I hope this is not a disrespectful question

[kiwimac]

But I have always wondered how traditional hindus feel about ISKON? Does the Society enhance western views of the Dharma or not?

Kiwimac

 

[Arkangel]

But I have always wondered how traditional hindus feel about ISKON? Does the Society enhance western views of the Dharma or not?

Kiwimac

I was born a hindu in a very traditional ortodox hindu family so i guess my opinion on this matter would help.

I personaly think ISKON as just another temple i would visit. I know that Christians and Jews and Islam have a very defined understanding of their religion but for a hindu religion is not just about worshiping God but a way of life. Like bathing and then reciting your daily paryers, lighting your incense sticks and carry the aroma throughtout the house. Bathing is a very religious act for hindus, a clean body and hygene is required while praying.

ISKON is just another part of hindu dharma. Majority of Hindus do not think much of ISKON and its teaching in the wests, but when ever i see westerners dressed up in safron dress and chanting hare krsna all i think is a bunch of carzy dudes wasting their time chanting things they barely understand.

For a traditional hindu relgion us is far more like a way of life than a way for moksa. My religion says to me that to attain moksa is through introspection and displine in thought. But then again, hindusim is not something that is defined. So anything that gets you spritual peace as a place in hindusim.

 

[Valjean]

From what I've read from other Hindus Arkangel's portrayal of ISKONis as "a bunch of crazy dudes" is a common reaction. But I think most Hindus accept that they are a somewhat unusual Bhakti sect.

Arkangel also makes an important point when s/he describes traditional Hinduism as more a way of life than a religion in the Western sense.
I think almost all religions generally begin as cultures and weltanschauungs. It's only with contact with other cultures and the passage of time that religion, propriety, etiquette and morality become separate, distinguishable fields.

 

[Arkangel]

Seyorni has understood my point of view quite accurately, thankyou for that friend.

I do have respect for ISKON, but their teachings kind of differ.

I have just been a couple of times to ISKON enough to know what i am looking for, i wont find it in their. I did meet a guru their but i have met a lot of gurus, yogis, and spritual leaders and still not found one i think is whom i should listen to. I guess like Maharishi Parasuram i will have to find my own way and like him my temper and ego is my folly and my strength. I guess you will only understand my previous sentence, if you know the story of Maharishi Parasuram and google is not much of help either. It is a vedic/mytholgical story. and also my spelling of the name could be wrong.

 

[Moses the God Archetype*]

m: Hahahahahahahaha(estatic laughter), arkangel and seyorni what can i say you guys stole my thunder, basically i feel the same as far hinduism being a way of life more than a religion thats true....as far as iskon i do not like it for what it is now or what its become there's no unity within, my relationship with my eternal lord bhagavan sri krsna is personal and it does not take a iskon to legitmize my faith just my belief in him, i perform my own puja and arti and meditate alone in the confines of my own home, i'm my own guru until krsna says other wise.:flower2:

 

[kiwimac]

So for a follower of the Hindu Dharma, it is more a way of being than a thing you are doing? A life rather than an act or set of actions?

Kiwimac

 

[Moses the God Archetype*]

So for a follower of the Hindu Dharma, it is more a way of being than a thing you are doing? A life rather than an act or set of actions?

Kiwimac

m: Yes beloved this so.....dharma is the life you live in being one with the self rather than a set of actions or rigid tradition.:flower2:

 

[Arkangel]

m: Yes beloved this so.....dharma is the life you live in being one with the self rather than a set of actions or rigid tradition.:flower2:

Now my friend, you stole my thunder That sentence sums up the hindu or to be more presise sanathana dharma very elegantly. Well put.

 

[Moses the God Archetype*]

Now my friend, you stole my thunder That sentence sums up the hindu or to be more presise sanathana dharma very elegantly. Well put.

m: Thankyou arkangel many blessings to you.m:

 

[Valjean]

So for a follower of the Hindu Dharma, it is more a way of being than a thing you are doing? A life rather than an act or set of actions
Kiwimac

The primitive practitioners of any religion tend not to have a separate conceptual category for "religion", and I think Hindus may have more primitive and traditional practitioners than most religions. When they hear "Hindu" people automatically picture India. The very name is a synonym for India.

