I have another question for YOU to ignore

[savagewind]

You obviously don't understand what you just posted. Remember, you stated "I think that they used to call themselves of the 144,000", I told you that they didn't. Now you've just posted the above, nowhere in the above does it show the governing body or the anointed ones being called the 144,000. It does read that all the anointed and governing body "will be appointed", notice the future tense "will be" appointed to the 144,000 and not "are already" the 144,000. Once again, you CANNOT be part of the 144,000 until you're in heaven.

So does it mean that they might not be appointed?

So? Am I responsible for someones actions who I don't even know?

As I said, you must believe in the core teachings of the Bible and be baptized in that teaching, if the only branch of religion who teach what the bible actually teaches is the JW's, then you would get baptized under us. Its not my paradise, but, Gods. Anyone can learn off anyone.

That is good to know.

And that's the exact reason why I also showed Psalms 37:29 along with it, as the scripture sheds some light on the matter, it states "the righteous" are the ones who will possess it. Therefore if Jesus again mentioned that the Earth will be inherited in Matt 5:5, then it will be non-other than the righteous mentioned in Psalms 37:29 who will be inheriting it.

Yes, but like you have said about the 144,000. It won't be so until it happens. Those scriptures show us God's will for the Earth. It is our job to make it right. It is not God's job to make it right.

 

[NWL]

So does it mean that they might not be appointed?

(Matthew 22:14) “For there are many invited, but few chosen.”

Not all who profess to be anointed will become part of the 144,000. I'm sure there are some who profess to be anointed when they actually aren't.

Yes, but like you have said about the 144,000. It won't be so until it happens. Those scriptures show us God's will for the Earth. It is our job to make it right. It is not God's job to make it right.

It IS God's job to make it right, It's not our job, we are but flesh. Satan is in control of this world and cannot contend with him, all we can do is obey Gods direction and let him do the rest, God is the one who will vindicate his name, not us.

 

[savagewind]

Did you say I have a thing for the JWs. The reason why is that I heard at convention that, "soon 6 billion hearts will stop beating" and I thought, Jesus Christ! You KNOW there are people who are more righteous than some of these but those you are saving and those you are killing? I don't believe it! That was the turning point for me. But I stayed loyal for a time. They wouldn't answer some questions I had and then I was told to get in line with the governing body. I think I understand Psalms 146:3 a whole lot better than you do @NWL. So I left. There were many other things.

 

[savagewind]

(Matthew 22:14) “For there are many invited, but few chosen.”

Not all who profess to be anointed will become part of the 144,000. I'm sure there are some who profess to be anointed when they actually aren't.

Might some governing body members be lying?

It IS God's job to make it right, It's not our job, we are but flesh.

Incorrect. God put the Earth in subjection to Adam from the start.

Satan is in control of this world and cannot contend with him, all we can do is obey Gods direction and let him do the rest, God is the one who will vindicate his name, not us.

God's Name was vindicated with Jesus. Please catch up, for goodness' sake!

 

[NWL]

Might some governing body members be lying?

Only God knows.

Incorrect. God put the Earth in subjection to Adam from the start.

Sigh. It pains me that you claim you were a JW and yet over and over again you show a major lack of knowledge. Yes the world was put in subjection to Adam but this was lost and given to Jesus, you should know this.

(Hebrews 2:7-9) "..You made him [Adam] a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8 All things you subjected under his feet.” By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him. 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by God’s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone.."

God's Name was vindicated with Jesus. Please catch up, for goodness' sake!

No! Stop with your pride and thinking you know above everyone. You once again shame yourself, Gods name is not vindicated until his great day of Armageddon, any christian should know this let alone a former JW.

(Ezekiel 38:18-20,23) “...‘On that day, the day when Gog invades the land of Israel,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘my great rage will flare up. 19 In my zeal, in the fire of my fury, I will speak; and in that day there will be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 Because of me the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts of the field, all the reptiles that creep on the ground, and all humans on the surface of the earth will tremble, and the mountains will be thrown down, and the cliffs will fall, and every wall will collapse to the ground....’And I will certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.’..."

Has any of the above happened? Nope, then God is not yet vindicated.

 

[savagewind]

Only God knows.



