I have a question about use of niqab and corona face mask.

[firedragon]

Well the issue was, that @Piculet did seem to assume to know why most females wore what they wore (to attract males, for example), and I was pointing out a similar presumption. I'm not claiming anything, other than the fact that many Muslims in countries where there doesn't seem to be any pressure to wear whatever wear what they want, whereas if we look at those countries where such things as the niqab and burqa are worn more don't seem to have such freedoms.

Well. You are absolutely right to say that it is wrong to assess that women wear revealing clothes to attract men. Thats their social norm or at least maybe and its absolutely hypocritical to accuse them of "trying to attract men" which could be true, and false. Taking that kind of general position without making some kind of research analysis with a decent sample size and a hypothesis based on in-depth interviews is simply being a bigot. Sorry to use that word, but muslim, atheist, christian or alien, one who does this hypocrisy is a bigot.

Saying that, I would like to tell you Mock Turtle that of course in countries with no pressure to wear some garb there will be variance, yet you should also take to your assessment single women wearing burqas and veils in countries with no pressure whatsoever. Actually this attire is on the increase and more and more women are adapting to it willingly or purposefully. Thus, I would like to not disagree with you but complement with additional information.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well. You are absolutely right to say that it is wrong to assess that women wear revealing clothes to attract men. Thats their social norm or at least maybe and its absolutely hypocritical to accuse them of "trying to attract men" which could be true, and false. Taking that kind of general position without making some kind of research analysis with a decent sample size and a hypothesis based on in-depth interviews is simply being a bigot. Sorry to use that word, but muslim, atheist, christian or alien, one who does this hypocrisy is a bigot.

Saying that, I would like to tell you Mock Turtle that of course in countries with no pressure to wear some garb there will be variance, yet you should also take to your assessment single women wearing burqas and veils in countries with no pressure whatsoever. Actually this attire is on the increase and more and more women are adapting to it willingly or purposefully. Thus, I would like to not disagree with you but complement with additional information.

Well I just don't know what affects the decision for Muslim females to wear such attire and I am open to factual evidence. I've come across quite a few articles by females discussing why they wear whatever (their choice they say) but an individual is not going to persuade me as to it being the likely reason for all or even most. I really don't know, apart from some countries where it appears to be mandatory.

 

[Piculet]

Well I just don't know what affects the decision for Muslim females to wear such attire and I am open to factual evidence. I've come across quite a few articles by females discussing why they wear whatever (their choice they say) but an individual is not going to persuade me as to it being the likely reason for all or even most. I really don't know, apart from some countries where it appears to be mandatory.

I suspect you know, but you want a different answer.

 

[firedragon]

Well I just don't know what affects the decision for Muslim females to wear such attire and I am open to factual evidence. I've come across quite a few articles by females discussing why they wear whatever (their choice they say) but an individual is not going to persuade me as to it being the likely reason for all or even most. I really don't know, apart from some countries where it appears to be mandatory.

Please clarify. You mean to say that you find it hard to believe that women would wear "such attire" like a niqab or burqa or veil or whatever by choice but only oppression or pressure?

Am I understanding you right?

 

[Mock Turtle]

I suspect you know, but you want a different answer.

Well I am open to what ever are the true reasons, unlike yourself in assuming why females do dress as they do.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Please clarify. You mean to say that you find it hard to believe that women would wear "such attire" like a niqab or burqa or veil or whatever by choice but only oppression or pressure?

Am I understanding you right?

No, I just don't know why many would wear such. There could be many reasons, and pressure from others just being one example, wherever that came from. For example, here in this article (and the Redditt thread mentioned), there isn't really any mention of burqas or niqabs:

Muslim women explain how they feel about wearing a burqa or a headscarf

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well I am open to what ever are the true reasons, unlike yourself in assuming why females do dress as they do.

In my understanding Muslim woman dress modesty as they can, some see it as a duty to dress so they do not raise men's attention, except for their husband. That is all I know from speaking with Muslims here I live.
So to me if a woman want to cover them self, it is up to them self.
I do not know if their husband can demand it of them or not. For the most part I believe Muslim females are free to do as they wish, as long it is within the guidelines of the Quran. But I could be wrong

 

[Mock Turtle]

In my understanding Muslim woman dress modesty as they can, some see it as a duty to dress so they do not raise men's attention, except for their husband. That is all I know from speaking with Muslims here I live.
So to me if a woman want to cover them self, it is up to them self.
I do not know if their husband can demand it of them or not. For the most part I believe Muslim females are free to do as they wish, as long it is within the guidelines of the Quran. But I could be wrong

I doubt most of us have any problems with how any female dresses, apart from the niqab/burqa-like garments, and why there have been so many bans put in place (various reasons given):

 

[Spirit of Light]

I doubt most of us have any problems with how any female dresses, apart from the niqab/burqa-like garments, and why there have been so many bans put in place (various reasons given):

View attachment 42191

I can only speak for my self, personally I have no problem with female who wear niqab or burka. But I understand many people are unsure about those who wear it.

