I have some deep question about God, help!

[Trailblazer]

The world and its history are full of people who claim to speak for various gods (not to mention those with other supernatural or paranormal claims). They often contradict each other and cannot possibly all be right. In fact, at least most of them must be wrong.

The fact that there have been many false prophets does not prove there are no real Prophets (Messengers of God). To say that is to employ the fallacy of hasty generalization. If we look only at the original message of the True Messengers of God before man change it and corrupted it, we see that these messages they do not contradict each other, but rather they differ because each Messenger brings a new message that is suitable to the age in which He appeared.

There is no objective evidence, that I'm aware of, that any of them were correct. The perfectly reasonable alternative hypothesis, that fits the evidence far better, is that people have a tendency to believe in unseen influences and detect agency, where there is none (see: agent detection). Rather like the reason we 'see' faces in clouds and fires...

There is objective evidence of the lives of some of these Messengers and what they revealed and wrote can be considered objective evidence. One would have a difficult time coming up with an explanation for the way they lived and died and the lasting effects they had upon humanity other than the fact that they were serving God. There is no other motive for what they did in their lives other than that. That is the way we should reason it out if reason matters.

 

[JChnsc19]

You do not like the Messengers God sends and the religions they reveal.

?uh... Which messengers? Which religions? Which god? What in the world are you talking about?

 

[Remté]

?uh... Which messengers? Which religions? Which god? What in the world are you talking about?

Clearly they are speaking in general terms.

 

[ratiocinator]

It is the rational approach and there is nothing wrong with that. We should approach everything rationally. That is why God gave us a rational mind. It is self-centered because it is based upon what you want.

I still don't see how it's self-centred. Perhaps you misunderstand, I don't want evidence for any god(s), I'm just not prepared to accept that any gods exist until and unless I have some reasons to do so.

God ideas are not God; they are just ideas about God. There is only One True God, not a bunch of different gods...

So you claim - how do you know?

How God reveals Himself to us is the only evidence we can ever have.

I see no revelation. I see lots and lots of different religions, cults, and sects, and none them stand out as at all believable.

I would take God seriously because religions exist and they did not drop out of the sky.

Same could be said of any other superstition, conspiracy theory, myth, or legend. Humans make stuff up.

There is an explanation as to why some religions appear to be man-made, but it’s very late here so I would have to explain that later if you want to know.

They all seem "man-made" to me...

The fact that there have been many false prophets does not prove there are no real Prophets (Messengers of God).

I didn't say it did. However, if there is or are any real god(s), then it or they are not doing a good job of communication if its or their message doesn't stand out from all the false ones.

If we look only at the original message of the True Messengers of God before man change it and corrupted it, we see that these messages they do not contradict each other, but rather they differ because each Messenger brings a new message that is suitable to the age in which He appeared.

So, if you cherry-pick the messages, they don't contradict each other - wow!

There is objective evidence of the lives of some of these Messengers and what they revealed and wrote can be considered objective evidence. One would have a difficult time coming up with an explanation for the way they lived and died and the lasting effects they had upon humanity other than the fact that they were serving God. There is no other motive for what they did in their lives other than that. That is the way we should reason it out if reason matters.

I don't have a difficult time at all coming up with other explanations: they got it wrong is the first and most obvious one.

 

[Remté]

I didn't say it did. However, if there is or are any real god(s), then it or they are not doing a good job of communication if its or their message doesn't stand out from all the false ones.

Maybe it's you who doesn't do a good job understanding the right ones.

 

[nPeace]

Wow. So many atheists saying there is no God.
Perhaps they know because a sparrow told them.

How the scriptures put it is quite different.
In his haughtiness, the wicked man makes no investigation; All his thoughts are: “There is no God.”
The foolish one says in his heart: “There is no Jehovah.” Their actions are corrupt, and their dealings are detestable; No one is doing good. But Jehovah looks down from heaven on the sons of men To see whether anyone has insight, whether anyone is seeking Jehovah.
Psalm 10:4; 14:1, 2

It amuses me.

 

[JChnsc19]

The fact that there have been many false prophets does not prove there are no real Prophets (Messengers of God). To say that is to employ the fallacy of hasty generalization. If we look only at the original message of the True Messengers of God before man change it and corrupted it, we see that these messages they do not contradict each other, but rather they differ because each Messenger brings a new message that is suitable to the age in which He appeared.

There is objective evidence of the lives of some of these Messengers and what they revealed and wrote can be considered objective evidence. One would have a difficult time coming up with an explanation for the way they lived and died and the lasting effects they had upon humanity other than the fact that they were serving God. There is no other motive for what they did in their lives other than that. That is the way we should reason it out if reason matters.

”if we look only at the original message before man changed it & corrupted it”- how do you have access to original, written on papyrus documents that the church doesn’t have access to? How did you get ahold of those? What language are they in?