But Hinduism/Sanatana Dharma does not necessarily have to be a lifestyle or a part of Indian culture. Hinduism's a religion without official rules, doctrine, or, for that matter, officials. One famous definition of a Hindu is "anyone who doesn't object to being called a Hindu."

A Bhakti yogi practices worship, love and devotion to a Deity; Vedanta can be indistinguishable from theoretical physics. Both are considered orthodox schools of Hinduism.

I don't look or act like a "Hindu," I appear to be a born and bred WASP with a generous dose of 60's hippie thrown in, but I identify with Hindu philosophy and do not object to the designation.

 

[Jyothi]

The primitive practitioners of any religion tend not to have a separate conceptual category for "religion", and I think Hindus may have more primitive and traditional practitioners than most religions. When they hear "Hindu" people automatically picture India. The very name is a synonym for India.

But Hinduism/Sanatana Dharma does not necessarily have to be a lifestyle or a part of Indian culture. Hinduism's a religion without official rules, doctrine, or, for that matter, officials. One famous definition of a Hindu is "anyone who doesn't object to being called a Hindu."

A Bhakti yogi practices worship, love and devotion to a Deity; Vedanta can be indistinguishable from theoretical physics. Both are considered orthodox schools of Hinduism.

I don't look or act like a "Hindu," I appear to be a born and bred WASP with a generous dose of 60's hippie thrown in, but I identify with Hindu philosophy and do not object to the designation.

beautiful discussion.........

 

[Arkangel]

beautiful discussion.........

Was that sarcastic :help: If not :sorry1:

If felt, Seyorni's point to rather good. I agree with it.

Coming back to the point of ISKON, my objection is that they are only interested in rich westerners' patronage (that is puting rather duly). There is discrimination inside the temple, the rich get in through special doors while the ordinary are forced to stand in queues for everything from entering to offering prayer. That makes the whole process of worship a commodity you can buy with money. You pay a little extra and favours are done on to you. Krishna is a god of love and kindness, a god of equality and justice and ISKON are spoiling his image by only spreading their version of him. Even the spelling was changed by them. We do not pronounce krsna but Kri-sh'na, but westerns have a hard time pronouncing our names, they miss out the stress we put on sh it is said shh. I do not know, all of a sudden the name as dramatically changed. I grew up with the name Krishna, it was every where from books to TV and movies. Now the new fancy Krsna.

Pardon my ranting on the name and ISKON. I loved the stories i grew up on, the ones my grandmother used to tell me. There was no ISKON back in my grandma's days nor in my mother's days. Now they seem to have changed because of ISKON.

 

[kiwimac]

What an interesting discussion this is!

 

[Jyothi]

not at all sarcastic arkangel - i agree with most of the views expressed here, just felt that what i could say might be redundant.

however now at the risk of being repetative, i agree that most hindus consider ISKON as a part of hinduism, just like the kali cult, saivism etc.

my belief (more in line with vedantic theory)is that god, is an idea of a tremendous pool of energy, the sum total of all energy conceivable, and which resides in you me an everyother animate or inanimate object, thus making us all subsets of godliness. (this is also the underlying concept of idolism, stones represent god as much as you and i do). Krishna in my belief was human with much more godliness than you and me and that by my theory of god ties in very well. so Krishna for me is a manifestation of god, and might i say you are a manifestation of god too but only less significant.

some hindus think that some followers of ISKON do not fully understand what they speak about and sometimes get too carried away by the means and forget the end, somewhat like getting too fussy about the quality and styling of the hand held driller instead of the accuracy of the hole.

some others think that ISKON is an organization based on hierarchies etc, which does not fully tie in with the hindu view of hinduism, that does not have rules or hierarchies.

i personally think that the truth (for me) is to practice ways of increasing the pool of energy in me, such that at some point in space and time, i would be one with god, thus freeing myself of the bondage of space, time etal. that revealation would make me at once you and me and everything else, and help me be there and here at once and be then and now at once, that as far as my revealations go, is a field of whitelight, intense, hot and cold at the same time, which feels like pure love...

:thud:

 

[Moses the God Archetype*]

Was that sarcastic :help: If not :sorry1:

If felt, Seyorni's point to rather good. I agree with it.

