

Seems it does have different meanings:

hell,
Deu_32:22, 2Sa_22:6, Job_11:8, Job_26:6, Psa_9:17, Psa_16:10, Psa_18:5, Psa_55:15, Psa_86:13, Psa_116:3, Psa_139:8, Pro_5:5, Pro_7:27, Pro_9:18, Pro_15:11, Pro_15:24, Pro_23:14, Pro_27:20, Isa_5:14, Isa_14:9, Isa_28:15 (2), Isa_28:18, Isa_57:9, Eze_31:16-17 (2), Eze_32:21, Eze_32:27, Jon_2:2 (2), Hab_2:5

grave
Gen_37:35, Gen_42:38, Gen_44:29, Gen_44:31, 1Ki_2:6 (2), 1Ki_2:9, Job_7:9, Job_21:13 (3), Job_24:19, Psa_6:5, Psa_30:3, Psa_31:17, Psa_49:14-15 (3), Psa_88:3, Psa_89:48, Pro_1:12, Pro_30:16, Ecc_9:10, Son_8:6, Isa_14:11, Isa_38:10, Isa_38:18, Eze_31:15, Hos_13:14 (2)

pit
Num_16:30, Num_16:33, Job_17:16

grave’s
Psa_141:7
​

If your christian (like me) and believe the bible is the word of God, then we believe in hell. Problem is.. "How many christian's would tell their friends, family, and everyone they encounter" Your going to hell! repent! Its just not common at all. And i do not want to tell anyone that.

Seems to me that there are more than you think there are...

Do you see the possibilibilty that men could have corrupted one of the most peaceful books on earth to there own liking? They could have said "Now men won't leave our religon because of a fear of hell"

You think that the Bible is one of the most PEACEFUL books on Earth?


That aside...
It could also be that it is written exactly as God wants to be written.

I wish there was a verse that said "God himself will stop this book from being changed"

according to many people there is:

Rev 22:18-19

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
​

 

[logician]

Hell was simply a 'stick' invention of the church to scare believers into staying in the church, sort of like the GOP is doing now with healthcare.

 

[jennadp1216]

If your christian (like me) and believe the bible is the word of God, then we believe in hell. Problem is.. "How many christian's would tell their friends, family, and everyone they encounter" Your going to hell! repent! Its just not common at all. And i do not want to tell anyone that.

A LOT. I have a friend right now, who is all of a sudden into the bible and becoming an extreme christian, she told ME more or less that i was going to parish if i didnt repent. I cant stop you from telling others this, but I definately wouldn't suggest it. Its not your role. :no:

 

[Humanistheart]

The 1611 King James Bible:

We all know Jonah was swallowed by a whale.

2"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice." - King James Verson 1611

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:2[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]He said: "In my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me. From the depths of the grave I called for help, and you listened to my cry". - New international version[/FONT]

We know what grave means. It a place where the dead are buried. It is translated from Hebrew (Sheoul)


So why did they change the word??? In the entire bible hell means hell, but we all know jonah wasn't in hell. Unless hell has different meanings..


If your christian (like me) and believe the bible is the word of God, then we believe in hell. Problem is.. "How many christian's would tell their friends, family, and everyone they encounter" Your going to hell! repent! Its just not common at all. And i do not want to tell anyone that.

Do you see the possibilibilty that men could have corrupted one of the most peaceful books on earth to there own liking? They could have said "Now men won't leave our religon because of a fear of hell"

I wish there was a verse that said "God himself will stop this book from being changed"

Hell's just evolved through the centuries. It wasn't a part of original doctrine from what I understand. You'd think more christians would bother to look into the origins of their own religion but they prefer to be blind and ignorant.

 

[DadBurnett]

Hell's just evolved through the centuries. It wasn't a part of original doctrine from what I understand. You'd think more christians would bother to look into the origins of their own religion but they prefer to be blind and ignorant.

I'm not sure that hell's evolved ... but i agree that our understanding (misunderstanding?) of it has.
On of the channlages of a discussion like this is basing it on something like the King James version of the Bible which was not faithful to the words of earlier translations.
One small example, a previous post cited Deut 32:22 as a reference to hell. Yes and no; the Jewish Study Bible, the word is Sheol and the notes state that Sheol is the underworld, the abode of the dead, not a place of damnation like the later idea of hell. The KJV is not always faithful to the "original" meanings ....

 

[Mister Emu]

You also have the modern(actually I'm not sure how far it goes back) misunderstanding of the word hell... the lake of fire is what most people think of when they say hell, but those two are not equated in the Bible, as far as I remember...