Sigh. It pains me that you claim you were a JW and yet over and over again you show a major lack of knowledge. Yes the world was put in subjection to Adam but this was lost and given to Jesus, you should know this.

(Hebrews 2:7-9) "..You made him [Adam] a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8 All things you subjected under his feet.” By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him. 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by God’s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone.."



No! Stop with your pride and thinking you know above everyone. You once again shame yourself, Gods name is not vindicated until his great day of Armageddon, any christian should know this let alone a former JW.

(Ezekiel 38:18-20,23) “...‘On that day, the day when Gog invades the land of Israel,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘my great rage will flare up. 19 In my zeal, in the fire of my fury, I will speak; and in that day there will be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 Because of me the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts of the field, all the reptiles that creep on the ground, and all humans on the surface of the earth will tremble, and the mountains will be thrown down, and the cliffs will fall, and every wall will collapse to the ground....’And I will certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.’..."

Has any of the above happened? Nope, then God is not yet vindicated.

You say, "God knows" if the governing body members are true which means they might not be. THEY are the ones who are telling you what is done and what isn't done. Might they be wrong?

 

[savagewind]

Sigh. It pains me that you claim you were a JW and yet over and over again you show a major lack of knowledge. Yes the world was put in subjection to Adam but this was lost and given to Jesus, you should know this.

Hebrews 2:7-9) "..You made him [Adam] a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8 All things you subjected under his feet.” By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him. 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by God’s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone.."
.

You say Adam was given the Earth for subjecting it but he lost that. We agree on this I think.

Then you say that Jesus was given it. And it seems as though there it ends for you. He is keeping it, I assume.

What about this?

1 John 2;14 I write to you, dear children, because you know the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

These?

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength

Philippians 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

The power that Adam lost Jesus gave it back to us. Did he not give it back to you? Why not?

 

[savagewind]

Do you think this is easy? It's as easy as teaching color to a blind person. It should be easier imo.

 

[savagewind]

Why doesn't 1 John 5:19 read thus:

We know that of God we are and the whole world with the evil one is destined?

Compare Luke 2:34 Philippians 1:16

 

[NWL]

You say Adam was given the Earth for subjecting it but he lost that. We agree on this I think.

Then you say that Jesus was given it. And it seems as though there it ends for you. He is keeping it, I assume.

Jesus will keep the earth until the end of the millennial reign when he hands back all things to the Father, this is cleary expressed in scripture:

(1 Corinthians 15:24, 25) "...Next, the end, when he [Jesus] hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet..."

1 John 2;14 I write to you, dear children, because you know the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

If you really want to believe that we are to overcome Satan then believe it, I'll stick to believing the bible where clearly shows that God is to destroy Satan.

(Revelation 20:10) And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

By the why, 1 John 2:14 is talking about overcoming Satan in the sense of being faithful, read the surrounding context (v15-21) and you'll see John urging the people to remain faithful, this is after his statement of "you have overcome the wicked one". Thus if they had all truly overcome Satan then it would be pointless to encourage them to KEEP steadfast in their faithfulness as Satan had already be conquered by them, apparently.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength

Philippians 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

The power that Adam lost Jesus gave it back to us. Did he not give it back to you? Why not?

I really don't know whose taught you all this or where you could get this type if thinking from. Where do any of the above verses you mention express that the power God gives us is the same power Adam lost? You're assuming.

 

[savagewind]

Jesus will keep the earth until the end of the millennial reign when he hands back all things to the Father, this is cleary expressed in scripture:

(1 Corinthians 15:24, 25) "...Next, the end, when he [Jesus] hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet..."



If you really want to believe that we are to overcome Satan then believe it, I'll stick to believing the bible where clearly shows that God is to destroy Satan.

(Revelation 20:10) And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

By the why, 1 John 2:14 is talking about overcoming Satan in the sense of being faithful, read the surrounding context (v15-21) and you'll see John urging the people to remain faithful, this is after his statement of "you have overcome the wicked one". Thus if they had all truly overcome Satan then it would be pointless to encourage them to KEEP steadfast in their faithfulness as Satan had already be conquered by them, apparently.



I really don't know whose taught you all this or where you could get this type if thinking from. Where do any of the above verses you mention express that the power God gives us is the same power Adam lost? You're assuming.

