I don't think we should hide the woman.

[dybmh]

So I guess I'm in the minority who thinks the whole burkah thing adds to a woman's mystery and allure.

When I see someone in a bikini, it's like... no mystery there.

 

[anna.]

I fully agree.

However, I believe that if a woman chooses to wear something, like a burka or hijab, we should also respect that. That is her business, and no one elses.

I agree with you. I've read commentary by Muslim women who want to wear the hijab or burka. I don't know all their reasons why but I've read some of them, and it's their culture and I respect their choice, when it is indeed their choice.

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive as a comparison, but I found many times over the past year that I enjoyed my privacy and anonymity when I had my sunglasses and mask on while in public. And it occurred to me that I was enjoying a similar thing that some of the Muslim women had expressed, a kind of freedom in being unseen. I had this sort of barrier between me and everyone else, and I liked it.

 

[Clara Tea]

Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place for saying this

Some Middle Eastern women expressed the idea that they don't mind the law requiring them to wear burkas because they are not judged by their beauty (or lack) but judged by their personality and intelligence.

They would feel naked without it.

American forces often forced women not to wear burkas (might as well make them go topless), in order to Americanize them. That is, if they dress like us, they might be peaceful like us. Peaceful? War, torture camps? The Christian way?

"The veil isn't in the clothes, it is in the mind." So are bras and panties. Should everyone walk around naked?

Ferengi (Star Trek) require their women to be naked and not get involved in business (not very profitable). If all were naked, no one would wonder what is underneath the clothing. Some societies have not balked at nudity. There are nude beaches where people don't get shocked at nudity.

By the way, I don't like the way Gene Roddenberry made Ferengi stereotypical space Jews (greedy, grasping, short, weak, and ugly). If you were to ask a Star Trek fan what a space Jew is, he'd instantly reply "Ferengi." They even had the parts played by Jews (Armin Shimmerman (Quark), Max Grodenchik (Rom), Wallace Shawn (Grand Negis Zek, identifies as atheist, but supported Palestinians, and a member and on the advisory board of Jewish Voice for Peace), and some parts of Quark's mother were played by Cecily April Adams (daughter of Get Smart actor, Don Adams, who was the son of a Jew and Catholic, but raised Catholic unlike his brother who was raised Jewish).

Apparently Roddenberry needed a vehicle for his antisemitism, and Star Trek was it. Other cultures and races are similarly abused (Black plays Worf, the Klingon, and engineers are always from Scotland).

 

[Clara Tea]

I agree with you. I've read commentary by Muslim women who want to wear the hijab or burka. I don't know all their reasons why but I've read some of them, and it's their culture and I respect their choice, when it is indeed their choice.

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive as a comparison, but I found many times over the past year that I enjoyed my privacy and anonymity when I had my sunglasses and mask on while in public. And it occurred to me that I was enjoying a similar thing that some of the Muslim women had expressed, a kind of freedom in being unseen. I had this sort of barrier between me and everyone else, and I liked it.

Helps in a poker game, but the mask puffs faster when excited, and eyeglasses fog up. So the key is to tell everyone that you can tell that they have good hands because they breathe differently, then fold against the ones turning blue because they are holding their breath.

 

[stevecanuck]

Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place for saying this

As Robin Williams said, "God gave men a brain and a penis, but only enough blood to operate one at a time".

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree, it's mens lust that is the problem.

Lust isn't the problem. (Even women have it.)
It's religion imposing restrictions based upon a dysfunctional morality.
(I'm being diplomatic with "dysfunctional".)
Woe unto those who cannot appreciate lust.

 

[Psalm23]

Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place for saying this

Yes definitely. I grew up with some purity culture teaching in the church. Too much responsibility is put on the girls and not enough on the guys. Honestly I had felt self conscious with certain shirts that were modest. Now I feel more free.

 

[Revoltingest]

....and engineers are always from Scotland).

You aren't very STTNG literate.

 

[JustGeorge]

I agree with you. I've read commentary by Muslim women who want to wear the hijab or burka. I don't know all their reasons why but I've read some of them, and it's their culture and I respect their choice, when it is indeed their choice.

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive as a comparison, but I found many times over the past year that I enjoyed my privacy and anonymity when I had my sunglasses and mask on while in public. And it occurred to me that I was enjoying a similar thing that some of the Muslim women had expressed, a kind of freedom in being unseen. I had this sort of barrier between me and everyone else, and I liked it.

I think I know what you mean. Sometimes I wrap my dupatta around my head/neck for no reason other than I want to. It feels good, and comfortable in a quiet sort of way.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I fully agree.

However, I believe that if a woman chooses to wear something, like a burka or hijab, we should also respect that. That is her business, and no one elses.

I strongly doubt any woman would naturally of her own desires choose to wear a burka. Remove the social pressures and I'm confident they would quickly die out and be relegated to the annals of history a century later.

 

[JustGeorge]

I strongly doubt any woman would naturally of her own desires to choose to wear a burka. Remove the social pressures and I'm confident they would quickly die out and be relegated to the annals of history a century later.