 

[firedragon]

No, I just don't know why many would wear such. There could be many reasons, and pressure from others just being one example, wherever that came from. For example, here in this article (and the Redditt thread mentioned), there isn't really any mention of burqas or niqabs:

Muslim women explain how they feel about wearing a burqa or a headscarf

Why, will have subjective responses. So better not generalise anything to anyone.

 

[Piculet]

I do not know if their husband can demand it of them or not.

When it comes to modest dress and covering of the head, the husband has an important duty to advice his wife and if the wife simply refuses to dress appropriately, he would be well advised to divorce her (I have seen multiple scholarly answers to this issue).

 

[firedragon]

When it comes to modest dress and covering of the head, the husband has an important duty to advice his wife and if the wife simply refuses to dress appropriately, he would be well advised to divorce her (I have seen multiple scholarly answers to this issue).

Oh yes. The husband takes the role of God who decides for another person, so he is worshiping himself which is taking his own havah as ilah which is a shirk as described in the Qur'an.

 

[firedragon]

No, I just don't know why many would wear such. There could be many reasons, and pressure from others just being one example, wherever that came from. For example, here in this article (and the Redditt thread mentioned), there isn't really any mention of burqas or niqabs:

Muslim women explain how they feel about wearing a burqa or a headscarf

I suggest that you read some material since you seem like a reader. There was some extensive work done in the book "The Muslim veil in north America" which is a good read contributed to by many, even some good research. Yet this is specific to women in North America. It will be interesting to understand why women wear what they wear on their own and what drove them to wear as such, especially being a free society with no threat or oppression like you suggest in other countries. If you get the book read the article on the page 105. This is extensive work, not fiction and presumption based rhetoric. Maybe you would like it.

Cheers.

 

[1213]

Well the mask I use protect both my self and other from getting sick, I can not see the problem with both protecting one self and others from getting or spreading a virus.

Interesting, some say it makes things only worse.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Interesting, some say it makes things only worse.

Yes I know some say that, but I don't see a problem with the mask, it has helped me in so many ways. And I have not made anyone sick by wearing it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The other day I was a trip in to the city, and when I was waiting for the bus I wore sunglasses and face mask. Next to me there was a family where the woman wore a niqab.
When we stood there a Norwegian man come up to the woman, starting to bully her for covering up her face.

I stepped for ward and asked the angry man, why he bullied her, but not since I to was covering my face totally and could not be identified, he was unsure what to answer so he run away.

So why is it ok for me to cover up fully, and not her? Is it because she is a Muslim who " don't do it on her free will" ?

Hi Amanaki. Prejudice - an emotional attachment to an untruth. All people should be treated with courtesy and kindness regardless of race, religion or nationality. We are all one race - the human race. You did a wonderful humane thing.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hi Amanaki. Prejudice - an emotional attachment to an untruth. All people should be treated with courtesy and kindness regardless of race, religion or nationality. We are all one race - the human race. You did a wonderful humane thing.

I did what I expect anyone should do, protect those who are attacked by ignorant people

 

[stvdv]

Okay. If I misunderstood you, I apologise profusely.

You did misunderstand me, but reading back my reply, I understand why. You shared a story and while replying to you, I used the word conspiracy theory (not meaning your story, but still; next time I will use some extra words to avoid such misunderstanding). And your reply was actually friendly (after having had a few others comparatively aggressively replying to me on some misunderstanding). You just asked a friendly question how I came to this conspiracy. So, although you misunderstood, you replied very good/friendly I thought.

 

[stvdv]

The issue I have with this world is that most of us make generalizations based on an anecdotal experience.

This I understand and agree with. In my case I shared one of my experiences and concluded "so there are people who think like this". I thought that was the opposite of generalization. If I would have said "All (or even many) people think like that", that would have been generalization.

And this is for me also a hot topic. When talking about religion/faith or lack thereof, generalizations easily pop up. The moment one believes that His Religion is the only way, and especially when added that it is for everyone, I think you have the "master of generalization". Maybe this is one of the reasons that like you say "most of us make generalizations based on anecdotal experience". Some people make religious claims without even any personal experience, and forget to mention that it's their opinion, based on hearsay or faith. Sharing in such a way would solve a lot IMO.

 

[firedragon]

You did misunderstand me, but reading back my reply, I understand why. You shared a story and while replying to you, I used the word conspiracy theory (not meaning your story, but still; next time I will use some extra words to avoid such misunderstanding). And your reply was actually friendly (after having had a few others comparatively aggressively replying to me on some misunderstanding). You just asked a friendly question how I came to this conspiracy. So, although you misunderstood, you replied very good/friendly I thought.

Err. Brother. I think its just your character to think people are friendly. Thats just your character and that is extremely rare. I can't actually even remember being friendly whatsoever.

That means I must give you some kind of kudos no???