Coming back to the point of ISKON, my objection is that they are only interested in rich westerners' patronage (that is puting rather duly). There is discrimination inside the temple, the rich get in through special doors while the ordinary are forced to stand in queues for everything from entering to offering prayer. That makes the whole process of worship a commodity you can buy with money. You pay a little extra and favours are done on to you. Krishna is a god of love and kindness, a god of equality and justice and ISKON are spoiling his image by only spreading their version of him. Even the spelling was changed by them. We do not pronounce krsna but Kri-sh'na, but westerns have a hard time pronouncing our names, they miss out the stress we put on sh it is said shh. I do not know, all of a sudden the name as dramatically changed. I grew up with the name Krishna, it was every where from books to TV and movies. Now the new fancy Krsna.

Pardon my ranting on the name and ISKON. I loved the stories i grew up on, the ones my grandmother used to tell me. There was no ISKON back in my grandma's days nor in my mother's days. Now they seem to have changed because of ISKON.

m: Yes this is very true about iskon that is why i personally keep my distance from them beloved, but you see krishna knows whats going on within iskon as well as sri prabhupada and changes will come soon, and some within iskon will not like that change for many demons will be exposed within that process......mark my words for they are not my own.:flower2:

 

[ChrisP]

my belief (more in line with vedantic theory)is that god, is an idea of a tremendous pool of energy, the sum total of all energy conceivable, and which resides in you me an everyother animate or inanimate object, thus making us all subsets of godliness. (this is also the underlying concept of idolism, stones represent god as much as you and i do). Krishna in my belief was human with much more godliness than you and me and that by my theory of god ties in very well. so Krishna for me is a manifestation of god, and might i say you are a manifestation of god too but only less significant

Apologies for the intrusion friends. Jyothi, would you care to discuss this more? I'd be quite interested to talk about this, discussions of this nature are sorely lacking at present!

I know you're not around much, but perhaps we could make a new thread for this?

 

[Moses the God Archetype*]

not at all sarcastic arkangel - i agree with most of the views expressed here, just felt that what i could say might be redundant.

however now at the risk of being repetative, i agree that most hindus consider ISKON as a part of hinduism, just like the kali cult, saivism etc.

my belief (more in line with vedantic theory)is that god, is an idea of a tremendous pool of energy, the sum total of all energy conceivable, and which resides in you me an everyother animate or inanimate object, thus making us all subsets of godliness. (this is also the underlying concept of idolism, stones represent god as much as you and i do). Krishna in my belief was human with much more godliness than you and me and that by my theory of god ties in very well. so Krishna for me is a manifestation of god, and might i say you are a manifestation of god too but only less significant.

some hindus think that some followers of ISKON do not fully understand what they speak about and sometimes get too carried away by the means and forget the end, somewhat like getting too fussy about the quality and styling of the hand held driller instead of the accuracy of the hole.

some others think that ISKON is an organization based on hierarchies etc, which does not fully tie in with the hindu view of hinduism, that does not have rules or hierarchies.

i personally think that the truth (for me) is to practice ways of increasing the pool of energy in me, such that at some point in space and time, i would be one with god, thus freeing myself of the bondage of space, time etal. that revealation would make me at once you and me and everything else, and help me be there and here at once and be then and now at once, that as far as my revealations go, is a field of whitelight, intense, hot and cold at the same time, which feels like pure love...

:thud:

m: So beloved does that mean that you belive in the impersonal or brahman aspect to the Godhead?m:

 

[Arkangel]

Apologies for the intrusion friends. Jyothi, would you care to discuss this more? I'd be quite interested to talk about this, discussions of this nature are sorely lacking at present!

I know you're not around much, but perhaps we could make a new thread for this?

Since i and Joythi have similar beliefs about God, i think i would start a thread and Joythi could then come and join. My religion may be something, cause i refuse to give it a name, but my views about God stems from Vedantic teachings.

 

[Jyothi]

Sure ChrisP and Arkangel, i would be happy to be on that thread

Moses - i cannot classify my belief into the impersonal god head vs the iconic, as i see that they are all one and the same at the very basic level. my PERCEPTION of the truth is that Krishna was human so also were many of the gods in the hindu pantheon.

 

[ALifetimeToWaitFor....]

sorry this is off topic, but what language is largely spoke and what is writing is used most commonly in hindu circles?