I would like to wear a burqa sometimes, but feel that to do so would be culturally appropriating.

I wouldn't have to brush my hair or do my make up, and I could wear my fuzzy Spongebob pajamas underneath and no one would know. The wind wouldn't blow in my face. People wouldn't oogle my chest or judge excess weight. They also look real warm and cozy for those cold Midwestern winters.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I would like to wear a burqa sometimes, but feel that to do so would be culturally appropriating.

I wouldn't have to brush my hair or do my make up, and I could wear my fuzzy Spongebob pajamas underneath and no one would know. The wind wouldn't blow in my face. People wouldn't oogle my chest or judge excess weight. They also look real warm and cozy for those cold Midwestern winters.

You're also covered from head to toe, often even the eyes, and body language is entirely cut off. Outlines of humanity and traces of femininity are erased.
And, ultimately, they are born of the most extreme and repressive forms of Islam. Even many Muslim nations ban them for this connection. And keep in mind, something like a hijab isn't uncommon, even for non-Muslim women. They don't cut off body language, facial expressions, and other traces of humanity. The burka does, and is seen in places controlled by groups like the Taliban.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

They also look real warm and cozy for those cold Midwestern winters.

Less so for Australian summers. I feel sorry for the women wearing them here in 110f + temperatures.

I don't think they're choosing when to wear it for practical reasons...

 

[JustGeorge]

You're also covered from head to toe, often even the eyes, and body language is entirely cut off. Outlines of humanity and traces of femininity are erased.
And, ultimately, they are born of the most extreme and repressive forms of Islam. Even many Muslim nations ban them for this connection. And keep in mind, something like a hijab isn't uncommon, even for non-Muslim women. They don't cut off body language, facial expressions, and other traces of humanity. The burka does, and is seen in places controlled by groups like the Taliban.

Having my femininity, body language, and facial expression cut off would be a huge plus for me. Honestly, people often dislike me because I'm not feminine enough, and don't show body language or facial expression that our culture expects a woman to show. Wearing a burqa would relieve me of a great burden.

But, I totally have no religious purpose to wear one. Just sayin', I could see an appeal. I don't, however, believe anyone should be forced to wear anything they don't want to, though.

Less so for Australian summers. I feel sorry for the women wearing them here in 110f + temperatures.

I don't think they're choosing when to wear it for practical reasons...

I often feel bad for Muslim women in high heat, even those not in burqa. They usually have to have their arms covered to the wrist and wear pants aside from the head covering, and it just looks hot.

 

[DNB]

Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place for saying this

I agree, I think that the burka and hedjab are excessive, and say more about the those who have legislated it other than those who may defy wearing it.
But, of course, I profoundly dislike provocative and lewd attire. For, as far as I am concerned, this says more about those that don such garments, as opposed to those who may leer a little extra longer at it than usual.
Keep your private areas reserved for your husband, and no one else. People flaunt their greatest assets, if your showing too much skin, you're, to a large degree, professing that you lack anything else to offer, at least of equal value.

 

[Lain]

Less so for Australian summers. I feel sorry for the women wearing them here in 110f + temperatures.

I don't think they're choosing when to wear it for practical reasons...

Burqas and such wear is actually cool in the hot weather. Covering the skin in the heat with breathable material keeps one far cooler than having it uncovered. These things were made to be worn there, so I would expect nothing less.

 

[JustGeorge]

Burqas and such wear is actually cool in the hot weather. Covering the skin in the heat with breathable material keeps one far cooler than having it uncovered. These things were made to be worn there, so I would expect nothing less.

I suspect the color of the garment comes into play here.

Which confuses the mess out of me that so many women wear black burqas. I've heard it said that they risk see-through with white, but if you buy quality material, this isn't a problem.

 

[anna.]

I think I know what you mean. Sometimes I wrap my dupatta around my head/neck for no reason other than I want to. It feels good, and comfortable in a quiet sort of way.

Yes, you do know what I mean. I like that, "in a quiet sort of way." I don't always want to deal with the world and I like this way of stepping back from it. But I do understand it's a choice. I have the freedom to make a choice.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place for saying this

I tend to agree.

I will concede that modesty is pretty much culturally defined. In some cultures, you have to wear a lot of clothes. In other cultures, you can go stark naked. Having cultural modesty rules is a way to use non-verbal communication to indicate who is available for sex.

But there is a limit. I am uncomfortable with the idea that someone should have to deal with being overheated from excessive clothing. But I really draw a firm line when someone's face is covered. Covering the face renders someone a non-person. It strips them of their individuality and personhood. That's just wrong. It goes way too far.

 

[InChrist]

Honestly if men tries to hide a woman in a burka or in some other ways, then it is not the woman that is the problem. It is the men. If a man can not control his lust without hiding away the females. The veil isn't in the clothes it is in the mind.

Oh boy am I gonna be put in place for saying this

I agree.