I suppose it is your opinion that a person sins only under satan?

 

[NWL]

I suppose it is your opinion that a person sins only under satan?

What do you mean under Satan?

 

[savagewind]

What do you mean under Satan?

Because you said this:

"Thus if they had all truly overcome Satan then it would be pointless to encourage them to KEEP steadfast in their faithfulness as Satan had already be conquered by them, apparently."

 

[savagewind]

It seems that Jehovah's Witnesses are all about people dying. It is why I left.

According to you, Satan needs to be dead before God's will can be accomplished.

 

[NWL]

Because you said this:

"Thus if they had all truly overcome Satan then it would be pointless to encourage them to KEEP steadfast in their faithfulness as Satan had already be conquered by them, apparently."

I know why you asked the question, I'm asking what does "sinning under Satan" mean.

It seems that Jehovah's Witnesses are all about people dying. It is why I left.

According to you, Satan needs to be dead before God's will can be accomplished.

No, from what I've observed from talking to you lack much biblical knowledge, therefore I'm not surprised your understanding of the JW faith was also lacking when you were one, which probable led you to leave, as you said.

The bible states that "Jehovah...does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) We as JW's desire the same thing as God, the same way he doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, we don't either. We would much rather have the whole world follow God and live instead of dying. The fact remains, the Bible foretells that a large number of people will die, this is NOT JW's saying this BUT the Bible.

(Matthew 7:13, 14) “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.

As the above verse shows, many people will go off into destruction but few into life. For you to say JW's teach that people will/must die is wrong, as its not what we teach, but rather, what the bible teaches. If you can't handle that the JW's preach the bible message then that's your downfall.

According to you, Satan needs to be dead before God's will can be accomplished.

No, not according to me, but according to the Bible. How can Gods "be all things to everyone" (1 Cor 15:28) if Satan and his followers still exist? How can there be peace in Heaven and Earth if Satan exists? There can't be, It is Gods will that Satan be destroyed so that his will can be accomplished.

 

[savagewind]

I know why you asked the question, I'm asking what does "sinning under Satan" mean.

Because of. It means because of. Come on! Surely you know how to think?

 

[savagewind]

@NWL Several times now you have said I don't know what the Bible says because I don't know it YOUR way. Is this because it is impossible for you to be wrong or is it because you only think it is impossible for you to be wrong?

Might you perhaps take this one to heart (or is it OLD light)?

James 4:10

I have another question please. Why do you not apply Psalms 146:3 to the governing body?

 

[NWL]

Because of. It means because of. Come on! Surely you know how to think?

I had an idea but wanted to be sure. No we do not all sin because of Satan, for example Eve sinned because of Satan, Adam sinned because he chose to.

@NWL Several times now you have said I don't know what the Bible says because I don't know it YOUR way. Is this because it is impossible for you to be wrong or is it because you only think it is impossible for you to be wrong? Might you perhaps take this one to heart (or is it OLD light)?

No, it's not impossible for me to be wrong. The difference is that you have said a few things which are directly contrary to scripture which are universally understood to be christian and not solely based on the JW faith, I can go ahead and list them.

1.You keep saying that JW's are all about people dying when in fact this is the bibles prophecy, not our teaching. See Matt 7:13.
2. You stated that its our job to "put things right" on the Earth when it actually Gods job. See Rev 21:3,4 "God will wipe out tears from our eyes"
3. You stated that the earth was subject and is subject to Adam/man, when in fact its not, its subject to Jesus. See Hebrews 2:7-9.
4. You stated "Paradise Earth is not a promise" in relation to faithful mankind, when it is. See Matt 5:5, Psalms 37:29.
5. You stated "By us they are made by God" in regards to the making of new disciples, even though 1 Corinthians 3:5-7 shows disciples are made through us by God.
6. You stated that mathéteuó means "disciple" when it doesn't, it means "make into disciples". See strongs dictionary of Matt 28:19.

So again, I'm not saying you lack understanding because you don't agree with me, but because you don't agree with what the Bible says as I've demonstrated above.

I have another question please. Why do you not apply Psalms 146:3 to the governing body?