 

[McBell]

You also have the modern(actually I'm not sure how far it goes back) misunderstanding of the word hell... the lake of fire is what most people think of when they say hell, but those two are not equated in the Bible, as far as I remember...

I concur.
There are so many non-Biblical things that so many Christians swear by it is no longer comical to watch Christians swear by them.

 

[hindupridemn]

Most religions don't believe in Hell. I think Hell is a blasphemy. Oh and King James put things in the Bible that weren't in there before so he could divorce his wife.

 

[McBell]

Most religions don't believe in Hell. I think Hell is a blasphemy. Oh and King James put things in the Bible that weren't in there before so he could divorce his wife.

King James didn't "add" anything to "his" version.
All he did was "authorize" it to be translated.

 

[shammy]

The 1611 King James Bible:

We all know Jonah was swallowed by a whale.

2"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice." - King James Verson 1611

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2:2[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]He said: "In my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me. From the depths of the grave I called for help, and you listened to my cry". - New international version[/FONT]

We know what grave means. It a place where the dead are buried. It is translated from Hebrew (Sheoul)


So why did they change the word??? In the entire bible hell means hell, but we all know jonah wasn't in hell. Unless hell has different meanings..


If your christian (like me) and believe the bible is the word of God, then we believe in hell. Problem is.. "How many christian's would tell their friends, family, and everyone they encounter" Your going to hell! repent! Its just not common at all. And i do not want to tell anyone that.

Do you see the possibilibilty that men could have corrupted one of the most peaceful books on earth to there own liking? They could have said "Now men won't leave our religon because of a fear of hell"

I wish there was a verse that said "God himself will stop this book from being c
hanged"

I always wonder why there r too much 'versions' of bible!!!!If the bible is the word of god...why there is the need fr different version? Frm the very title ..like 'gospel of john, gospel of mathew'' etc..indicate tht those r written by them. and they difer in descriptions also. why?????i think tht it is a 'mixture' of God's words as well as words of prophets , jesus and his disciples. we can realise which r the true words of God..while going thru it.The divine rules mentioned in old testament r cancelld in new testament. whn we go thru the history of bible compilation by niceae council...we see tht some rules hv been changed and allowed. like circumcision..which ws mandatory in old testament. thn about liqour, eating pork....

did u ever read the 'gospel of barnabas'? it is different frm all the other gospels. we can get it frm net. it ws actually banned by the pope. but some hw it ws recovered and translated to english. i hv read it. u can go thru it...and feel the difference

 

[Mellonhead]

The very idea and time period that hell was created point to coercion. It's childish.

 

[shammy]

Most religions don't believe in Hell. I think Hell is a blasphemy. Oh and King James put things in the Bible that weren't in there before so he could divorce his wife.

hindu vedas mention about hell and paradise. almost all religions hs the concept of both. the good people should get the reward...is n't it? likewise the evil people..who hv no chance to become good. God almighty gives ample time to all . he gives the freedom of choice also. he ois not to b blamed fr one's bad luck. he is just, merciful...

 

[Mellonhead]

hindu vedas mention about hell and paradise. almost all religions hs the concept of both. the good people should get the reward...is n't it? likewise the evil people..who hv no chance to become good. God almighty gives ample time to all . he gives the freedom of choice also. he ois not to b blamed fr one's bad luck. he is just, merciful...

Merciful? Would you torture a child of your own because he does not like you, for one whole day?

God does this for all eternity according to you. God is not a being of mercy.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

To the OP:
Hell means grave. The wages of sin is death, so when we die, wherever our resting place is, a grave, a belly, or whatever, it is hell.
So if I was in a belly, I might say I am in hell. Understand?

 

[Mellonhead]

To the OP:
Hell means grave. The wages of sin is death, so when we die, wherever our resting place is, a grave, a belly, or whatever, it is hell.
So if I was in a belly, I might say I am in hell. Understand?

So hell is death?

Why would you be in a belly anyway? Do you plan on getting eaten by cannibals? xD

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So hell is death?

Why would you be in a belly anyway? Do you plan on getting eaten by cannibals? xD

Yes hell literally means the grave. It was not really until the story of Dante's Inferno did the pitchfork and typical hell story develop.
The belly reference was in the Opening Thread, about Jonah...

 

[Mellonhead]

Yes hell literally means the grave. It was not really until the story of Dante's Inferno did the pitchfork and typical hell story develop.
The belly reference was in the Opening Thread, about Jonah...

Aw right, many people don't realize that this stuff is recycled. Stories of hell pre-date Dante's inferno, but that popularized it.