 

[Remté]

”if we look only at the original message before man changed it & corrupted it”- how do you have access to original, written on papyrus documents that the church doesn’t have access to? How did you get ahold of those? What language are they in?

I read the Quran. It has the original message that hasn't been changed.

 

[Remté]

Wow. So many atheists saying there is no God.
Perhaps they know because a sparrow told them.

A sparrow told a friend's friend maybe.

 

[ratiocinator]

I didn't say it did. However, if there is or are any real god(s), then it or they are not doing a good job of communication if its or their message doesn't stand out from all the false ones.

Maybe it's you who doesn't do a good job understanding the right ones.

Maybe, but I'm just a human being trying to make sense of stuff and a god would be, well, a god, who would, one assumes, be able to make its message clear to everybody, and not have it look (to at least some of us mere mortals) for all the world like all the false ones.

In fact, come to think of it, it must look like all the false ones to most people; whichever god(s) you believe in, most people think you are wrong.

 

[nPeace]

A sparrow told a friend's friend maybe.

...and the word got passed on orally. So it must be accurate, since it would be free of copyist errors. The Gospel according to... a little birdie.

 

[ratiocinator]

Wow. So many atheists saying there is no God.
Perhaps they know because a sparrow told them.

How the scriptures put it is quite different.
In his haughtiness, the wicked man makes no investigation; All his thoughts are: “There is no God.”
The foolish one says in his heart: “There is no Jehovah.” Their actions are corrupt, and their dealings are detestable; No one is doing good. But Jehovah looks down from heaven on the sons of men To see whether anyone has insight, whether anyone is seeking Jehovah.
Psalm 10:4; 14:1, 2

It amuses me.

Wow - quoting and old, inconsistent, often self-contradictory collection of books, that says my position is "foolish" and that I'm "corrupt" and "detestable".

Well, I'm convinced, I'll just be off to the nearest church so see what to do...

...oh, hang on a minute, because said old collection of books is inconsistent and often self-contradictory, there are multiple different denominations, cults, and sects that all say they follow it. Oh, and what about the other scriptures?

 

[Remté]

Maybe, but I'm just a human being trying to make sense of stuff and a god would be, well, a god, who would, one assumes, be able to make its message clear to everybody, and not have it look (to at least some of us mere mortals) for all the world like all the false ones.

In fact, come to think of it, it must look like all the false ones to most people; whichever god(s) you believe in, most people think you are wrong.

You aren't sincere.

 

[nPeace]

Wow - quoting and old, inconsistent, often self-contradictory collection of books, that says my position is "foolish" and that I'm "corrupt" and "detestable".

Well, I'm convinced, I'll just be off to the nearest church so see what to do...

...oh, hang on a minute, because said old collection of books is inconsistent and often self-contradictory, there are multiple different denominations, cults, and sects that all say they follow it. Oh, and what about the other scriptures?

That need not be the case, you know.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

Only one thing is needed to see clearly, and realize that perceived contradictions and confusion are relative.
Why do you think this is here.

Spoiler

Matthew 13:11-15
11 “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted. 12 For whoever has, more will be given him, and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13 That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’

Imagine that! An ancient book that never misses hitting the target - 100% accurate. Some person obviously knows more than we do.

 

[ratiocinator]

You aren't sincere.

You have no answers.

 

[ratiocinator]

That need not be the case, you know.

I have no idea why you think quoting more of your inconsistent and contradictory book is going to help. I have read it.

Imagine that! An ancient book that never misses hitting the target - 100% accurate.

Except that it isn't 100% accurate. It isn't even self-consistent.

 

[nPeace]

I have no idea why you think quoting more of your inconsistent and contradictory book is going to help. I have read it.

I quote it because it evidently speaks truth.
If you think I am quoting it to sway you, or influence you, then you are again mistaken.
Consider it as part of my speech.
If you don't like it, I'm sorry, I can't help you with that.

Except that it isn't 100% accurate. It isn't even self-consistent.

To you it isn't. As said before, the confusion is relative.

 

[sooda]

...and the word got passed on orally. So it must be accurate, since it would be free of copyist errors. The Gospel according to... a little birdie.

Leviticus was written during and after the Babylonian exile, followed by the second law and then Genesis and Exodus.

 

[wandering peacefully]

Maybe, but I'm just a human being trying to make sense of stuff and a god would be, well, a god, who would, one assumes, be able to make its message clear to everybody, and not have it look (to at least some of us mere mortals) for all the world like all the false ones.

In fact, come to think of it, it must look like all the false ones to most people; whichever god(s) you believe in, most people think you are wrong.

That being the most obvious of actual facts about religion. Every one else's god and beliefs are the wrong ones. Hmm.

 

[Thief]

don't be afraid of what you might find;

oh no....be afraid
be very afraid