The meaning of not putting your trust in men is in relation to the thinking and teaching of men apart from God. The Governing body don't push their human thinking on people and make it doctrine, they based their beliefs on the Bible, thus their teaching is not of men but of God since they are only re-teaching the teachings of the Bible.

 

[savagewind]

I had an idea but wanted to be sure. No we do not all sin because of Satan, for example Eve sinned because of Satan, Adam sinned because he chose to.
No, it's not impossible for me to be wrong. The difference is that you have said a few things which are directly contrary to scripture which are universally understood to be christian and not solely based on the JW faith, I can go ahead and list them.

Thank you

1.You keep saying that JW's are all about people dying when in fact this is the bibles prophecy, not our teaching. See Matt 7:13.

Then tell me why God prophesies AGAINST God's own will. 1 Timothy 2:4

2. You stated that its our job to "put things right" on the Earth when it actually Gods job. See Rev 21:3,4 "God will wipe out tears from our eyes"

We do not do it alone. It is as though JWs teach that Jesus will do it FOR us and that it won't happen until after the last day. 2 Timothy 2:15

3. You stated that the earth was subject and is subject to Adam/man, when in fact its not, its subject to Jesus. See Hebrews 2:7-9.

And? Jesus, The Man. He leads, we follow. Look at it this way. Since Adam but before Jesus God's people were disunited from Jehovah. Baptism brings people back to Jehovah. Now we share with Jesus what Adam lost.

4. You stated "Paradise Earth is not a promise" in relation to faithful mankind, when it is. See Matt 5:5, Psalms 37:29.

I understand. It will be only when people willingly take back what Adam lost. If nobody knows how to take it back, then what? Will it happen on it's own? HOW?

5. You stated "By us they are made by God" in regards to the making of new disciples, even though 1 Corinthians 3:5-7 shows disciples are made through us by God.

It is higher grammar. It doesn't really matter much.

6. You stated that mathéteuó means "disciple" when it doesn't, it means "make into disciples". See strongs dictionary of Matt 28:19.

Why does it have to say make? I know! Too many Bibles. A question. A zealous soul reads, "go make!" so he does. Or a wise person reads," Disciple the nations in the name of the Father, son and holy spirit." The first one might not have made himself a true disciple yet, but the second one knows that his job is to be the best disciple he can possibly be. The governing body and Babylon the Great are giving God's people TWO jobs to do. It is a no wonder people are lost.

So again, I'm not saying you lack understanding because you don't agree with me, but because you don't agree with what the Bible says as I've demonstrated above.

Perhaps you might shift your loyalty from the Bible to The Son? Because the son can explain to you every hidden thing, but you must listen to and trust HIM.

The meaning of not putting your trust in men is in relation to the thinking and teaching of men apart from God. The Governing body don't push their human thinking on people and make it doctrine, they based their beliefs on the Bible, thus their teaching is not of men but of God since they are only re-teaching the teachings of the Bible.

They are teaching what people before them have said the Bible means. Those people are dead. They can't help us.

 

[savagewind]

The lamb of God is spotless. I know we agree!
A sacrifice to God should be spotless.
Might evil and wrong be synonymous?
Jehovah's Witness have to admit that the Bible is not spotless. The reason? They found it saying that Jesus is God! OK?
If it can be with spot once, it can be with spot twice...........I think that is a fact that no one should deny (but people will).

So it is with spots. A good story would be that someone put them there for evil purposes. But it is more likely they got there by accident.

Someone is responsible for a mistake that in turn is causing people to trust in the mistake. Whenever you trust in a mistake it becomes impossible to also trust the spotless ONE. I think this is math, so true.

Try to pretend that someone is you. I do. The very real people who made the mistakes are dead. But according to Jehovah, they live. It is because Jehovah is Timeless.

Real mistakes made their way into The Word. But not the REAL WORD.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF PEOPLE MIGHT DIE BECAUSE THEY ARE IN LOVE WITH YOUR MISTAKES? Hungry? Powerless? Naked? Friendless?
I would feel all those things.

That is why it is important to keep the book, the law, and the commandments, but not before Jehovah. Christians know that it means it is important to know the Book, but they don't know Jehovah John 16:7-8

See? If you keep the words first, you reject the Spirit. Then you make all those who came before us suffer. When you cause suffering, you reap suffering.